We do them no favors...

[peeonme]

I hear cries of equality these days. Women that don't get the same pay or get passed over for promotions.

I speak from personal experience when I say that many women are treated as fragile delicate beings that should be pampered as almost kept as a pet.

I married my wife over 40 years ago, she was born with a mild case of cerebral palsy, from day one I saw her as equal, yes, I am better at math and cared for the books and handled the money. She loved yard work and mowed the lawn, raked the leaves and worked the flower beds. It drover her mother and some neighbors crazy.

She helped me remodel a few bathrooms and kitchens and build some decks and sheds. She was thrilled to do things that she was "protected" from as a child, because of her sex and her c.p., I also taught her to drive.

So when the old lady next door asked me to change some florescent lights i didn't mind doing it, until her daughter who is in her 40's showed up after I had gone home.
They believe that "girls" shouldn't shovel snow, rake leaves, cut grass and apparently change lights.

My mothers family was the same way, females didn't even drive. While they resented their controlling husbands (you never heard the end of it!) at the same time they loved being "kept".

Do you still go with "ladies first"? What about holding doors? If we go to war, should they see combat?
Where does equality start and stop? or should it just be equality period, open your own damn door!

 

[HoodedRat]

I'm believe in equality. I treat women just as badly as I treat men. There are no concessions just for simply having a vagina.

 

[Cormac135]

I open doors for both women and men if they're oldies.

If they do the same level of work as men they deserve the same pay.

 

[star-warrior]

I think some things which are out of courtesy should apply to everyone. So holding a door for someone about to come in after you is fine, whether they're female or not. As for helping someone in need, then it depends on if they really do need the help. When folks say you're a guy so you shouldn't cook, clean, iron, sew, knit etc, or a woman doesn't get tools out to change the fuse or lightbulb then you're enabling a set of excuses for laziness or privilege which I think is disdainful.

Even Queen Elizabeth II is a trained car mechanic when she pitched in with the war effort in WW2. There's no fucking excuse whatsoever.

 

[HoodedRat]

I open doors and/or hold them open for anyone and everyone.

 

[zoltanspawn]

When I first started waiting tables I made a point to disregard gender when taking the first order.

I think that lasted about a week.

It's 'ladies first' about 99% of the time.

Customers practically insist on it.

I think it's weird, but I follow along.

Here in progressive Portland.

 

[rareboy]

I open doors for both women and men if they're oldies.

If they do the same level of work as men they deserve the same pay.

This.

Everyone deserves courtesy.

And coming from a family where the women were full, equal partners in the household...I cannot imagine that women and men should not be considered equal in every respect...bearing in mind that all of us have varying degrees of physical capabilities, intellectual abilities and talents.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

I hold the door if someone is close enough to warrant me holding it. I also equally call them a cunt if they don't say thanks and walk by as if I am there to do that for them.

 

[Kahaih]

When I first started waiting tables I made a point to disregard gender when taking the first order.

I think that lasted about a week.

It's 'ladies first' about 99% of the time.

Customers practically insist on it.

I think it's weird, but I follow along.

Here in progressive Portland.

That seems easy enough, as most will pause/yield to whomever they feel should go first.

But, how do you decide/read the table when it comes time for someone to be presented with the bill? Does someone always step up/make the request? Do you look to see who made the reservations?

Does it ever seem like much more of a drama/production when a woman insists on paying?

Have you ever seen women act offended when the bill is presented to a man first?

 

[zoltanspawn]

That seems easy enough, as most will pause/yield to whomever they feel should go first.

But, how do you decide/read the table when it comes time for someone to be presented with the bill? Does someone always step up/make the request? Do you look to see who made the reservations?

Does it ever seem like much more of a drama/production when a woman insists on paying?

Have you ever seen women act offended when the bill is presented to a man first?

Bills are presented to the table, not to a specific person, unless someone makes a request for it.

Customers will sometimes try to involve their server in arguments over who receives it. A server should never get involved in that dispute. This doesn't seem to happen along gender lines, but by people who lack social skills.

 

[Kahaih]

^Seems a tricky business, though.

One must be very careful not to set the bill too close to any one in particular, I'd think.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Often, the one paying already took some lead in asking about the menu, soliciting service, etc. It's not usually that hard to tell who's paying.

 

[Laboyes]

I grew up with powerful females in my life. My sister is easily the strongest out of my siblings (probably physically as well as emotionally). I realized that my mother clearly "wore the pants" when I was still living with my parents. I still get to watch them let the male counterparts in their relationships speak over them.

Particularly when a society has been founded upon them, implicit biases are hard to just get over.

