"We got rid of the homeless people"...

[swerve]

I was talking with a friend of mine in Florida this morning...

And amongst FUN topics like the Strip Club in Ft Lauderdale, beaches, etc...

He declared that the Farmers Market near Pompano Beach (where I would NORMALLY park when visiting) has been CLEANED UP!!!

He said that Florida's NEW GOVERNOR has RID the farmers market of Prostitutes, Drug Dealers, Homeless People, and trucks that aren't there for delivery purposes...

What caught MY attention -- was the Homeless People...

How do you GET RID of them???

I mean -- THEY are PEOPLE TOO!!!

Do they all now have HOMES???

Probably NOT!!!

BUT -- I'm curious -- what happens to the homeless people when ENTIRE CITIES RID themselves of them???

It used to be, when I was growing up (and I'm sure to some extent it exists today), that religious and charitable organizations took them in and helped them get back up on their feet -- Today, I know there are shelters and such -- but they don't really make them NOT homeless anymore -- it is more like they FACILITATE their lifestyle choice while aiding them at the same time...

It just REALLY BOTHERS me that a community can think it is a GOOD THING to RID themselves of PEOPLE -- HUMAN BEINGS JUST LIKE YOU AND ME...

Does anyone here have any ideas or solutions that ACTUALLY HELPS these people LONG TERM???

I've actually met MANY homeless people and have been FASCINATED with their stories and spent the day with several of them -- they're NOT BAD PEOPLE -- just in a rough spot...

 

[BearBoi]

BUT -- I'm curious -- what happens to the homeless people when ENTIRE CITIES RID themselves of them???

They give them one way bus tickets to a larger city. (Literally or figuratively.)

It just REALLY BOTHERS me that a community can think it is a GOOD THING to RID themselves of PEOPLE -- HUMAN BEINGS JUST LIKE YOU AND ME... ]

The wording was unfortunate, but the fact remains that large amounts of homeless people are a burden on the social service infrastructures of cities all over the world.

Most social service systems were created to maintain a balance of need within the city; people pay taxes, lose their jobs, need social help, and the services were paid for by a portion of the taxes to provide that. Charitable organizations, all tax exempt, did similar work on a voluntary basis.

However, when a city becomes the "go to" destination for homeless migrants, it cannot sustain the increase in demand. These people do not pay taxes, and have never paid taxes in that city, yet they are benefiting from the services other people's taxes provide. Something has got to give, and it usually starts with public resentment when more and more citizens cannot get access to the services they need and pay for.

Does anyone here have any ideas or solutions that ACTUALLY HELPS these people LONG TERM???

Homelessness comes from a wide variety of issues, and requires a wide variety of solutions. For example; adult literacy and education, drug rehabilitation, better access to child care services so people can work full time, debt management skill training and consolidation, the list goes on.

These services do exist in most developed cities, but again, it is a supply vs. demand issue. The solution would seem to be more money to establish more programs to help more homeless, which will bring in more homeless needing programs (not to discount actual citizens who've paid for the programs and might need them), and on and on and on in a vicious circle.

I've actually met MANY homeless people and have been FASCINATED with their stories and spent the day with several of them -- they're NOT BAD PEOPLE -- just in a rough spot...

I don't think anybody is suggesting they are 'bad', just an increasing drain on an already overly-taxed support system that our societies were never designed to accommodate -- especially when localized into major urban areas.

 

[fetaby]

I wish we could change the way we think about them. Change the situation from being a problem to being a challenge. Stop treating them as animals and start treating them as people. They become a resource instead of a drain of resources. But we aren't meant to take care of each other, only ourselves.

 

[rareboy]

A lot of communities have 'sanitized' themselves by shipping their homeless to other communities.

The thing is, the stain on the soul of communities that do this is so dark and ugly that it will never come clean.

 

[pat grimshaw]

…Stop treating them as animals and start treating them as people…

I don't have the time nor the money to do that. Someone else can do that. I don't want them in my street. Who does?

 

[rareboy]

^ And so it goes.

The streets might be clean but what does it matter if they are populated by people with withered hearts and no compassion.

 

[pat grimshaw]

^ And so it goes.

 

[HoodedRat]

Just wrote out a lengthy post about my experience of how easy it is to suddenly be made homeless ... then I thought ... fuck it, this is JUB, why waste my time.

