Well, this came out of nowhere

[spencer]

I love the beginning of dating, it's so exciting. Your friend sounds pretty similar. And if not him, the next guy might be a better fit. Just realize that this is happening.

 

[NotSoStraight67]

Hi, good morning. What a difference sleep makes.

Spencer: Beginnings of any relationship are exciting. It's been awhile for me.

Lube: What if I knocked knees with a woman? Time for a divorce? I don't think so. But to be honest, you stumped me a little. I'm still attracted to my wife in many ways, but not HOT for her like I once was, and call me shallow, but I'm not much attracted to many women my age. Hey, I look at men and women younger than I. But I'd never consider any of them to be relationship material. That's just not me -- the 40-something guy with the 20-something babe hanging off his arm. Yuck. I don't know, maybe I need to do more thinking on that.

MJ2006, I think I'm wholeheartedly agreeing with this statement of yours: "I would go to counseling, I would first find out who I am and what I want before bringing the issue to the table." Your cautionary statement as to people's fake tolerance of gay people resonated. I was walking around work yesterday trying to gauge how each of them would react if I "came out." I was envisioning people avoiding me, walking away, whispering. And then a select few whom I've barely ever talked to being overly nice, going out of the way to show how liberal they are -- exactly what I confess to have done (particularly when in my 20s) when my white workplace would hire an African American. They could see through it. Anyway, crap, I bet I'd realize who my real friends were. And fast.

One problem for me is that I've never had sex with a guy. Not sex with any sort of emotion. It just seems completely irrational to me to go to a counselor, "decide I'm gay," tell my wife I want a divorce, and THEN for the first time try what it is POSSIBLE I want. I think that at this stage in my life, I MIGHT choose sex with guys over women, but I frankly do not know. Yes, aiming to find out -- with the "knee" guy or with someone else -- would be cheating. But what if I find out that, you know, gay sex isn't all it's cracked up to be? I'm serious. I am not attracted to anal sex in the least. I've read enough to know that might change, but it's where I'm at. Maybe I'm in transition, or just plain ignorant on this stuff, but it's what I'm feeling.

Fetaby, wow, thanks for taking somewhat of a risk for YOU! When I think about entering the "fold," I know I'd gain lots of new friends and lose some I have. My dad would be devastated. I'm serious: it probably would kill him. And there's an evil stepmother in the room too who would make me the root of ALL evil very, very quickly. I think the message I took away (other than some of ya' are hot for me - jk) is to not to do anything rash immediately, but also to not lose focus of where this might lead.

I appreciate you asking how I'm doing. I'm OK. We had a nice dinner last night -- nothing special, but nice. But splitting a bottle of wine is something my wife and I love doing. Man, I'd miss her if we split. So many things I'd miss about her. I'm tearing up just writing those words. There are many things we enjoy to do together. Yeah, lots of the hot passion is gone, but we've got history, you know? Her family loves me to pieces, more than my own. A lot more. We've had many, many, MANY good times. We both work too much, and that's taken its toll, but it is what it is ...

Lube and others, on me taking charge of getting a divorce: I'm not ready for that yet. Look, I love my wife. Not necessarily in the way I did when we first met, but looking back on it, maybe I should not have married someone I was so physically attracted to at first. But I did. And looking at her across the table last night, she's still beautiful, in so many ways. When you love someone, hurting them can be very, very difficult, it seems, even if it's ultimately "for the best." Now, sneaking around and then getting caught probably would hurt her more. It would hurt me more, if the tables were turned. I realize, it would be a breach of trust.

I'm not too religious anymore, but I grew up in a pretty conservative Christian church, where the idea of suffering so someone else doesn't suffer is part of the brainwashing -- I mean, teaching. Maybe, unfortunately, that got drilled into my head (along with all the supposedly anti-gay Bible verses.) For sooo many years I've thought that I need to keep this under wraps, for the good of those around me, so THEY don't suffer. It has worked for a long, long time, a time when I had sexual attraction to women as well as men. Sort of like tea and coffee when I'm in Britain: I'd really kill for a cup of Starbucks, but if all you have is tea, that's fine. I'll take either, as long as one of them is available.

In the attraction department, I'm not sure how much I like tea anymore, if you know what I mean. At least not the tea that is my age.

I'm just not 100 percent sure yet.

Elwood, I think you're right, counselor first.

Parting thought: I find it interesting that I've had no desire to look at porn for more than four days now. That's a record.

 

[Lube]

Lube: What if I knocked knees with a woman? Time for a divorce? I don't think so. But to be honest, you stumped me a little. I'm still attracted to my wife in many ways, but not HOT for her like I once was, and call me shallow, but I'm not much attracted to many women my age. Hey, I look at men and women younger than I. But I'd never consider any of them to be relationship material. That's just not me -- the 40-something guy with the 20-something babe hanging off his arm. Yuck. I don't know, maybe I need to do more thinking on that.

You're missing the point. I'm trying to make it a more generic/theoretical question so that you don't conflate your "gay" issues with your "cheating on the wife" issues. I don't care who you're attracted to specifically. The point is, if you found someone else--anyone else, man, woman, or goat--and started having sex with them, you'd violate the trust of your wife and the vows of your marriage.

That is so not OK, you know what I mean?

One problem for me is that I've never had sex with a guy. Not sex with any sort of emotion. It just seems completely irrational to me to go to a counselor, "decide I'm gay," tell my wife I want a divorce, and THEN for the first time try what it is POSSIBLE I want. I think that at this stage in my life, I MIGHT choose sex with guys over women, but I frankly do not know. Yes, aiming to find out -- with the "knee" guy or with someone else -- would be cheating. But what if I find out that, you know, gay sex isn't all it's cracked up to be? I'm serious. I am not attracted to anal sex in the least. I've read enough to know that might change, but it's where I'm at. Maybe I'm in transition, or just plain ignorant on this stuff, but it's what I'm feeling.

I'm just not 100 percent sure yet.

Ha ha, you are totally reminding me of what I went through 3 years ago. I see your logic/excuses, because I used the very same ones.

Look. So maybe you're not completely convinced you can have emotional sex with a guy. You'll never be 100% sure. Hell, after you meet a guy, you won't be 100% sure to move in with him. And you won't be 100% sure to marry him. You know what I mean? You're never 100% sure.

You came to a gay web site for advice. I think you're 88% sure!

Think of it this way (again, here, I'm going for the generic/theoretical; I'm not saying this is you). Let's say a gay guy came here for advice. He is married to a guy and they have vanilla sex. But suddenly(?!) he gets an itch for leather/bondage sex. But he's not 100% sure. Should he just go out and try it behind his partner's/husband's back? Or should he inform him; maybe ask for a trial separation or get a divorce?