 

[Rickrock]

I grew up when women were women and men were men and liked it that way, so it was a little hard for me to change and others changed at different paces so it was difficult to tell how to act in any one situation. I generally now treat everyone equally but also do what seems natural at the time. I'll hold doors open for anyone nearby and believe that men and women should be paid equally for doing the same work. I still prefer that women take the lead in doing housework although it depends on the people's abilities and time demands.

 

[peeonme]

When I mentioned the door, of course it's only polite to hold it open and not release it in someone's face. I was referring to when a male and female both reach the door at the same time. Maybe they know each other or maybe not, but I was taught to always open the door and let the lady enter first.
If we are all equal, without thoughts of the "weaker sex", should this still be protocol?

As for the equal pay for equal work issue, it should apply to all employees. But what i saw when i worked were issues of seniority, someone has been with the company for 10 years and because of that he or she gets an extra amount hourly for the same work.

Then when it comes to pay, at times an employer is desperate when the labor market is tight and has to cough up more than he is paying his current workers to get a person to take the job. In my line of work if you hired in when the economy took a shit and you were out of work then the employer had you where he wanted you and you took the job for a few dollars an hour less then you would in a good economy, then surprise! a year goes by and he is hiring people in for more than he pays you.

I have been the new guy who got more and the old guy who got fucked. In most if not all tool shops openly talking wages could be a reason for dismissal.

The work place is unfair, I don't know if a law will fix it. What do you do when 10 employees all doing the same type of work all make different wages? The employer can simply say that they have different skill sets and some do more complicated work than others.

The point of my op on this was that many women that i have dealt with have led sheltered lives, no idea about how to change a fuse.
When my dad died my mother had no clue about how to balance a check book or even write a check.
If equality is the name of the game, then it might be time for some to man up... go change that light bulb and learn how to check your oil or put air in a tire.

 

[Kahaih]

^I'm guessing you've never heard the phrase, 'power of the patch'.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Unfortunately seniority is a plague that will be in the work force for a very long time because people feel entitled for their time rather then what they can do.

As for all employees all doing the same work and making different wages, outside of one of the factors that you named that doesn't mean that they are doing the same amount of work, have good work ethic, show up on time, etc,etc. Unfortuanely even in my short amount of experience in the work force (13+ years), there are plenty of people who skate on by who think they do more or owed more.

And as for your view on women, you seem to be going by your own experiences a bit too much. Some of the best Managers I have worked with have been women, both in terms of Managing and actual working. And there have been men who couldn't even handle doing a work schedule or a Manager who worked in Photo shops when he was younger but apparently couldn't begin to handle a simple photo machine at my old place of work.

It goes with either gender when it comes to "manning up."

Also you are holding women accountable for a society norm that was created by men through out pretty much all of history. You can't expect them all to just turn around and see the light in a day. Especially when society itself is still trying to hold them back and are succceeding in doing so.

 

[peeonme]

Unfortunately seniority is a plague that will be in the work force for a very long time because people feel entitled for their time rather then what they can do.

As for all employees all doing the same work and making different wages, outside of one of the factors that you named that doesn't mean that they are doing the same amount of work, have good work ethic, show up on time, etc,etc. Unfortuanely even in my short amount of experience in the work force (13+ years), there are plenty of people who skate on by who think they do more or owed more.

And as for your view on women, you seem to be going by your own experiences a bit too much. Some of the best Managers I have worked with have been women, both in terms of Managing and actual working. And there have been men who couldn't even handle doing a work schedule or a Manager who worked in Photo shops when he was younger but apparently couldn't begin to handle a simple photo machine at my old place of work.

It goes with either gender when it comes to "manning up."

Also you are holding women accountable for a society norm that was created by men through out pretty much all of history. You can't expect them all to just turn around and see the light in a day. Especially when society itself is still trying to hold them back and are succceeding in doing so.

You make some very good points, you also point to my issue, am I adding to their problems by checking their oil, changing light bulbs...
and the list goes on? Am I treating them as equals? I understand lifting or carrying heavy objects, heck, I have asked younger stronger guys to help me.
I do point a lot to my own experience, when I hear "girls (meaning young women) can't rake leaves", I want to ask where that is found in the Bible? Or, were they born with no hands or arms?
I don't go with gender specific work, I had a woman show me how to put a roof on a garage back in the '90's, I am good at cooking,
so I don't want to hear "that's for woman" or visa versa.

 

[Kahaih]

So, what this is all about, really, is your [self-imposed?] guilt trip over your neighbour's flooring.

Let it go.

 

[SaskGuy]

So-called "women's work" and "men's work" are both valuable life skills. I don't see a problem with a man cooking supper, or a woman fixing things; both men and women should know how to do all these things.

For example, if someone is going to own a car, they should at least know basic maintenance, whether it be a man or a woman.