Well Aren't They Shithole Countries ?

[belamyi]

Or already happening elsewhere?

No, I didn't mean what is happening and will LEAD to it, but what will happen, what will HAVE HAPPENED after the mirage of recovery (yes, I know about the greening - instead of moulding - of some places in the past five years or so), the foretaste being, again, the result, not the causes of it:

Imagine that, and worse, in major cities around, in a few decades time.

 

[peeonme]

The city is improving. There's a lot of techies moving in. The real estate is cheap and there's a gentrification effort going on. Houses than can't be remodeled are being torn down and some of the land is being recaptured for agricultural use.

The bigger challenge is going to be rebuilding a functional government. There was a period of shocking abuse- nepotism, extramarital affairs, graft, corruption- that led to the state of Michigan taking control of the city in 2013. The governor appointed a city manager- Kevyn Orr- who promptly put the city into bankrupty. Mr Orr was a lawyer and his law firm was selected as the legal representative for the city (purely coincidental, I'm sure). The city ended bankruptcy in 2014 and is still struggling to recover.

In 2014 the people of Detroit decided that they had enough of politics as usual and elected Mike Duggan. What was amazing is that he was a write in candidate in the first round of voting and ran against a well known figure in the main event.
He was just reelected after being challenged by Coleman Young's son.

When the local news reports a problem the city is quick and functional to act in dealing with it. I have lived in Detroit 3 times and am proud to be a Detroiter.

 

[KaraBulut]

...When the local news reports a problem the city is quick and functional to act in dealing with it. I have lived in Detroit 3 times and am proud to be a Detroiter.

I like Detroit, even though I was in the area during the Kwame Kilpatrick scandals. It's a nice city with nice people. Miserable winters, though.

When you see the pictures like those that belamo linked above, it's a shame the great days of Detroit have passed and so much of the past has been lost to urban blight and decay.

 

[Alistair]

In 2014 the people of Detroit decided that they had enough of politics as usual and elected Mike Duggan. What was amazing is that he was a write in candidate in the first round of voting and ran against a well known figure in the main event.
He was just reelected after being challenged by Coleman Young's son.

When the local news reports a problem the city is quick and functional to act in dealing with it. I have lived in Detroit 3 times and am proud to be a Detroiter.

Part of the problem is when it takes reporting by the local news to force something to get done. Neighborhoods complain about run down properties, drug houses and crimes but it's hard to get anything done. That's not just Detroit but every larger city.

 

[peeonme]

Part of the problem is when it takes reporting by the local news to force something to get done. Neighborhoods complain about run down properties, drug houses and crimes but it's hard to get anything done. That's not just Detroit but every larger city.

The people are used to dropping a dime to the news because in times past that's what it took. What the news doesn't report on is how many problems were fixed without their reporting.

 

[frankfrank]

I WAS convinced that there was a good chance that Detroit is on the way to recovery...but, NOW, how will that happen with the rulers we have in Washington?

Detroit's recovery was definitely possible with the help of safety-net social policy in place (which NO, IS NOT turning out lots and lots of "welfare queens" and other big scammers), but with the current Kick-'Em-When'They're-Down-and-Bleeding politicians in power, well, how do you climb out of an abyss when they stole the ladder?

 

[Latimer]

In 2014 the people of Detroit decided that they had enough of politics as usual and elected Mike Duggan. What was amazing is that he was a write in candidate in the first round of voting and ran against a well known figure in the main event.
He was just reelected after being challenged by Coleman Young's son.

Middle-aged white men to the rescue.

 

[Latimer]

This guy has the right idea (I used to do this sort of stuff when I was in my teens, but in LA.)

https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article_id=38135

Before the current revival I read that a German architect proposed turning downtown Detroit into a sort of archaeological park that tourists would visit to explore great American architecture from the early twentieth century.

 

[peeonme]

Middle-aged white men to the rescue.

I don't feel as though he was elected because of what you mention, the voters had been fed up with the political machine and rebeled against it.

 

[HoodedRat]

Middle-aged white men to the rescue.

'Tis ever thus.

 

[KaraBulut]

I don't feel as though he was elected because of what you mention, the voters had been fed up with the political machine and rebeled against it.

That was pretty much it. After the Kwame Kilpatrick years and the overall decline in city services, people had enough and wanted a change.

For those who weren't locals, Kilpatrick the mayor of Detroit from 2002-2008. During his tenure, there were allegedly stripper parties at the mayor's mansion hosted by Kilpatrick. He was implicated in the murder of one of the strippers. He was having an extra-marital affair with an employee. He was convicted of obstruction of justice, went to prison, was released, violated his probation and was sent back to prison. Then he was convicted of fraud and racketeering. He's currently serving a 25 year prison sentence.