I would like to think we'd all agree that doing it behind his partner's back is not the way to go.

And the fact that he suddenly has this outside interest suggests that that desire is not going to go away. Even if he's not 100% sure. The fact that he's seeking it out means he needs it now. Especially if it's a different gender.

So, please, for your family's sake. Do not use the "I'm not 100% sure" excuse. Because that's all it is. It's an excuse. Your inlaws will hate you if they find out you've been cheating on your wife.

Do some deep introspection. Realize your desires are not going to go away. You've just kept them deep inside, and they're squirreling their way out.

Deal with them. Now. In a healthy manner.

As always, the best of luck and keep us informed! I may seem stern or nasty, but remember, I've been exactly where you are now. I now what you're feeling. It's exciting but difficult. Don't make it any worse than it has to be.

 

[leomendez93]

One problem for me is that I've never had sex with a guy. Not sex with any sort of emotion. It just seems completely irrational to me to go to a counselor, "decide I'm gay," tell my wife I want a divorce, and THEN for the first time try what it is POSSIBLE I want. ..... Counseling would never tell you what to do. It would give you an opportunity for you to decide based on your values, belief system, wants, etc what to do whether you follow through with your decision or not. You may be surprised to find out that you are not into the gay thing as much as you think you are. You need to elaborate the issue.

I'm not too religious anymore, but I grew up in a pretty conservative Christian church: So now God may be telling you: Hey, it is time for you to develop YOUR personal relationship with me based on the uniqueness that you are. Religion or religious affiliation will come if you have that relationship as you need that support to live your life and carry on your relationship with Him

Parting thought: I find it interesting that I've had no desire to look at porn for more than four days now. That's a record.[/QUOTE]: Keep building upon it. Great accomplishment!

 

[NotSoStraight67]

OK, have some private internet access during the day, for good or for bad. You asked me to keep you posted. Sigh. I'm feeling pretty straight today. I'm just being honest.

Sorry, leomendez, been there. I believe in God, a creator, but the "personal relationship" stuff doesn't resonate with me in the least. Peace to those for whom it is meaningful; I will defend their rights to believe till the end. But suggesting that it's the only way doesn't work for me. I agree the porn thing is an accomplishment!

 

[fetaby]

Hi, good morning. What a difference sleep makes.

Spencer: Beginnings of any relationship are exciting. It's been awhile for me.

Lube: What if I knocked knees with a woman? Time for a divorce? I don't think so. But to be honest, you stumped me a little. I'm still attracted to my wife in many ways, but not HOT for her like I once was, and call me shallow, but I'm not much attracted to many women my age. Hey, I look at men and women younger than I. But I'd never consider any of them to be relationship material. That's just not me -- the 40-something guy with the 20-something babe hanging off his arm. Yuck. I don't know, maybe I need to do more thinking on that.Attractions seem to come and go, I've found women attractive. I've got eyes, ya know. And as for guys, my tastes run the gamut. In shape, out of shape, all colors. Maybe I'm just a horny guy, but the human body is a beautiful thing. I respond. But for me, what gets me really there is the personality and character. Examine your attractions, it's fun. But if you limit yourself, put up barriers, "that's just not me" the situation becomes futile. How many years was it again that your attraction to men was "just not me"? Honesty, I'm calling for it. Honesty to us, and more importantly honesty to yourself. Not that you haven't been, but really take the plunge.

MJ2006, I think I'm wholeheartedly agreeing with this statement of yours: "I would go to counseling, I would first find out who I am and what I want before bringing the issue to the table." Your cautionary statement as to people's fake tolerance of gay people resonated. I was walking around work yesterday trying to gauge how each of them would react if I "came out." I was envisioning people avoiding me, walking away, whispering. And then a select few whom I've barely ever talked to being overly nice, going out of the way to show how liberal they are -- exactly what I confess to have done (particularly when in my 20s) when my white workplace would hire an African American. They could see through it. Anyway, crap, I bet I'd realize who my real friends were. And fast. African American? You do know the word is black, right? Not pertaining to you, but if a person goes out of their way to accomodate, that's nine times better than anything else. At least you show some compassion, if somewhat misguided. Hope springs.

One problem for me is that I've never had sex with a guy. Not sex with any sort of emotion. It just seems completely irrational to me to go to a counselor, "decide I'm gay," tell my wife I want a divorce, and THEN for the first time try what it is POSSIBLE I want. I think that at this stage in my life, I MIGHT choose sex with guys over women, but I frankly do not know. Yes, aiming to find out -- with the "knee" guy or with someone else -- would be cheating. But what if I find out that, you know, gay sex isn't all it's cracked up to be? I'm serious. I am not attracted to anal sex in the least. I've read enough to know that might change, but it's where I'm at. Maybe I'm in transition, or just plain ignorant on this stuff, but it's what I'm feeling.And just how important is sex to you? Sex is good, and if you got a firecracker in the bed with ya, whoa baby! You've had sex with a guy already, remember your craigslist jo buddies. You've actually set yourself up with the perfect model for examination. Two guys, one you liked, one you didn't. Admittedly your trysts we're vanilla. (I'm going to send you a pm) Food for thought? Sex for sex, blah. Sex with emotion, wow. Ponder the existense of the porn and sex idustries. Ponder the variety they cater to.

Fetaby, wow, thanks for taking somewhat of a risk for YOU! When I think about entering the "fold," I know I'd gain lots of new friends and lose some I have. My dad would be devastated. I'm serious: it probably would kill him. And there's an evil stepmother in the room too who would make me the root of ALL evil very, very quickly. I think the message I took away (other than some of ya' are hot for me - jk) is to not to do anything rash immediately, but also to not lose focus of where this might lead.Well I'd hate to break it to ya, but you've made some friends without officially jumping the fence. Sometimes, I think you think too much.

I appreciate you asking how I'm doing. I'm OK. We had a nice dinner last night -- nothing special, but nice. But splitting a bottle of wine is something my wife and I love doing. Man, I'd miss her if we split. So many things I'd miss about her. I'm tearing up just writing those words. There are many things we enjoy to do together. Yeah, lots of the hot passion is gone, but we've got history, you know? Her family loves me to pieces, more than my own. A lot more. We've had many, many, MANY good times. We both work too much, and that's taken its toll, but it is what it is ...Check your pm.

