Well, this came out of nowhere

[spencer]

wow, it actually sounds like you have the exact opposite of what most guys post on here, in your situation.

you want to use young women (and have) sexually, but emotionally you side with men your age if not older.

very interesting.

yeah, you should definately talk to somebody about it.

 

[NotSoStraight67]

Spencer, sorry, I should've been clearer.

I have never "used young women" sexually. Heaven's no. Perhaps my use of the word "affair" was not good. I better clarify: When I was 22, she was 22. We worked in the same office and kept it a secret, so I termed it an "affair." We were hot for each other, and big time, and it was fun, and then it ended, and in retrospect it's good we kept it a secret because we kept working there. We were still friendly (I went to her wedding for God's sake), and traded coy glances at work until I moved away. So if she would have claimed to have been used, I would've been shocked, particularly since she made the first move and this all happened at her apartment. And as I mentioned, 20 years later, she's my FB friend. [OK, I confess, I friended her.]

Now, at 42, sure 22-year-old women catch my eye. But I've never done anything with one. The question posed to me was "Would you pass up fooling around with a hot young woman if she offered it?" My answer was yes, and it was truthful. Maybe I'm wrong, but a "no" answer likely would've elicited "see, you really are gay" responses.

But, you and several others are right: I would benefit from talking out my recent emotional attraction to men.

 

[NotSoStraight67]

Oops, one last thing. I bet you took my reference to "salt and pepper" hair as meaning I was attracted emotionally to guys older than I. Well, um, at 42, I still have a full head hair, but I've got some gray. The guy in question is a few years younger than I am and has some flecks of gray too.

 

[motodude87]

If it makes you feel better, I think there's a lot of us going through this. I know I'm working my way through now also. My marriage is not good, one night the light bulb came on, and I've been going from there. I have a kid that complicates things but I'm not emotionally attached to any one guy right now. Trying to decide between options 1, 2, and 3. Mostly now trying to figure out if I leave or just tell her and go from there. Good luck and keep us posted

 

[KaraBulut]

True bisexuality is like a tide that goes in and out. Sometimes the feelings are for women. Sometimes they are for men. They seldom are for both genders consecutively.

This wouldn't be an issue except for a long-term marriage that you're involved in.

Not much to add to the advice here except to reinforce the recommendation to get counseling before you take any further action.

You want to go into this with your eyes wide open and with an understanding of what you risk losing and what you risk gaining.

 

[fetaby]

Interesting thread, I'll weigh in after I return from work. Not so straight, you're doing the right thing by exploring the options. Haven't had time to read the entire thread, but looking forward to.

 

[NotSoStraight67]

You know what, guys, the dust is clearing. After a good-night's sleep, next to my wife, cuddling occasionally, things do go back in perspective. But I know these feelings will be back. So I need to learn to deal.

Am I horny? I am, I guess.

Do I ride the tide of bisexuality? Definitely.

Would I benefit from talking to somebody? Absolutely.

True Guy4Silver, I "don't know him"; do I want to? Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely!

Why would I do such a thing?

Well, it really struck me late last night, and became clear this a.m. I think what I want and need more than anything else is a true male companion. I've had two in my life -- a fantastic HS buddy with whom, yes, I have cried, hugged, and shared inner thoughts. We still do, from time to time (well, the inner thoughts, haven't cried in a while), but not as often as we should. And yes, I had the hots for him when we were growing up, and still do, cuz he's still cute and in shape and smiles a lot and "hasn't changed a bit." So I'm human.

My other soul mate is/was a little different. I describe him as my "best friend" from college, and ended up being his best man at his wedding years later. He's very smart, and challenged me to be smart, and we used to talk about everything under the sun in those great days of caffeine-driven college. I have never found him physically attractive. He's sort of gross, actually. Yet he's been a great pal, and we're in touch a lot, and he'd give me the shirt off his back, which is a problem because I really don't want to see him without a shirt.

This board needs more humor.

So here I am. I'm 42. It's been 20 years since I've had a great male friend.

My marriage could be better. But it's not terrible. I need a male friend who I can really talk to, and who will share stuff with me. This man fits the bill, I think. In fact, looking back on it, our first meeting last week was much like the first day I met my college bud (though he and I most definitely did not rub knees. ) I knew within five minutes that my best friend from college would be my best friend from college. I have not felt this in, let's see, 24 years. I felt it a few days ago. Guys, it's a fantastic feeling.

The complicating factors here -- and they are seriously complicating -- are that I'm horny, and I find him attractive. And he appears to find me attractive. Life is interesting.

I don't know what to make of the knee stuff, except that I will never forget it, that I was exhilarated by it, that I'm flattered we find each other's "salt and pepper" attractive, and that I'm a human male who's neither a zero nor a 6 on the 0-to-6 scale who is multi-attracted to another man who appears not to be a zero or a 6 either.