And that was before the city went bankrupt!

Again, same pattern: not a shithole but a pretty shitty government.

 

[peeonme]

The pictures of blight in Detroit really don't tell the full story of what has become of inner cities, education, health care and public services not only in large cities, but in 'blue color' suburbs and towns across America.

Go back 50 or 60 years and the USA was in a cold war with the USSR, before that was Vietnam. A huge amount of our budget was being poured in to the military. We had entered in to 'mutual defense' agreements with most nations. America maintained a monster military while other nations used their monies for public health care, better education and rebuilding older cities.

Add to the mix the fact that our large cities were occupied mainly by minorities that didn't get much of a voice in government and you see neglect and blight, crowded emergency rooms and schools with ceilings falling in.

Some brag of having won the cold war, but at who's expense?

I have to add to this that after we 'won' the cold war, our government sold out the people that live in urban areas with trade agreements that left the people of our own nation high and dry. The tax base shrank even more, many small towns had to close police stations and 'rent' the sheriffs department to patrol their streets. Teachers and firemen lost their jobs as well.

 

[Latimer]

There are black mayors in cities both with and without black majorities, going back 40 years:

http://blackdemographics.com/culture/black-politics/black-mayors/

 

[belamyi]

Some brag of having won the cold war, but at who's expense?

I'd say Afghanistan was the one that won the Cold War

 

[KaraBulut]

...Some brag of having won the cold war, but at who's expense?

Following this line of thought, how much of the trillions spent in Iraq could have rehabilitated cities like Detroit? Or for that matter, Flint with it's problematic water system?

 

[Latimer]

Crime wave in Sweden from migrant families. Swedish hunk alert:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/teens-roam-streets-with-rifles-as-crime-swamps-sweden-q83g055k9

 

[belamyi]

Crime wave in Sweden from migrant families. Swedish hunk alert:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/teens-roam-streets-with-rifles-as-crime-swamps-sweden-q83g055k9

With that belly? he's not a hunk: at most, you could call him "muffin"... but, with that flaccidity, he rather looks like last week's muffin.

How exciting, like cool baddy Italian and Puerto Rican teens in Manhattan seventy years ago...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K_4ZaMc1-4

 

[peeonme]

Following this line of thought, how much of the trillions spent in Iraq could have rehabilitated cities like Detroit? Or for that matter, Flint with it's problematic water system?

Good point. I feel that the way we accept the condition of our nation, be it the urban blight, the schools, the medical dysfunction (in regards to availability of treatment and high out of pocket costs) , the crumbling infrastructure our crowded jails and prisons, gun violence, sorry if I left anything out, is much like the dysfunctional family. The ones that can't clean their home, can't cut their grass,
can't stop arguing and are always broke.

They tell themselves that someday they will 'get it together', better days are ahead, their ship will come in, they will clean their house. Then they order a pizza and watch TV. Mean while, things just get worse.

Talk is cheap, but, we all do it to some degree. It makes us 'feel good' to notice the problem and tell ourselves that we will fix it... someday. In the mean time clutter and dirt, a messy yard, a dirty car, a broken fence become the norm.

As a nation, we are desensitized to filth, violence and poverty. Ho hum, another shooting. We have to do something about that... someday.

 

[belamyi]

^ Oh please, people, stop that crap: since when do empires... ok... "big nations" like the USA enjoy the general prosperity of countries like Switzerland or Liechtenstein... or Norway after they went "black". It's IM-PO-SSI-BLE. You can hope for an ideal state (of things and state as a nation) as much as you want, but you'd better ACCEPT the plain fact, deal with REALITY: you will not be turning into a Harry Lime by doing so

Unless you are a small enough community, your great country will always be led by the Harry Limes, who will be preaching you about how right they are in their decisions...

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


... and who will be applauded by those who like them so much because of their decency and presentability, because in their world all their own dirt is kept in the dirty neighbour's backyard.

 

[peeonme]

^ Oh please, people, stop that crap: since when do empires... ok... "big nations" like the USA enjoy the general prosperity of countries like Switzerland or Liechtenstein... or Norway after they went "black". It's IM-PO-SSI-BLE. You can hope for an ideal state (of things and state as a nation) as much as you want, but you'd better ACCEPT the plain fact, deal with REALITY:


... and who will be applauded by those who like them so much because of their decency and presentability, because in their world all their own dirt is kept in the dirty neighbour's backyard.

Seems as though hope and being positive push your buttons some. I for one, do not seek an 'ideal' state. I am an incrementalist that believes in making things better, not perfect. So, if my posts annoy you then I am on the right path.