Lube and others, on me taking charge of getting a divorce: I'm not ready for that yet. Look, I love my wife. Not necessarily in the way I did when we first met, but looking back on it, maybe I should not have married someone I was so physically attracted to at first. But I did. And looking at her across the table last night, she's still beautiful, in so many ways. When you love someone, hurting them can be very, very difficult, it seems, even if it's ultimately "for the best." Now, sneaking around and then getting caught probably would hurt her more. It would hurt me more, if the tables were turned. I realize, it would be a breach of trust. You've come a long way, baby. You already know everything you need to know. You just have to trust that you do. Do not look back on your life in regret, to change the past would be to change the future. We don't know that so it's pointless to do that. Learn your lessons, and carry them with you always. The path to true humanity requires constant vigilince.

I'm not too religious anymore, but I grew up in a pretty conservative Christian church, where the idea of suffering so someone else doesn't suffer is part of the brainwashing -- I mean, teaching. Maybe, unfortunately, that got drilled into my head (along with all the supposedly anti-gay Bible verses.) For sooo many years I've thought that I need to keep this under wraps, for the good of those around me, so THEY don't suffer. But do you know, that by doing so you have actually done them a disservice. To thine own self be true. Judge not lest you be judged. It is not for us to say we know what is best. All we can do is share of our true selves. Gift the ones we love with the blessings of our being. Howleelougah! It has worked for a long, long time, a time when I had sexual attraction to women as well as men. Sort of like tea and coffee when I'm in Britain: I'd really kill for a cup of Starbucks, but if all you have is tea, that's fine. I'll take either, as long as one of them is available.

In the attraction department, I'm not sure how much I like tea anymore, if you know what I mean. At least not the tea that is my age.

I'm just not 100 percent sure yet.

Elwood, I think you're right, counselor first.

Parting thought: I find it interesting that I've had no desire to look at porn for more than four days now. That's a record.Oh wow. It's to be expected. You're bringing to light what you compartmentalized and repressed. It's actually in your life now, and not just in your head. The distinct possibility of experiencing it first hand, if some time from now, has filled the void/vacuum you created. You do know the biggest sex organ is the brain, right?

Aarrgh, pm coming at ya.

 

[fetaby]

Sorry Not So, I just haven't had time to send you that pm. And I probably won't ever have the time. If it's cool, we can just keep this up here.

 

[Blueboy369]

If you want to make it work with your wife, spice up your sex life using sex toys and maybe, bi-porn. If you have lost all hope in your marriage, it's time to move on.

 

[NotSoStraight67]

Hi. Happy Thanksgiving. Here is an update.

Since my last post, I have had an amazing couple of months, and much to be thankful for, and I want to share it with you. If you consider yourself bisexual in general and emotionally attracted to men in particular, please please please read on ...
`
A quick synopsis of my situation and this post: I've been married for 11 years and "with" my wife for 14. But since I was a teen I've had feelings for guys -- mainly physical feelings that I've "relieved" with JO, porn, etc., but occasionally emotional attractions. All the while, I've had feelings for women, including my wife, though the physical attraction has waned A LOT in the last year and to be honest several years. I have never told her of my "gay" side, though I think she has a suspicion.

Anyway, on September 12, I had an emotions-based rush of attraction to and with another guy. He's about my age, has never been married, is drop-dead gorgeous (to me, anyway), and has a teenage kid. I found him extremely attractive in pretty much every way. The rush of attraction happened at an "event" that we both attended, and the evening ended with us pressing our knees into each other for a good 10 minutes and a hug that was not a mere guy hug. This scared the hell out of me. A sleepless night followed -- a night of confusion, and quite frankly despair. I was pretty sure the guy was like me: not 100 percent straight. I was confused and tired, so I got up and wrote this post. Several of you took time to read and share thought-provoking advice both publicly and by PM. Thank you, all.

The dust has most certainly cleared and settled. Guys, it has been an amazing couple of months for me. I want to tell you about it -- with hopes I'll get some feedback, yes, but more than anything to share with you some of the mysteries of human -- OK, male-to-male -- attraction.

One moment I laugh; the next I cry ...

First, this: I was wrong. This guy is pretty damn straight. Much straighter than I am, at least. Sexually speaking, that is. He is among the most emotional men I've ever met. Unlike pretty much every other guy I've ever known, he says what he's feeling and he's not at all afraid to show his vulnerable side. I find this pretty damn attractive. But I don't think he has a corresponding physical attaction to men or to me. How do I know? He's in the midst of pursuing a woman that he likes very, very much, and he's sharing his adventures with me, as well as the easily explainable reasons for why he has remained single for so long.

And I can't believe I'm saying this, but I do not feel jealous in the least, and I really could not be happier for him. Why? Because he is my friend, an AMAZING friend, easily the best friend I've ever had. I truly, sincerely, want my friend to be happy. I want his friendship 1,000 times more than I want to get inside his pants. I really do. And strangely, as our friendship has strengthened the past few weeks, my sexual attraction to him has waned and my attraction to my wife has increased!!! Ohmigosh! Weird!!

Read on ...

Because of this guy, basically, I have not posted anything here in more than two months. My "need for men" pretty much has been satisfied by his friendship, for good or for bad. To be honest, I have not even logged onto JUB in two months. I have barely looked at porn.

Remarkably, meanwhile, my attraction to women in general and my wife in particular HAS INCREASED! This is truly odd. I am in the middle of an awakening, I think -- sexual, yes, but more than anything, emotional. And I want to share it with you, particularly those of you who fashion yourself as "bi" in one way or another. I'm finding all of this absolutely remarkable, and to a degree damn fun.

All right, more about this guy and me. He's met my wife two times now, most recently about a week ago after I had him over to the house and my wife came home toward the end of our visit. The three of us chatted for a good while, then it was time for him to go. There was a hug. Him, and me. He initiated it. I returned it, of course, even though he's about 7 inches taller than me! My wife just stood there, fairly surprised, but smiling.

This hugging stuff is but one bit of evidence that with this man I have built the most amazing friendship I could ever imagine. It is an absolutely, thoroughly amazing friendship. He has told me things that he says he's told maybe one other person in his life. Maybe he's fibbing, but I don't think so. One thing he told me he said he had never told anyone. As for this woman he's pursuing, he shares his innermost thoughts with me, stuff I will never, ever disclose to anyone.

I should point out that I'm a damn good listener. I always have been. I keep confidences. "I trust you completely," he said. And he can trust me, completely. I might not have made a good male friend in a lot of years, but I've NEVER lost one ...

Anyway, I've shared my innermost thoughts with him too. Yes, guys, five days ago I told him the BIG secret, the secret that I'm attracted to men.

WOW! I DID IT!!

I was having a bit of a crisis day, so I dropped the bombshell while at work and over the phone, for good or for bad. I dropped it after I shared some frustration over my waning attraction to my wife. He then gave me some frank feedback in which he told me point-blank that my wife might have a few extra pounds, but that she is an attractive woman, an awesome woman quite frankly, and that there has to be something else going on than just her looking her age.

