Well Aren't They Shithole Countries ?

[Alistair]

Except that the discussion was about immigration. It wasn't a discussion about shithole countries, it was a discussion about allowing immigrants from shithole countries.


You forgot Outer Hebrides.

But that's not what the OP asked. He stated his question isn't about the people, but the country itself.

 

[Alistair]

Loads of countries are complete shitholes, that's why so many of their inhabitants want to immigrate to the somewhat less shithole countries.

Exactly

 

[NotHardUp1]

But that's not what the OP asked. He stated his question isn't about the people, but the country itself.

Undefining words is trickery, not honesty.

How can a country be separate from its people? A country is not mere geography. It is government, culture, laws, religion, and many other things.

If the president had said some country was an agricultural shithole, prone to droughts, locusts, and famine, no one would have batted an eye. But he didn't. He described multiple countries as shitholes in a swath, indicting them collectively and indiscriminately. He did it paired with praise of Norway. Collectively, that made his remarks reprehensible.

There should be no soft serve version of the president's slam. We should not adopt the term nor normalize it. I'm fine with any people calling their own country a shithole, as it is their own culture and government. I'm not fine with my head of state using the term for other nations, as he speaks for us and I do not believe we want to condemn those countries.

 

[JerryPic]

Charon, can you make a thread of its own about Mexico?

Mexico. The cartels have turned the country into hell

The majority of Mexico.

 

[JohnnyAnger]

Okay i'm being a little bit severe on Glasgow, there are some magnificent places among the dross.

Can you imagine wanting to visit in the past though? Not sure on swerve's age - but imagine wanting to go to 60s Glasgow with razor gangs and tenements (I say that as a fan of the city as well).

 

[Pierresro]

The Unied States is the most racist country n Earth it always has been. As an American Vet i will never set foot in it as long as its right wing is in charge. That includes the Idiot and Chief Trump

 

[Alistair]

Undefining words is trickery, not honesty.

How can a country be separate from its people? A country is not mere geography. It is government, culture, laws, religion, and many other things.

If the president had said some country was an agricultural shithole, prone to droughts, locusts, and famine, no one would have batted an eye. But he didn't. He described multiple countries as shitholes in a swath, indicting them collectively and indiscriminately. He did it paired with praise of Norway. Collectively, that made his remarks reprehensible.

There should be no soft serve version of the president's slam. We should not adopt the term nor normalize it. I'm fine with any people calling their own country a shithole, as it is their own culture and government. I'm not fine with my head of state using the term for other nations, as he speaks for us and I do not believe we want to condemn those countries.

PC bullshit and you know it. Do you want to live in Ethiopia? Columbia? Russia? No you don't because they are shithole countries. There's nothing wrong with the people there, and you know when I say people I mean the mass population not warlords and the government. The OP made no reference to Trump, you're the one that brought that in.

 

[NotHardUp1]

The OP wouldn't be raising the term shithole countries if it were not for the president. It's not possible to have the discussion without the present shitstorm surrounding the president's use of shithole countries. The OP made implicit reference to the president's remark in his title's wording, a response to Trump's comment even.

All respect for others can be dismissed as PC, but that doesn't remove respect from being respect. Everything is not reducible to the lowest, meanest, basest denominator, and certainly not as rationalization for anything goes.

A country is as I have stated, a collective of its people, their culture, their government, their production, their religion, and every other thing that comprises their identity. Dismissing an entire country as a shithole is wrong, and no amount of equivocation changes that.

By "knowing what I mean," you don't remove the actual words and their actual meaning. Redefining them doesn't cut it. Sorry.

The president's remarks were offensive. Elevating their acceptance is unacceptable. Speaking about other countries in that vein is unacceptable. Alleging that "everyone" thinks like that is simply untrue.

I don't want to live in Canada, or Britain, but I wouldn't judge either as an undesirable country, just not one I want to live in. That test is not the measure of a "shithole country."

 

[Dominus]

I think everyone is focusing too much on the word shithole and completely lost sight of what Trump actually said that is so wrong. He wanted immigrants from countries like Norway and not from shithole countries.

The problem with this way of thinking is those countries are shithole countries not because of lack of talents but because of political and cultural attitudes that do not value talents. By cutting off immigrants from a whole area of people like that, we are effectively cutting off talents from those regions.

Nothing speaks louder than a personal account.