 

[frankfrank]

A lot of communities have 'sanitized' themselves by shipping their homeless to other communities.

The thing is, the stain on the soul of communities that do this is so dark and ugly that it will never come clean.

Or the stain on the soul of Reaganomics. In the early 1980's when the mental institutions almost all closed (because Reaganomics didn't give a damn about the mentally ill, let them be on their own), I had two friends who worked in one.

Patients (who had become their friends) were bawling out of fear of what would happen to them, with no place to go, after merely being given $50 and a bus ticket (one way) to Chicago.

I believe that my two friends knew for a fact that some of these people simply died in the gutter, or from neglect, just as they had feared. to this day there are almost no resources whatsoever in the United States for mental healthcare, unless you have *TONS* of money for it.

 

[fetaby]

I don't have the time nor the money to do that. Someone else can do that. I don't want them in my street. Who does?

Not I don't want them to be homeless, just I don't want them in my street.... noted.

It takes no money and no time to question the way you think.

 

[BearBoi]

I think we need to draw a distinct line between homeless people who’ve lost their ability to be self-sustaining – yet who want the opportunity to change – and “homeless” people.

As to the latter, I am specifically speaking of the migrating “homeless” who descend on my fair city en mass every summer to swam pedestrians, get in people’s way on the street, bitch you out if you dare to ignore their attempts to tell you a story about needing money for gas, and leap into traffic with every red light (3-5 at a time, at least) going window-to-window asking for change.

This summer alone, several citizens have been physically attacked and required emergency medical treatment as a result of pan handlers not getting what they asked for.

At night, they go back to their tent cities and light bonfires in our public parks and beaches, and get drunk and wasted on drugs.

I don’t consider this type of person “homeless”. Many of them are healthy young adults who are enjoying “a fun summer adventure.” For a couple years I knew a girl who lived under a bridge. Her family owned a chain of restaurants in a small town, but she thumbed her way into the big city and lived on the street for kicks.

These people don’t tend to be a problem in small towns and communities. They don’t go there. They are usually trying to get away from there. This tends to be a “big city problem.”

A friend of mine once drove a lady to an abused women’s shelter (he didn’t know her very well, but she begged for a ride and had bruises on her face) but the shelter was filled up with “homeless” people. They were all teenagers, laughing and joking around. Sadly, the shelter had been designated an “overflow” center by the local youth shelter, so actual abused women had nowhere to go.

These people are parasites.

Real homeless people are not. Most of them need help and would be glad to get it.

A lot of communities have 'sanitized' themselves by shipping their homeless to other communities.

I live in one of those cities.

The thing is, the stain on the soul of communities that do this is so dark and ugly that it will never come clean.

Most small cities and towns don’t have the resources to deal with large numbers of homeless, though they try their best. They are no heartless monsters. This isn't a black/white issue. When it becomes too large a situation to deal with on their own, what else can they do? These small towns are largely ignored by the government, their funding is reduced every year, and their own citizens are often living near the poverty line.

I cannot hate them for sending their homeless to large cities they think are better equipped and funded to address those peoples diverse needs. However, now that these large cities are out of room and funding, what do we do as more and more show up?

There seems to be a lot of judgement and few answers.

 

[rareboy]

Don't bother expecting the pathologically self-obsessed or those suffering from a racial or economic superiority complex to have any sympathy for the homeless.

Only those with a good heart and those who have been on the street themselves understand what it is like to be on the streets...often as result of circumstances beyond your own control.

 

[metta]

I live against a national forest and there are homeless people that live in it. The police occasionally pull them out of there. It is a pretty dangerous place to live without shelter.

Locally, there are organizations that do work to find them places to live, food, and even help find them jobs. However, many of them just seem to end up back in the forest. They say that love living in it. They don't have the stress of having to pay for housing. I noticed that some of them actually have jobs and just go back into the forest each evening.

We have had a few problems with them due to some of them not being mentally stable. The last time police got them out of there, they found a hot tub wired to some electrical lines and a full camp set up.

Around 2 years ago, I had a helicopter looking for hours on the hill behind me around 3 am in the morning. Turns out one of the homeless got bitten by a rattlesnake and he used his cell phone to call for help.