He, of course, was right. She is awesome, and there's a lot more going on. This is pretty much the exchange, as I remember it:

"Do you have at least 10 minutes?" I asked.

"Sure buddy. Anything for you."

"OK, here goes."

A pause and then ...

"I'm not gay," I said. "But I'm not straight, either."

With barely a pause, he laughed. He LAUGHED!! He didn't hang up. He didn't gasp. He didn't sit speechless. He didn't say "you're kidding."

He laughed!

And then ...

"Oh, realllly!?," he said. "In-ter-esting."

"Yes, it is interesting. Welcome to my world."

"I had no clue."

"I hide it well."

"Yes, you sure do."

At that point, I was crying, more or less, and I told him it was the most difficult thing I had told anyone in my life. He was at work too, but he listened, and gave me all the time I needed. He didn't freak. He acknowledged how difficult it must have been to say those words, and he let me say my piece. He checked in on me later in the day, just to see how I was doing. I thanked him profusely for not "running away from me."

"Why would I do that?" he asked.

He said that my bombshell would change nothing between us. I, of course, had my doubts about that one. I mean, after you tell a guy you're attracted to guys, how can that not change everything, right?

Well, nothing has changed. Not yet, anyway. If anything, our friendship has gotten stronger. And the night of my "outing," it was my wife and I who were at an "event." Guys, this is truly odd, but I looked around the room at the men AND women and just appreciated the physical attractiveness of both, with not a shred of guilt. None. A few hot guys, some good-looking women. Yum! Then I did what I haven't done in maybe a year. I took my wife's hand, and held it, and cradled her arm. I felt the love between us. It was awesome. Confusing, yes. But awesome. She, of course, wondered what in the hell was going on.

I slept well that night. My buddy checked in with me first thing in the morning to make sure I was OK. I assured him I was most certainly OK, and I told him about holding my wife's hand. He was 100 percent happy for me!

Throughout that day I felt liberated. SOMEBODY KNOWS! He and I went out for a beer that night. (He's got some non-relationship-oriented shit going on, too -- I've been a great buddy to him, too.) By me sharing my sexual orientation, our friendship has gotten even stronger, no doubt about it. I thanked him up and down, told him how appreciative I was for our great friendship, and that while I did not expect to dwell on my sexual orientation, I truly appreciated him listening. The night ended, again, with a hug. He initiated it. Obviously, he's not afraid of catching the "gay germ" from a guy like me. I always wondered. I mean, he didn't grab my ass of course, but he didn't shy away from physical expression either. Isn't that something??

And true to form, the last few days we've continued on as before. My bombshell appears to be no big deal. I've talked about my sexual orientation a little, but not a lot. I really don't think this guy has a homophobic bone in his body, and does not doubt bisexuality. "I truly believe you're born with the attractions you end up with." I agree. He really doesn't care what I am or am not. This is amazing! I could not be more fortunate.

I also told him that I need to tell my wife about my attraction to guys. He agrees, but cautions against doing it immediately.

Thoughts?

My latest plan is to get some counseling first, so I can keep figuring out who in the hell I am. And I've got a couple books I need to read. (Has anyone read a book called "Half Straight"? It seems to be my story ...) But I really think my wife has a right and a need to know this about me.

That being said, I am going to wait until after the holidays to tell her. I need to keep thinking, do some reading, and yes keep feeling. By "outing" myself to one person, a most amazing thing has happened: I am in tune with my emotions more than I have been in years, probably since I was a teenager. Emotions, I am discovering, are extremely important to me. I really had no clue. I need to feel emotions, and I need to feel emotionally connected not just to women but to men. This is me. I need the m4m emotional attraction more than the physical attraction, I think.

The past few days, my wife has noticed a difference in me, bigtime. She can tell that this friend has had a pretty remarkable effect on me, and she seems fine with it so far. At Thanksgiving, she was talking about what an amazing guy he is -- to her family, no less. Today, I shared how I had made a mistake by not making "guy friends" after we had gotten married. She agreed, and seems to support me completely.

But she needs to know this about me, this gay side of me. When she finds out, I don't think she'll laugh like my buddy did. But, like him, I don't think she'll run either. She's pretty damn open-minded. We know tons of gay folks. And she's told me for years that she's surprised I'm straight. Geez, think I can take a clue? Good Lord.

But of course, if I were her, I would ask whether I have acted on these desires. The answer to that, as I made clear in my posts, is yes, I have acted on them, and while married. And I will not lie about this. I am done lying to people who deserve to know the truth. It will be very difficult, but I will tell the truth, and the truth is, I have had three craigslist hookups with married guys -- one that involved some completely safe body contact, another that was JO in a hotel room where we watched each other come, one that involved feeling each other up in a parking lot.

The truth is, I liked watching the guy come, but the other two hookups I didn't like much. To be honest, I went away from the last encounter pretty damn disgusted -- both with the other not-very-attractive guy, and with myself.

My explanation for the exploration, if not my excuse, is that "I had to know." Of course, I should've done this when I was 14, or maybe 24, and not 42, which is what I am now. But I just had to know what it was like to be with a guy. I HAD TO KNOW!! And now, I do. And while parts of it were OK -- all right, better than OK -- on balance it wasn't fantastic. Not for me. That's how I am, I guess. I can totally see how and why guys have great sex with each other, but I'm not sure I ever could. Hmm.

Quite frankly, I like the feel of a naked, smooth, sensual woman in my arms a lot more than a hairy-chested man. That being said, I liked watching that guy have an orgasm in his hotel room. It was, quite frankly, cool to watch his most private of moments, to see his masculine sexual passion and testosterone-driven energy, and to watch his semen spew into his hand. Mmm. I'm getting hard writing those words. I like the male orgasm -- mine, but also those of other men, if I find them otherwise attractive. And I have to be honest with myself: I wouldn't mind seeing this again, particularly on a guy like him who was, in all honesty, pretty hot. He was a college athlete in his day, and still in great shape! He would've caught my eye at the gym, no doubt about it, and I got to see him cum! Mmmm.

This is a part of me. I enjoyed my experience in that hotel room. I'm not sure I need to get into this detail with my wife, but, well, this is who I am ...

As for the third guy, though, he wasn't hot in the least. I touched his hard dick, there in his pickup truck, but I didn't feel any connection with his tube of flesh or with him. It was, frankly, yucky. First chance I got, I washed my hands.

So I think I'm probably done with that craigslist shit. But if my wife asks, I feel that I need to be honest -- honest about being attracted to the sexual side of good-looking guys, but also honest about not being so crazy about actually having sexual contact with them. This appears to be where I'm at, on this Saturday after Thanksgiving 2009 at least. Tomorrow, maybe it'll be different. And there appear to be plenty of guys like me, judging by the "Broke Straight Boys" stuff out there.

