Washington Athiest Sign next to nativity.

[RobinGoodfellow]

You're missing the point. The nativity scene is in a taxpayer-funded public building, not in or at a church, and it's offensive to many because for many atheists and agnostics, Christianity is as obscene as any other religion that advocates magical thinking, horrendous superstition, hatred, removal of civil rights and killing. That's why the athiests'/agnostics' sign is set up in that public building, not in or by a church.

1) Again, my issue isn't that there is a sign, but what that sign is saying. If it was just celebrating the season, then no problem; but by acting as an attack during a season of peace, then it comes off as presumptuous.

2) It's always interesting that the atheists only see what they want to, and ignore any other perspective; isn't that one of the things that you're condemning religion for? But let's ignore that somehow Prop 8 was almost defeated through the help of various churches, because that's not convenient to the argument....

Separation of church and state is an ideal that is far from reality. If they were separate, the church wouldn't pocket its millions of dollars every year in tax-free, subsidized-by-the-state properties.

The tax-free status has been a bugaboo for a lot of years, even for churches. The problem is that the tax-free status is great for most churches, as they have some sort of community outreach program, or other programs to benefit the general community (even the Mormons support more than just Mormons, through Deseret Industries), and that tax-free status helps in that, as well as allowing charitable donations to be tax-deductible.

However, you then have supposed "churches (such as the Moonies and various cults), which have no plan to help any but themselves, and thus take advantage of the tax-free status. It's great when the church or charity acts as a social net for the community, not so much when they do stupid stuff (again, the Mormons are an example here, with the situation re: Prop 8).

Christianity — any religion — should be fought back as hard as Christianity fights to glom itself onto every facet of existence for the unbeliever — and the believer, for that matter.

I don't see this as a problem, at least not as long as the basic philosophy is adhered to. Once it's used to slam someone else, then I think that they need to be slapped down, pointing out the "love another" quotes...He who slams by the quote should be slammed himself by the quote...

If that same building had a miniature mosque with a miniature minaret, complete with a Disney anamatronic iman calling everyone to prayer, you could bet the Christians would be screaming bloody murder.

Yeah, but so would the Moslems; no images of man and all that...But, yeah: They should ask for a message of support during Ramadan.

RG

 

[Alpha1851]

Atheism has become the religion to oppose Christianity. Some atheists create propoganda to spread their message, they meet together to bond as atheists, the fight for a certain agenda, they have little tolerance for those who are not like them and who do not agree them, they ridicule and mock those who won't fall in line behind them, they oppose laws that support their purposes, etc. I find it baffling that some of the these individuals engage in the very same acts they purport to hate. The behave in the same exact manner that they accuse Christians of behaving. They are just as intolerant as they claim Christians are. They are only interested in agenda pushing, just like they claim Christians are. I look for them to create a special holiday to celebrate the gift of Atheism. Go for it, the more vacation days at work, the better.

And, their whole purpose seems to center around fighting Christianity. There's no focus of standing up against the display of Menorahs, or the Star of David. There's no fight to keep a Buddhist from displaying a statute of Buddha. There's no concerted effort to stop a Hindu's from burning their incense on public property. There's no rally cry to keep Scientology's from pushing off their beliefs. There's no intense need to stop Wiccans from wearing their symbols. There's no desire to keep African American's from publicly celebrating Kwanzaa. As long as there isn't a cross involved, it seems to be okay.

I don't agree w/ displaying any sort of religious or anti religious object on public property--especially if it's a govt. building. But, it's obvious that Christianity is the only religion that seems to offend some of the atheists. They aren't concerned w/ the Separation of Church and State. They are merely concerned w/ the Separation of Christianity and State.

 

[Pushover]

Atheism has become the religion to oppose Christianity. Some atheists create propoganda to spread their message, they meet together to bond as atheists, the fight for a certain agenda, they have little tolerance for those who are not like them and who do not agree them, they ridicule and mock those who won't fall in line behind them, they oppose laws that support their purposes, etc. I find it baffling that some of the these individuals engage in the very same acts they purport to hate. The behave in the same exact manner that they accuse Christians of behaving. They are just as intolerant as they claim Christians are. They are only interested in agenda pushing, just like they claim Christians are. I look for them to create a special holiday to celebrate the gift of Atheism. Go for it, the more vacation days at work, the better.

And, their whole purpose seems to center around fighting Christianity. There's no focus of standing up against the display of Menorahs, or the Star of David. There's no fight to keep a Buddhist from displaying a statute of Buddha. There's no concerted effort to stop a Hindu's from burning their incense on public property. There's no rally cry to keep Scientology's from pushing off their beliefs. There's no intense need to stop Wiccans from wearing their symbols. There's no desire to keep African American's from publicly celebrating Kwanzaa. As long as there isn't a cross involved, it seems to be okay.

I don't agree w/ displaying any sort of religious or anti religious object on public property--especially if it's a govt. building. But, it's obvious that Christianity is the only religion that seems to offend some of the atheists. They aren't concerned w/ the Separation of Church and State. They are merely concerned w/ the Separation of Christianity and State.

For the record, I oppose ALL organized religion from making blatant public appearances (that includes Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, and Judaism, to name a few).

Christianity (that includes almost EVERY branch of it, from Mormons to Roman Catholics) seems to bear the brunt of atheist ire because they're so widespread, so riddled with 'obvious' flaws and inconsistencies, and go door to door waking you up on Saturday morning with pamphlets of paper you really don't want, don't need, or don't care about.

Islam is a half step behind Christianity; you can't deny Islamic extremists are annoying as all get out, just as Christian fanatics can be.

Judaism I couldn't care about; they pretty much keep to themselves unless you talk about religion, then they're on you like cotton on Velcro.

I don't see Buddhists going into the street near my house or funeral of a loved one holding signs saying 'God Hates Fags' or 'Burn in Hell'. I don't see Hindus doing this sort of thing, either. As long as they keep to themselves, I don't have a problem with it.

Christianity seems to have this issue with 'pushing it in your face'. They open up missionary schools to convert people all the time and all over the world (look at many of the remote regions of the world and you'll see real scars of Christianity's presence on their culture and history). They go door to door with their bible thumping. They have to have their own separate genres of music just for them. They have a pope that sits in a foreign city lobbying foreign policy while interfering in politics when he is supposed to keep his mind on secular things. They have this fixation that everyone is here to be saved or converted. They follow a book written thousands of years ago and expect it to make sense and fit into a modern day society. They've taken dozens of holidays and polluted them beyond their original meanings and properties, just to gain a few more seats in the pews at Mass.

I don't see other religions doing these things; just Christianity.

 

[Pushover]

I propose an end to this.

Let's ban Christmas altogether like Cromwell did.

Why?

Because I am a lifeless humorless killjoy atheist.

Of course. We all are. We're just cynical, sinful, lost people that need to be saved, but we refuse to listen because we're just evil.

 

[Pushover]

No. From my general observation I would just say misguided and mean spirited.

We're only misguided because we don't fall in line with the other lambs (haha, I made a religious joke) to the slaughterhouse of heaven.

 

[frankfrank]

Yeah, but I don't think the Pagans gave out presents. I want to keep the presents.

I'd rather have the futures, but I don't feel that I know very much about buying commodities on the market.