He and I traded FB messages today where we pretty much pledged our agreement to get together to chat about the shit in our lives.

Life is good. Great, actually.

Motodude, I valued being able to hear from you. I'm going to PM you when I have the chance. Can't today; too busy at work.

I'll keep y'all posted, because I think I've struck a chord. I won't see the guy for more than a week because of scheduling issues, but I'll keep reading the responses, because this board is actually sort of fun.

 

[rareboy]

This board needs more humor.

Ain't going to happen. We're all sensitive here and humour is not possible since it may appear aimed at diminishing the integrity and intentions of the OP and others.

But wow, we're all just so glad for you now that you have realized that it was just bromance missing out of your life.

Every guy needs a buddy.

Now remember not to relegate your wife to second best while you're crushing on this dude, because that would just not be nice.

 

[NotSoStraight67]

Guy4Silver, interesting thought. But because of my career (part of my problem that led to lack of intimacy in the first place), my plate is full with "country club" type stuff. Face it, locker-room talk there revolves around the local NFL team's performance, how I got "robbed" on the 13th green, various career-oriented banter that might pay off with some referrals, updates on the kids and grandkids, and various other surfacy nonsense. Tiring. Not my scene. Yuck.

I belong to a great health club, which has had various amounts of eye candy over the years. Much better eye candy than fat lawyers. Sorry.

I just can't disclose the setting where I came to meet this guy, because it's sort of a sort of social setting that is much more desirable to me than country clubs. Now, maybe if we did what we do naked, that'd work. Thanks for the idea, though.

 

[Telstra]

Guy4Silver, interesting thought. But because of my career (part of my problem that led to lack of intimacy in the first place), my plate is full with "country club" type stuff. Face it, locker-room talk there revolves around the local NFL team's performance, how I got "robbed" on the 13th green, various career-oriented banter that might pay off with some referrals, updates on the kids and grandkids, and various other surfacy nonsense. Tiring. Not my scene. Yuck.

I belong to a great health club, which has had various amounts of eye candy over the years. Much better eye candy than fat lawyers. Sorry.

I just can't disclose the setting where I came to meet this guy, because it's sort of a sort of social setting that is much more desirable to me than country clubs. Now, maybe if we did what we do naked, that'd work. Thanks for the idea, though.

I think you are fun and funny.
Anyway, so is it possible to have a wife and a husband at the same time ?
I think so .

 

[NotSoStraight67]

Anyway, so is it possible to have a wife and a husband at the same time ?
I think so .

I used to work with a woman who had a "work husband." That was I for about a year. Then she moved on to a new "work husband." I am not making this up.

You know, they say women are attracted to guys with male soul mates. My wife used to say it actually; she hasn't in years. I should bring up the subject. She'd totally understand that, if this guy and I became great buds. Now, obviously, I'm not sure she would approve if I had my hand down his pants, and that could be a challenge. I'm only half-kidding.

Feels good to kid. I'm glad you appreciate my humor, or humour as I think you say in Australia. I understand how and why responders can't rib or make fun of OPs (did I get that right? -- I'm new to this). But OPs can make fun of themselves and try to bring some levity to their situations.

Brings back memories of good times -- sex early on, with my wife (well, she wasn't my wife then), when she'd be giving me a handjob or something and the spunk would fly for feet and we'd laugh. How can you not?? And then we'd do it again!! Humans are fun and funny.

I really have to get back to work.

 

[hotb0d]

I just read your reply...the one where you described your college best friend. Omg, I didn't know I could laugh in this neck of the wood of the JUB forums. You sound like a great and funny guy, and definitely glad that you're injecting some humor/humour into this forum. Best of luck.

 

[Petalswilt]

Ummm I didn't think it was funny. You sound kinda shallow to me. I'm really sorry your wife hasn't managed to come through life in the top-notch state you have. Maybe you should just wank in front of a mirror. That sounds like it might be win-win.

 

[NotSoStraight67]

Petalswilt, to a degree, I think you're right.

It pains me that looks matter. I vowed to myself years ago this wouldn't happen. And it has happened to me, to us. Pretty frequently my wife laments that she's not able to "keep up with me" in the aging department. I buy my clothes alone now, because hearing how much smaller my waist is than hers causes her pain.

My response is always to be supportive, to encourage her when she tries to exercise, to say nothing when she makes food choices I wouldn't, and when she harps on herself to tell her that I know she's trying, and that I love her, which is absolutely true. Telling her that "I don't care" wouldn't be truthful. Maybe the more loving thing would be to get on her case more. I don't think so.