And I need to be honest with her and with myself. These feelings will never, ever go away. I should have told my wife this before we were married, but I didn't, because I was so fucking hot for her at the time. It's my fault, I guess. But so it goes.

I of course hope my wife won't go away. My love for her has grown (or been rekindled) a lot in just the last few days -- because of me coming out to my friend. This is truly odd, and amazing, and remarkable. If women only knew how complex we guys can be!!

And I hope to God my friend isn't going away either. The first week of our friendship, he said the following: "I feel like we're going to be friends for a very, very long time." I think he's right. To say I'm lucky to have found him is an understatement. Maybe I'll get to be in his wedding.

Well, that's my update. Lots going on in my life. I'm giving thanks on this Thanksgiving weekend. I feel I have a lot to be thankful for. I hope you do, too.

 

[Lube]

Very interesting post. Congrats on finding out so much about yourself.

I hate to rush this answer to such a long, detailed post, but my bf is waiting in bed and it's late here...

I think you will find that you are only about 10% of your way through exploring your sexuality. You think you have answers now, but you don't, really. I don't mean just having sex. I mean understanding who you are, and what you really want. That just takes time. You can't rush it.

You're sort of in a catch-22: it would be good to have more time to understand yourself and gain confidence in what you feel, before telling your wife; but (I don't think) you should explore a lot more sexually without her knowing. I'll have to think about a good compromise on that.

You're sort of at that stage that a teenager is at when he first recognizes his gayness. If he tells his parents right away, it's easy for the parents to make him believe (at least temporarily) that "it's just a phase" or "you're really attracted to women, but you haven't found the right one"--except in your case it might be more like "you're really attracted to women but your wife is just showing her age". That's a pretty lame excuse that someone may use on you.

But I don't think you're self-confident enough in your sexuality to dispel bad advice like that. Not yet, anyway.

A lot will happen to you over the next 6 months (hell, over the next 2 years!). You won't be totally in control. All I can say is, just don't fall back on pat statements like those above ("you're really straight but...").

Instead, own the fact that you like men. Like your friend said, it's part & parcel of who you are: you're born this way. You can only squelch it for so long.

Keep asking yourself: if you want (nay, need!) to explore sex with men, what's the point of being married to a woman? What are you trying to prove? Who are you helping?

"To honor and to love, in sickness and in health" is meant for people who are sexually compatible--it's not meant for gay/bi guys trapped in a marriage to a woman. I know that sounds harsh, but don't let your wife's problems force you into staying married to her.

You owe yourself before you owe her.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

P.S.--I'm not totally convinced your friend is straight. This story and his reactions remind me a lot of young guys' coming out stories here, which often enough end up with the "straight friend" coming out, too.

 

[Elwood]

Well those are some interesting developments. I am not trying to push you one way or the other, just trying to give advice from my own experience. I think it is great post and you seem to be happy. The one thing that worries me is you say you Think you are done with the Craiglist shit. Which to me says that deep down, way deep down it is still on your mind, and you are trying to push it away. I managed to push it away for years but it always came back. I don't know if it will be same for you, but it is something to think about.

I still stick by my advice of therapy and you seem to be open to it, so why not go for it? If anything it will help you in bringing this up with your wife. I wish you all the best and if there is anything you would like to ask or if you need to talk and do not feel like doing it in this thread please feel free to P.M me.

Take care!!

 

[Blueboy369]

Congrats on moving forward and accepting yourself more. If you feel that you must tell your wife that you have felt an attraction towards men, fine. If you also mention that you fooled around she will consider this cheating. I don't see the need for full disclosure. You can keep this information to yourself, it's OK. Just my opinion.

 

[stripes]

wow that's awesome. you're lucky to have a friendship like the one you have with this guy

i'd wait a bit for these good feelings of release to pass before making any decisions on telling your wife everything though. true she does deserve to know but i'd give it a bit more time. i could be wrong, but from reading your post it seems like you're on a high from opening up and telling your mate your secret and you want to chase that feeling by opening up to your wife. telling her isn't going to be like telling your mate. she's more likely to be hurt especially since you cheated on her

 

[fetaby]

Hopefully I get this reply done in a timely manner... And here it goes...

Hi. Happy Thanksgiving. Here is an update.

Since my last post, I have had an amazing couple of months, and much to be thankful for, and I want to share it with you. If you consider yourself bisexual in general and emotionally attracted to men in particular, please please please read on ...
`
A quick synopsis of my situation and this post: I've been married for 11 years and "with" my wife for 14. But since I was a teen I've had feelings for guys -- mainly physical feelings that I've "relieved" with JO, porn, etc., but occasionally emotional attractions. All the while, I've had feelings for women, including my wife, though the physical attraction has waned A LOT in the last year and to be honest several years. I have never told her of my "gay" side, though I think she has a suspicion.

Anyway, on September 12, I had an emotions-based rush of attraction to and with another guy.Knee knocking is a physical thing, no? He's about my age, has never been married, is drop-dead gorgeous (to me, anyway), and has a teenage kid. I found him extremely attractive in pretty much every way. The rush of attraction happened at an "event" that we both attended, and the evening ended with us pressing our knees into each other for a good 10 minutes and a hug that was not a mere guy hug. This scared the hell out of me. A sleepless night followed -- a night of confusion, and quite frankly despair. I was pretty sure the guy was like me: not 100 percent straight.Me too, lol. I was confused and tired, so I got up and wrote this post. Several of you took time to read and share thought-provoking advice both publicly and by PM. Thank you, all.

The dust has most certainly cleared and settled. Guys, it has been an amazing couple of months for me. I want to tell you about it -- with hopes I'll get some feedback, yes, but more than anything to share with you some of the mysteries of human -- OK, male-to-male -- attraction.

One moment I laugh; the next I cry ...

First, this: I was wrong. This guy is pretty damn straight. Much straighter than I am, at least. Sexually speaking, that is. He is among the most emotional men I've ever met. Unlike pretty much every other guy I've ever known, he says what he's feeling and he's not at all afraid to show his vulnerable side. I find this pretty damn attractive. But I don't think he has a corresponding physical attaction to men or to me. How do I know? He's in the midst of pursuing a woman that he likes very, very much, and he's sharing his adventures with me, as well as the easily explainable reasons for why he has remained single for so long.

And I can't believe I'm saying this, but I do not feel jealous in the least, and I really could not be happier for him. Why? Because he is my friend, an AMAZING friend, easily the best friend I've ever had. I truly, sincerely, want my friend to be happy. I want his friendship 1,000 times more than I want to get inside his pants. I really do. And strangely, as our friendship has strengthened the past few weeks, my sexual attraction to him has waned and my attraction to my wife has increased!!! Ohmigosh! Weird!!