Honestly, I would prefer it if they would not live in the forest around me. I don't appreciate the problems it causes...like breaking into the community bathrooms and rubbing feces all over the floor and mirrors.

The police have said that who these people are varies...many are mentally ill (thank you Reagan)....some have warrants for their arrest on them...some just like living there.

 

[metta]

Or the stain on the soul of Reaganomics. In the early 1980's when the mental institutions almost all closed (because Reaganomics didn't give a damn about the mentally ill, let them be on their own), I had two friends who worked in one.

Patients (who had become their friends) were bawling out of fear of what would happen to them, with no place to go, after merely being given $50 and a bus ticket (one way) to Chicago.

I believe that my two friends knew for a fact that some of these people simply died in the gutter, or from neglect, just as they had feared. to this day there are almost no resources whatsoever in the United States for mental healthcare, unless you have *TONS* of money for it.

I'm glad that people remember this. It is important to remember this. It should be emphasized every time they try to make Reagan a Republican God.

 

[BearBoi]

Only those with a good heart and those who have been on the street themselves understand what it is like to be on the streets...often as result of circumstances beyond your own control.

I’ve outlined what I think of the situation, including detailed economic examples as to why the issue of homelessness exists and why it isn’t getting any better.

I’ve also expressed an understanding from the other end of the spectrum; trying to live in a major city with a large (and growing) homeless population all demanding the best our [ever increasing] tax-funded social service programs have to offer. A recent poll suggests that upwards of 70% are not native to the city.

I know people who have lived and died while waiting to get access to social support programs that always run out of money; people who were born and raised in this city, lived here all their lives, paid into those very support systems that no longer had room to help them when they needed it the most.

So, what’s your solution?

Dispensing judgement is easy, RareBoy. Now you get to have a meaningful say.

If you’ve lived on the street, what would have helped you? How could the local government have improved your situation? What about the federal government? Which social programs did you find the most useful? What charitable organizations did you find the most supportive? Perhaps when JUB members next donate to charity they will support these programs.

Now is your chance to address the members of JUB with some real suggestions that might affect positive change in the world. Who knows? Maybe members of your local government are reading this right now while waiting for the latest Broke Straight Boys to finish streaming.

 

[PreTTy PeTe]

A lot of communities have 'sanitized' themselves by shipping their homeless to other communities.

The thing is, the stain on the soul of communities that do this is so dark and ugly that it will never come clean.

The streets might be clean but what does it matter if they are populated by people with withered hearts and no compassion.

So true........

 

[HoodedRat]

Or the stain on the soul of Reaganomics. In the early 1980's when the mental institutions almost all closed (because Reaganomics didn't give a damn about the mentally ill, let them be on their own), I had two friends who worked in one.

Patients (who had become their friends) were bawling out of fear of what would happen to them, with no place to go, after merely being given $50 and a bus ticket (one way) to Chicago.

I believe that my two friends knew for a fact that some of these people simply died in the gutter, or from neglect, just as they had feared. to this day there are almost no resources whatsoever in the United States for mental healthcare, unless you have *TONS* of money for it.

The UK went much the same way under the iron jackboot of Thatcher's evil regime.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

I live against a national forest and there are homeless people that live in it. The police occasionally pull them out of there. It is a pretty dangerous place to live without shelter.

Locally, there are organizations that do work to find them places to live, food, and even help find them jobs. However, many of them just seem to end up back in the forest. They say that love living in it. They don't have the stress of having to pay for housing. I noticed that some of them actually have jobs and just go back into the forest each evening.

We have had a few problems with them due to some of them not being mentally stable. The last time police got them out of there, they found a hot tub wired to some electrical lines and a full camp set up.

Around 2 years ago, I had a helicopter looking for hours on the hill behind me around 3 am in the morning. Turns out one of the homeless got bitten by a rattlesnake and he used his cell phone to call for help.

Honestly, I would prefer it if they would not live in the forest around me. I don't appreciate the problems it causes...like breaking into the community bathrooms and rubbing feces all over the floor and mirrors.