But this has made a difference in our relationship. No doubt about it. Shallow, perhaps. Human, yes. I imagine gay men in committed relationships deal with this from time to time, too.

And now, I find myself attracted to a good-looking man. This has happened before. What hasn't happened before is that he has returned the signal that he is attracted to me. This is new to me. It is painful, confusing, and exciting.

For the record, since I met him, I haven't looked at one picture of porn. Not one.

I also cuddled on the couch with my wife last night. Did we talk about any of this? No. Might we have to, soon? Perhaps.

A word about humor: At the risk of being shallow, I'll refer to the 1970s sitcom the Mary Tyler Moore show and one of the funniest things I've ever seen on TV: the Chuckles Bites the Dust episode. (Find it on Wikipedia; I haven't posted enough yet to provide a url I guess.) Chuckles the Clown, a much-loved character in the TV newsroom, dies after dressing as a peanut at a parade and getting shelled by a circus elephant. All but Mary Richards makes jokes; she's appalled at the shallowness. But at the funeral, it is Mary who can't stop laughing when the minister gives eulogizes Chuckles with some of the TV clown's own words:

"Chuckles the Clown brought pleasure to millions. The characters he created will be remembered by children and adults alike: Peter Peanut, Mr. Fee-Fi-Fo, Billy Banana, and my particular favorite, Aunt Yoo Hoo. And not just for the laughter they provided—there was always some deeper meaning to whatever Chuckles did. Remember Mr. Fee-Fi-Fo's little catch phrase? Remember how, when his arch rival Señor Caboom hit him with a giant cucumber and knocked him down, Mr. Fee-Fi-Fo would always pick himself up, dust himself off, and say, 'I hurt my foo-foo'? Life's a lot like that. From time to time we all fall down and hurt our foo-foos. If only we could deal with it as simply and bravely and honestly as Mr. Fee-Fi-Fo. And what did Chuckles ask in return? Not much. In his own words, 'A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants.'"

I have this episode on DVD. (Can't find it on YouTube.) I bet I've watched it 100 times. Sometimes we show it to friends during dinner; sometimes I watch it when I'm feeling glum, like now, after reading Petalswilt's post. But no time for TV; gotta get to work.

 

[Petalswilt]

Actually, NotsoStraight, I apologise. This is a no flame zone and I forgot where I was. You felt you could be honest here, and that's probably why you posted.

 

[fetaby]

No so straight, you've got some big things on your plate to be sure. And it's comforting to see your responding to them in a mature fashion. I only have a few points I'd like to address, and feel free to skim right over this post if I've misunderstood.

The personal ad jackoffs. If you seek sexual fulfillment outside of anyone but your wife, it's cheating. At what point does it constitute all out adultery? I don't know, I guess what ever helps you sleep. Is it the physical act, or the moment your head gives you the go ahead? Given human nature, one does question the practicality of monogamy. One of the recurring themes I see bandied about JUB is that as gay men; we are freed to explore relationships that aren't constricted by heterosexual values. This happened to you too. The first jo guy, you enjoyed. The second, you didn't. I can't say why, and I'd hate to theorize, but the point is you did. In my mind, adultery is acting out on your sexual impulses. You're right in that as a human the eyes (and other body parts ) don't stop working once you've committed yourself to an idividual. But is it a curse? Only if your not honest with yourself. I lied to myself once in this respect, I was young. I was beginning a relationship with a person who I thought I could love, but at the same time I was deeply turned on and flirting with another guy. In the relationships infancy, I rationalized that having a lil fun with my flirt would be a good thing. Get it out of my system before my new relationship with my possible love bloomed, so that I was not tempted later. At the time it seemed like a good idea. My new boyfriend felt differently. We ended up getting together despite this, but the level of trust was breeched and never returned. And I'm saying all this to make a point really, my tryst opened up a can of worms and I felt things I'd never want anyone to feel. I know for me, cheating on the person that loves you leaves you dead in the road and I made my mind up on the spot to never do it again. Another curse of humanity, our minds are stronger than our instincts. Your feelings about men, that you've had at some level your entire life, will not go away. Part of you is truly wired to want them. But how to move forward? With a wife of 15 years? That's a toughie. I do not envy your position.

Your wife and your life. It seems that through your varying posts here, that you and your wife are indeed floating apart in life. She has body image issues, you go to the gym. She notices this and it stresses her, you accept the ravages of time and do what you can to counter act mother nature. I would hope that after the length of time you two have been together that looks wouldn't matter. But if this isn't the case, then there's no use trying to reconcile that. Much better to be honest about how you feel. It would be easy to twist into a place where your words and actions cause her to repeat the cycles of bad habits that have caused her to not age gracefully. That's a shame as she seems like a cool lady, but will a man ever truly understand the pressure felt by women to maintain an image, in our society I truly don't know. Her confidence on this seems to be lacking, and until she makes the decision to change for the better there's not much you can do but accept her for who she is. I wish her well.