Read on ...

Because of this guy, basically, I have not posted anything here in more than two months. My "need for men" pretty much has been satisfied by his friendship, for good or for bad. To be honest, I have not even logged onto JUB in two months. I have barely looked at porn.

Remarkably, meanwhile, my attraction to women in general and my wife in particular HAS INCREASED! This is truly odd. I am in the middle of an awakening, I think -- sexual, yes, but more than anything, emotional. And I want to share it with you, particularly those of you who fashion yourself as "bi" in one way or another. I'm finding all of this absolutely remarkable, and to a degree damn fun.

All right, more about this guy and me. He's met my wife two times now, most recently about a week ago after I had him over to the house and my wife came home toward the end of our visit. The three of us chatted for a good while, then it was time for him to go. There was a hug. Him, and me. He initiated it. I returned it, of course, even though he's about 7 inches taller than me! My wife just stood there, fairly surprised, but smiling.

This hugging stuff is but one bit of evidence that with this man I have built the most amazing friendship I could ever imagine. It is an absolutely, thoroughly amazing friendship. He has told me things that he says he's told maybe one other person in his life. Maybe he's fibbing, but I don't think so. One thing he told me he said he had never told anyone. As for this woman he's pursuing, he shares his innermost thoughts with me, stuff I will never, ever disclose to anyone.

I should point out that I'm a damn good listener. I always have been. I keep confidences. "I trust you completely," he said. And he can trust me, completely. I might not have made a good male friend in a lot of years, but I've NEVER lost one ...

Anyway, I've shared my innermost thoughts with him too. Yes, guys, five days ago I told him the BIG secret, the secret that I'm attracted to men.

WOW! I DID IT!!

I was having a bit of a crisis day, so I dropped the bombshell while at work and over the phone, for good or for bad. I dropped it after I shared some frustration over my waning attraction to my wife. He then gave me some frank feedback in which he told me point-blank that my wife might have a few extra pounds, but that she is an attractive woman, an awesome woman quite frankly, and that there has to be something else going on than just her looking her age.

He, of course, was right. She is awesome, and there's a lot more going on. This is pretty much the exchange, as I remember it:

"Do you have at least 10 minutes?" I asked.

"Sure buddy. Anything for you."

"OK, here goes."

A pause and then ...

"I'm not gay," I said. "But I'm not straight, either."

With barely a pause, he laughed. He LAUGHED!! He didn't hang up. He didn't gasp. He didn't sit speechless. He didn't say "you're kidding."

He laughed!

And then ...

"Oh, realllly!?," he said. "In-ter-esting."

"Yes, it is interesting. Welcome to my world."

"I had no clue."

"I hide it well."

"Yes, you sure do."

At that point, I was crying, more or less, and I told him it was the most difficult thing I had told anyone in my life. He was at work too, but he listened, and gave me all the time I needed. He didn't freak. He acknowledged how difficult it must have been to say those words, and he let me say my piece. He checked in on me later in the day, just to see how I was doing. I thanked him profusely for not "running away from me."

"Why would I do that?" he asked.

He said that my bombshell would change nothing between us. I, of course, had my doubts about that one. I mean, after you tell a guy you're attracted to guys, how can that not change everything, right?

Well, nothing has changed. Not yet, anyway. If anything, our friendship has gotten stronger. And the night of my "outing," it was my wife and I who were at an "event." Guys, this is truly odd, but I looked around the room at the men AND women and just appreciated the physical attractiveness of both, with not a shred of guilt. None. A few hot guys, some good-looking women. Yum! Then I did what I haven't done in maybe a year. I took my wife's hand, and held it, and cradled her arm. I felt the love between us. It was awesome. Confusing, yes. But awesome. She, of course, wondered what in the hell was going on.

I slept well that night. My buddy checked in with me first thing in the morning to make sure I was OK. I assured him I was most certainly OK, and I told him about holding my wife's hand. He was 100 percent happy for me!

Throughout that day I felt liberated. SOMEBODY KNOWS! He and I went out for a beer that night. (He's got some non-relationship-oriented shit going on, too -- I've been a great buddy to him, too.) By me sharing my sexual orientation, our friendship has gotten even stronger, no doubt about it. I thanked him up and down, told him how appreciative I was for our great friendship, and that while I did not expect to dwell on my sexual orientation, I truly appreciated him listening. The night ended, again, with a hug. He initiated it. Obviously, he's not afraid of catching the "gay germ" from a guy like me. I always wondered. I mean, he didn't grab my ass of course, but he didn't shy away from physical expression either. Isn't that something??

And true to form, the last few days we've continued on as before. My bombshell appears to be no big deal. I've talked about my sexual orientation a little, but not a lot. I really don't think this guy has a homophobic bone in his body, and does not doubt bisexuality. "I truly believe you're born with the attractions you end up with." I agree. He really doesn't care what I am or am not. This is amazing! I could not be more fortunate.

I also told him that I need to tell my wife about my attraction to guys. He agrees, but cautions against doing it immediately.

Thoughts?

My latest plan is to get some counseling first, so I can keep figuring out who in the hell I am. And I've got a couple books I need to read. (Has anyone read a book called "Half Straight"? It seems to be my story ...) But I really think my wife has a right and a need to know this about me.

That being said, I am going to wait until after the holidays to tell her. I need to keep thinking, do some reading, and yes keep feeling. By "outing" myself to one person, a most amazing thing has happened: I am in tune with my emotions more than I have been in years, probably since I was a teenager. Emotions, I am discovering, are extremely important to me. I really had no clue. I need to feel emotions, and I need to feel emotionally connected not just to women but to men. This is me. I need the m4m emotional attraction more than the physical attraction, I think.

The past few days, my wife has noticed a difference in me, bigtime. She can tell that this friend has had a pretty remarkable effect on me, and she seems fine with it so far. At Thanksgiving, she was talking about what an amazing guy he is -- to her family, no less. Today, I shared how I had made a mistake by not making "guy friends" after we had gotten married. She agreed, and seems to support me completely.

But she needs to know this about me, this gay side of me. When she finds out, I don't think she'll laugh like my buddy did. But, like him, I don't think she'll run either. She's pretty damn open-minded. We know tons of gay folks. And she's told me for years that she's surprised I'm straight. Geez, think I can take a clue? Good Lord.

But of course, if I were her, I would ask whether I have acted on these desires. The answer to that, as I made clear in my posts, is yes, I have acted on them, and while married. And I will not lie about this. I am done lying to people who deserve to know the truth. It will be very difficult, but I will tell the truth, and the truth is, I have had three craigslist hookups with married guys -- one that involved some completely safe body contact, another that was JO in a hotel room where we watched each other come, one that involved feeling each other up in a parking lot.