The police have said that who these people are varies...many are mentally ill (thank you Reagan)....some have warrants for their arrest on them...some just like living there.

whole cultures a builts by mentallys unstables ans make more um inda millions alls suckin cornflakes
so point out few folkys in da trees kind a pips

ans internet 2 where degrees ans so on float their cargos round ans round ta da same 100 great ans true

-


oy united nations of unstables ya betta hurry fins ya milk ans weed yaselfs back ta

 

[rareboy]

I’ve outlined what I think of the situation, including detailed economic examples as to why the issue of homelessness exists and why it isn’t getting any better.

I’ve also expressed an understanding from the other end of the spectrum; trying to live in a major city with a large (and growing) homeless population all demanding the best our [ever increasing] tax-funded social service programs have to offer. A recent poll suggests that upwards of 70% are not native to the city.

I know people who have lived and died while waiting to get access to social support programs that always run out of money; people who were born and raised in this city, lived here all their lives, paid into those very support systems that no longer had room to help them when they needed it the most.

So, what’s your solution?

Dispensing judgement is easy, RareBoy. Now you get to have a meaningful say.

If you’ve lived on the street, what would have helped you? How could the local government have improved your situation? What about the federal government? Which social programs did you find the most useful? What charitable organizations did you find the most supportive? Perhaps when JUB members next donate to charity they will support these programs.

Now is your chance to address the members of JUB with some real suggestions that might affect positive change in the world. Who knows? Maybe members of your local government are reading this right now while waiting for the latest Broke Straight Boys to finish streaming.

Well, let's start with some facts, shall we?

Between 2006 and 2009, the number of homeless in Toronto fell by 51%, so why you think the city is being overrun says more about your own fears and perceptions than reality.

And Toronto didn't do it by handing people a bus ticket to somewhere else.

I know how this worked because I was one of those who helped champion the strategy there and in other communities around Toronto.

Secondly, having worked with the issue and with the organizations and government branches that deal with the issues of the homeless, I can guarantee you that they are not 'demanding' anything. In fact, it is wicked hard to get many of these people to come in for any kind of assistance at all. And this can be most problematic for people with health issues or in need of medications because it means they are always on the crisis management end of the primary health delivery spectrum.

I know Ontario and Toronto as well and I suspect better than you do.

I frankly do not believe your assertion that there are local government support services that run out of money and that people have died because of it. What are these programs? What were the local taxpayers expected to fund that the Ministry of Health and Long Term Care or the Ministry of Social Services or the Department of Indian Affairs are not funding. What programs have these people been paying into via their local tax dollars that they are not getting their money's worth out of?
Tell me.

Again, the biggest issue with some of our homeless is that they fall off the grid and become disconnected form accessing the support payments they need.

And many of these people have mental illness issues that contribute to this isolation and this disconnect with the system.

So what do I think we need? A continuation of the Homes First strategy. More outreach programs and support from CAMH and other mental health care service providers, More co-ordinated efforts to ensure the homeless are counted and can be accounted for, more support for organizations like the Salvation Army who provide a vast amount of help for the homeless in Toronto, more support from caring people for shelters for women and children fleeing abusive relationships, more support for the homeless gay youth who come to the city from places where they still do not receive the kind of support and validation they need.

I don't need to have local governments or even provincial governments read what I have to say on the subject of homelessness in our communities on this site or any other site. I have other avenues for bringing concerns and ideas in front of them.

But what I hope will happen here is that all of the terrified nimbys who have a mindset that the homeless are somehow sub-human or the equivalent of garbage to be brushed up and out of sight will maybe give their heads a shake.

So how about it. You tell me which social services supported at the local government level have short changed the citizens of their city and I'll pursue this.

But listen to me and hear this clearly. I actually don't give a shit whether some person was actually born in the city or not when it comes to providing support and care.

Finally, I can guarantee that you are not going to wipe out teenage homelessness or teens and young adults coming to the city to make their way or to party. It was the same way in the 60's the 70's the 80's and the 90's. The fact is, that when parents, education systems and the economy fail the average kid, they are going to end up on the streets, usually in a city where there is a better chance of finding something.

Want to solve that? Bring back manufacturing work, increase construction jobs and stop streamlining the economy to the point where you have a huge percentage of a generation with no hope of getting employment in their own communities.

 

[pat grimshaw]

@ post#25

Eleanor and I are thankful that this Toronto 'strategy' rightly acknowledges the work of the Salvation Army.