The new man. How exciting! I'm glad you met him. It's about time you've fleshed out and explored your bi side after stiffling it for years and years. Do you think it would have been easier to maintain if you expressed this side of yourself instead of running from it? But analyzing the past is an exercise in futility to a point as you can't change what has happened, only learn your lessons and deal with the present and plan for the future. You said that meeting this man, and the mild flirtations brought about feelings you haven't experienced since you met your wife. That's an awesome revelation! Given the standards of your attraction to him (the similarities) do you think these feelings of anxiousness and excitement are a result of denying your need for male companionship or did the man warrant these reactions on his own accord. Answer this and you'll have your answer as to how far you should take your relationship with him. I don't think I could say much more about him as you've probably examined everything dealing with him to death. But I will say that your meeting and flirting was the thing gay men's dreams are made of, I'm glad that you got to experience that. It's all very Disney, Lady and the Tramp cute. My advice, take it all slow until you figure out what your gonna do. The jo guys, the drifting wife you still love, the new man could all add up to one messy cake, good to see someone looking up a recipe for a change. Keep us posted, your writing is beautiful and appreciated. Good days.

 

[Elwood]

Hello not so straight67, I have been following your thread now for a few days now, and as someone who has been there and done it, Divorced and came out of the closet at 38 with two kids by the way, I offer you this advice. You have to get to the root of your feelings!! I remember the day I decided to do it, I got up one morning and was sitting on the side of the bed and I said to myself what the hell is wrong with me I am married with kids but I cannot stop thinking of men???? Well I actually got up the nerve to talk to my DR about it and he recommended therapy, and refferred me to the hospital Phsych dept. I went into therapy and it was the best choice I ever made in my life!!!


I to remember when I first met my ex-wife thinking o:k the man thing is over, but it slowly crept back and I finally had to decide what to do with it. I think that is the point that your are at?? Please understand I am not advocating that you take the same path as me that worked for me, what I am saying is get to the root of your feelings and see where they are coming from and then deal with them. I really think therapy is the way to go, I know it really helped me. I wish you the best of luck. I am now and out and proud Daddy and very much happier in life!!!

 

[Lube]

Ah, I was surprised none of us formerly-married guys had posted here, but elwood came to the rescue! There are lots of guys like us, NotSoStraightGuy, both here on JUB and in the real world (as you've seen from your flings with married guys on CraigsList).

Before I give you my advice, I just have to say one thing:

Dude, you have Mary Tyler Moore on DVD? You're so gay it's not even funny!

OK, now my advice.

3 years ago, I was in almost the exact same place that you are now. I was 42 going on 43. Married over 10 years. No kids. (Well, OK, I was still a virgin in terms of man-to-man sex, but still close enough to your story.)

I always felt sexual attraction to men, but I was in denial. I never had an emotional connection to any man, and could not imagine penetrative sex with a man.

I jacked off to gay porn but never cheated on my wife. Having no emotional connection to men, I never wandered from the marriage.

Then two things happened. The marriage was disintegrating and I finally met a man who I felt a very strong sexual and emotional connection to; much as you said in your first post. (As it turns out, it was just a crush and he got married (again) and I further discovered that I'm a bear and attracted to bears, and he doesn't have a lick of hair on him, so it never would've worked out.)

Even though nothing came of it, the experience quickly taught me that I could have a sexual and emotional connection/relationship with a man. In fact, it became clear to me that I preferred it.

JUB was my counselor. People here such as Jasun and AverageGuy (now Eagle-something) and many others gave me both tough-love advice and gentle advice.

So, in a 3-month period I came out to myself, asked for a divorce, and came out to the world.

I was initially petrified, but it all went so smoothly (other than the sleepless nights, constant obsessing over things, and worrying about consequences that never came to bear).

Get a counselor if you must, but it sounds like your marriage is over. Why are you even staying with her if you only have sex on "special occasions"? So you love her--so what? You can love friends and not be sexual with them.

It's time to divorce your wife and pursue this guy. At a minimum, you need to ask for a separation. I don't know what the laws are in your state/country, but it's best to get the wheels turning for divorce before having sex with anyone else.

Good luck and let us know how things go. The next year will be very topsy-turvy for you. Hopefully you'll get over the self-loathing/homophobia you displayed in your first post, but it's understandable because you're so new to this. Been there, done that. Keep an open mind and love yourself for who you are, regardless of what your sexual proclivities are. Be proud of who you are and what you like. It will make the journey easier.