The truth is, I liked watching the guy come, but the other two hookups I didn't like much. To be honest, I went away from the last encounter pretty damn disgusted -- both with the other not-very-attractive guy, and with myself.

My explanation for the exploration, if not my excuse, is that "I had to know." Of course, I should've done this when I was 14, or maybe 24, and not 42, which is what I am now. But I just had to know what it was like to be with a guy. I HAD TO KNOW!! And now, I do. And while parts of it were OK -- all right, better than OK -- on balance it wasn't fantastic. Not for me. That's how I am, I guess. I can totally see how and why guys have great sex with each other, but I'm not sure I ever could. Hmm.

Quite frankly, I like the feel of a naked, smooth, sensual woman in my arms a lot more than a hairy-chested man. That being said, I liked watching that guy have an orgasm in his hotel room. It was, quite frankly, cool to watch his most private of moments, to see his masculine sexual passion and testosterone-driven energy, and to watch his semen spew into his hand. Mmm. I'm getting hard writing those words. I like the male orgasm -- mine, but also those of other men, if I find them otherwise attractive. And I have to be honest with myself: I wouldn't mind seeing this again, particularly on a guy like him who was, in all honesty, pretty hot. He was a college athlete in his day, and still in great shape! He would've caught my eye at the gym, no doubt about it, and I got to see him cum! Mmmm.

This is a part of me. I enjoyed my experience in that hotel room. I'm not sure I need to get into this detail with my wife, but, well, this is who I am ...

As for the third guy, though, he wasn't hot in the least. I touched his hard dick, there in his pickup truck, but I didn't feel any connection with his tube of flesh or with him. It was, frankly, yucky. First chance I got, I washed my hands.

So I think I'm probably done with that craigslist shit. But if my wife asks, I feel that I need to be honest -- honest about being attracted to the sexual side of good-looking guys, but also honest about not being so crazy about actually having sexual contact with them. This appears to be where I'm at, on this Saturday after Thanksgiving 2009 at least. Tomorrow, maybe it'll be different. And there appear to be plenty of guys like me, judging by the "brokestraightboys" stuff out there.

And I need to be honest with her and with myself. These feelings will never, ever go away. I should have told my wife this before we were married, but I didn't, because I was so fucking hot for her at the time. It's my fault, I guess. But so it goes.

I of course hope my wife won't go away. My love for her has grown (or been rekindled) a lot in just the last few days -- because of me coming out to my friend. This is truly odd, and amazing, and remarkable. If women only knew how complex we guys can be!!

And I hope to God my friend isn't going away either. The first week of our friendship, he said the following: "I feel like we're going to be friends for a very, very long time." I think he's right. To say I'm lucky to have found him is an understatement. Maybe I'll get to be in his wedding.

Well, that's my update. Lots going on in my life. I'm giving thanks on this Thanksgiving weekend. I feel I have a lot to be thankful for. I hope you do, too.

I was gonna blue note all over your post but that's not necessary... Your guy reminds me of a guy I used to know. He identified as straight, made every attempt to chase poon.. but at the same time was the single most touchy feely person I have yet to meet. Hands in contact all the time. The whole I'm gonna look directly into your eyes everytime you speak. Hugs for hugs sake and all the appropriate times as well. After I came out to him, he started getting curious. Wanted to watch porn with me often.. Would make sure I was noticing the cock of the guys and asking my opinion. Eventually it got to the point of him asking me if I would ever consider doing anything physical with him.. I said no. I wasn't physically attracted to him so what would be the point? That's what I felt, but he was told it would ruin our friendship.

I'm not saying your guy is like that. But what I will say is that the gamut of human sexuality is wide and varied. Probably as varied as humanity itself. I am truly happy that you have connected with this man on the level you have. I am truly happy that you have found a renewed passion for your wife. But don't get stupid. Just cause your man is of a higher level of human and didn't punch you in the face, doesn't mean you can in turn tell your wife of your specific personal attractions.

What you and your wife have is there because you both have chosen to put out there certain levels of information, energy, and emotional investment. You have lived damn near your whole life with your heart in the closet. Just cause you stuck out a toe, (and your cock a couple times) doesn't mean you have to come rushing out with fairy wings on. Think of your wife, and think of your self. Think of your friend, and think of your marriage. But most importantly think.

You know the players in this act of your life better than any of us. You can anticipate the reactions and after affects better than any of us. SO do your homework. Live and love. Just be honest.

 

[NotSoStraight67]

It's been two weeks since I've posted, and guys, I continue to ride what I think is a much-needed and imho remarkable wave of emotional and sexual awakening. I really appreciate you reading, and your PMs. Someday maybe I can help others, once I figure out who I am.

My basic situation: I'm 42, married to a woman for 11 years, but felt an emotional rush of attraction toward another man in mid-September. He has turned out to be an AMAZING friend, and actively seeks to connect with me on what I'd describe as an emotional level, several times a day. The feeling and reciprocity are 100 percent mutual. But he's also pretty damn straight, sexually at least. I think. And I'm not. He's been pursuing a woman the last few weeks, with -- from what he says -- spectacular results. I'll be honest. The result for me has been a tinge of jealousy, but also, strangely, a lack of physical attraction to him -- maybe because I know he's not going to go there with me, maybe because I value his friendship more than what's down his pants, perhaps both or something else.

And, as I explain below, another result is that I feel a lot more attracted to my wife, physically and emotionally.

In the last two weeks ...

I sort of crashed four days after my last post. I was having a horrible day -- very confused about who I was. It had been a good few days. My buddy had been out of town on a rather stressful trip for him. We texted, emailed, called, etc., frequently -- about his situation, and about his relationship with his woman. I enjoyed it, helping him, listening, offering a few insights from a married guy's perspective, and connecting with him remotely. (Despite my situation, I do think I can bring some perspective from 11 years of marriage.)

But then I crashed. I'll be honest: Part of it might've been a realization that he and I, most likely, will never have a "romantic" relationship.

When I was at my worst, he ended up giving me a ride home -- again -- and there in the car I shared my confusion with him. Not about him, but with him. I told him how I felt I had to tell my wife about my m4m attractions. I also shared with him a few more details about my latter two vanilla craigslist hookups (jackoff in a hotel room, touchy feely in a car). He listened non-judgmentally, with neither a sense of surprise nor of being turned on, and said: "Look, there is another option. You don't have to tell her. You really don't."

I sort of sat there, stunned. He was right. My image of marriage is that it involves 100 percent transparency to be entirely happy and fulfilled. I'm not sure that's true. Maybe, but maybe not. There is a line, for the good of both of us, and the third person who is "The Relationship."