 

[Latimer]

The president wants immigrants who are easily assimilated, not prone to violence, who will not be on the public dole, and who will contribute to the gross national product and pay taxes. At the end of the day, it is far more likely that an immigrant from Finland or Japan will fit the profile than, say, Senegal or Pakistan. We wouldn't be having this discussion if it weren't for the problems associated with large numbers of Islamic immigrants and refugees into Europe both recently and over the last decades. Sweden is a perfect example: lax and generous immigration policies in Sweden have led to increases in crime and a decrease in the quality of life for many middle-class ethnic Swedes in cities with large Muslim populations. I think it would be hard to find any ethnic Swede who believes that his or her country is better off now or will be in the future from immigration. There is a real danger that in three generations Sweden will cease to be Swedish. Shared history and culture matter. Some histories and cultures are superior to others. Some places are more civilized than others.

Mr. Trump was asking a valid question in a rude and obscene manner. I doubt there would be this firestorm of criticism had Mrs. Clinton asked the same question in a more decorous way.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

The reason why so many people are angry at Trump for calling other countries "shitholes" or "hellholes" (a year earlier, about Brussels) is that the USA itself is quite a shithole in certain respects: health care, education, mobility and violence are just four things in which the USA is not on the level of a single other developed country, and sometimes even below a lot of developing nations.

It has the world's most overpriced health care; the lousiest primary and secondary education in all of the OECD and the most overpriced universities to boot; the most erratic public transport, outside of a few pockets, the least developed railway system, and no high-speed railways worthy of the name (which starts at 150 mph to the standards of Asia and Europe); and finally the highest imaginable murder rate combined with unacceptably frequent extrajudicial killings by policemen, who are rarely punished for what they do wrong.

A few countries may score worse than the USA on one of these four points, but none score worse on all four unless the USA has recently invaded them.

 

[Latimer]

^
You are correct on all counts. AND YET THEY STILL KEEP COMING, sometimes risking their lives to do so. And once settled in, they even invite their families to join them! IF IT'S SO BAD HERE, MOST OF THEM CAN ALWAYS RETURN HOME.

 

[HoodedRat]

Lots of places in Europe are rapidly becoming shithole countries; England, France, Germany, Sweden, etc, etc; I wonder why?

 

[Telstra]

The OP wouldn't be raising the term shithole countries if it were not for the president. It's not possible to have the discussion without the present shitstorm surrounding the president's use of shithole countries. The OP made implicit reference to the president's remark in his title's wording, a response to Trump's comment even.

All respect for others can be dismissed as PC, but that doesn't remove respect from being respect. Everything is not reducible to the lowest, meanest, basest denominator, and certainly not as rationalization for anything goes.

A country is as I have stated, a collective of its people, their culture, their government, their production, their religion, and every other thing that comprises their identity. Dismissing an entire country as a shithole is wrong, and no amount of equivocation changes that.

By "knowing what I mean," you don't remove the actual words and their actual meaning. Redefining them doesn't cut it. Sorry.

The president's remarks were offensive. Elevating their acceptance is unacceptable. Speaking about other countries in that vein is unacceptable. Alleging that "everyone" thinks like that is simply untrue.

I don't want to live in Canada, or Britain, but I wouldn't judge either as an undesirable country, just not one I want to live in. That test is not the measure of a "shithole country."

In the real world thats how people speak.
In Pakistan, they say this country or that country is shit holes all the time.
I'm sure in the US, the average people also say this or that country is shit hole.

 

[Charon]

Charon, can you make a thread of its own about Mexico?

I'd love to. But I'm not eloquent enough, nor do I know enough big words to create a serious thread about a country's culture. That's NotHardUp1's job.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

^
You are correct on all counts. AND YET THEY STILL KEEP COMING, sometimes risking their lives to do so. And once settled in, they even invite their families to join them! IF IT'S SO BAD HERE, MOST OF THEM CAN ALWAYS RETURN HOME.

The USA is not bad compared to where they come from. That doesn't mean it's all sweetness and light, though.

If you're an illiterate peasant fleeing a jungle village ravaged by civil war, you won't mind the lousy schools, inexistent health care, lack of buses and high murder rate. But if you're from, hehe, Norway, then you will. It's no coincidence Trump mentioned Norway. He knows how the USA compares to Norway.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

Lots of places in Europe are rapidly becoming shithole countries; England, France, Germany, Sweden, etc, etc; I wonder why?

France, Germany and Sweden are very nice countries to live in. The UK is going down fast, but what else can you expect? Their population has a very bad reputation all over Europe: they are dumb uniglots who work little and drink too much, and get very aggressive over absolutely nothing. As one German hotel owner puts it: "the Brits are like the Russians, except the Russians speak better English!"

 

[heir-to-the-wind]

Shitholes are the southern states that formed the confederacy.

 

[Telstra]

All right, i'll defined shit hole countries clearly.
Ordinary people who want to leave their countries and do not want to come back ... they are from shit hole countries.

 

[gsdx]

^ That definition would make every single country in the world a shithole country, including Australia.