And then, he was off to his woman. They spent most of the weekend together, but I saw him twice at the common "events" that brought us together in the first place. We chatted as we could about his great weekend, and his feelings for this woman -- not just sexually, but the fact that he thought he had found his soulmate.

Over the weekend, interestingly I was OK with him and with myself. He checked in with me to see how I was doing, and I told him the truth -- that the talk in the car had helped, that I appreciated him listening, that he had made good points, and I was hanging in there.

Looking back on it, I also think that his excitement about his "soul mate" rubbed off on me. It rekindled the feelings I had for my wife, 14 years ago when I met her. The feelings he described and continues to describe were and are almost identical to what I had experienced -- total comfort with the other person, a desire to open up, to explore sexually but also to just hang, and to cuddle, and drink coffee, and a couple glasses of wine, and just enjoy each other as human beings.

By the end of the weekend, I wanted what he had. I had it once, and I wanted it back.

And then, Sunday night, a bombshell. I had the first "sex dream" involving my wife in probably two years.

WTF?

I woke up hard, and horny. We didn't do it, and still haven't for tooo long, but I shared this fact with my buddy, and he was pretty fascinated by it. I guess I am, too.

That was a week ago tonight. The last week has been a bizarre roller-coaster of physical/emotional identity-searching for me. My wife and I ended up going out to dinner Tuesday night. One thing led to another, and I ended up sharing some stuff with her about my mother's death when I was a teenager. She knew my mother had died, of course, but I had NEVER told anyone some of the vivid details from that day, the deathbed scene basically. For some reason, I told her in a restaurant, that night. I ended up basically sobbing. So, of course, was she. The poor waiter undoubtedly thought we were breaking up ...

Anyway, that experience -- of letting myself be vulnerable -- prompted my wife to look at me with eyes I haven't seen in years. I shared with her that I knew I have been emotionally unavailable, and that I'm working on it. She asked whether I might see a counselor. I said that already was in the works, and that my buddy had helped me realize I needed one. I reiterated that he's been a pretty amazing presence in my life, and that I have no intention for him to go away. She seems more than fine with that, mostly because she sees that he's having a good effect on me, but also because she just plain likes him. He's very likable. He smiles more than anyone I think I've ever known.

Then she said: "What else is going on? Tell me."

Of course there's something else going on. That's why I'm posting here! And that night, when we got home, I almost told her about my m4m attractions, but I didn't -- mainly because I had had a martini and glass of red wine, but I was sober enough to know that if I tell her, it needs to be when I'm 100 percent sober. Plus, we both had busy days at work the next day ...

I'm not sure whether I'll tell her. I have more thinking to do. I do know I'm more attracted to her than I have been in a long time.

Meanwhile, the last few days, I have been looking at guys a lot more -- not online, but around town, during lunch, etc. They look EVEN MORE DELICIOUS! But so have women! Especially my wife. Cripes! And I have honestly been celebrating this, celebrating that it's OK to look at both, that I'm not going to hell or divorce court, that it's normal to find men yummy, and that I'm not going to change. Ever. The result is that I feel more alive than I have in years, maybe since I was a boy, before adolescence when this baggage started weighing on me.

So a few days ago, I pulled up some of my favorite gay porn, and it just wasn't turning me on like it had. I did what I'm not sure I've ever done: closed up the laptop and the pants.

Friday, I said "wtf" and went trolling for some straight porn. I hadn't looked at any in years. Good lord, in 3 minutes I ended up harder than I have been in a long time. Don't get me wrong: I chose porn with great-looking guys in it, and I fixated on them for much of the time. But the scenarios -- of M and F starting dressed, and undressing each other, and my anticipation of what BOTH of them would look like under their clothes -- were total turn-ons to me. It had been awhile. I loved watching the guys get hard, and getting head. But I also liked what the guys did with the women's breasts, sucking on them, rubbing their dicks on them. Mmmm. Made me think about what my wife feels like! And I enjoyed watching the m4w intercourse a LOT more than anal intercourse between guys. Yet, I liked it best when the guys blew their loads so I could see it, as opposed to inside their women. I've always been fascinated and way turned on by guys at that ultimate moment of arousal. I like that, A LOT! Yet, my first craigslist hookup (which included body contact and kissing) did not turn me on in the least, except for when he made himself cum.

Hmm ...

I'm finding this almost unbelievably complex. This morning, at this writing, I'm celebrating but also trying to understand this complexity. This is a big step for me, away from feeling guilty about this or thinking I'm abnormal as I've been thinking since I was probably 10.

If I had to categorize myself and my bisexuality at this moment, I'd say that I think I'm more physically attracted to men but prefer the physical touch on and from a woman, and that I'm equally attracted to men and women emotionally. Of course, I have more searching to do, but this is where I'm at, right now.

A year ago, I would've considered finding a counselor to get the gayness counseled out of me. I have no such thoughts now. This site, and to be honest several bi sites, have helped me realize that I am normal, and this is normal. I would benefit from a counselor, but sorry, I am not going to one with any Christian affiliation. Christianity is what helped get me into this mess.

Where does all this end -- with my buddy, and my wife? I frankly have no idea. But I'm also learning that it's OK to not have all the answers, that sexual/human/emotional attraction is a drain but also fun and mysterious, and that the flavor of religion I grew up with screwed me up royally.

That's just me, and I'm being honest.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Lucas07]

To be quite honest.. reading your post i have it really seems like you're really still confused. Almost evasive and trying to cover things up. But hey, that's just how i read it.

anyway, i really wish you all the best! I really do hope that at the end of the day (or after typing your entries) you truly find yourself smiling and fulfilled.

Like what fetaby said- live and love.

hugs

 

[Lube]

Oh, you poor thing!

You're still in that denial/justification stage, where you have to prove to yourself that you still find women as attractive as men. With time, that will pass. You need to give it time.

Life will continue to be a rollercoaster for weeks and, probably, months.

I think you should find some gay friends. Role models, really. Guys who you respect and can learn from, without having sex with. How do gay guys act? How do (out) gay guys interact with coworkers? with family? with friends?

In other words, what's it like to be a modern out gay man in America?

See how they respect themselves, and other people (straight & gay) respect them.

Jettison all this religious baggage, and see that gay can be very normal.

See how gay men love themselves and respect themselves.

You are so terrified.

 

[Kyanimal]

"NotSoStr8" ...

The changes in your perspectives, from your first post to this last one, have been quite eye-opening. Not only for You, but, also, for those of us reading of your "journey". Many of us have gone through the very same things. Yes, it is quite "normal", even though individually unique. I feel you've been making great progress, but there seems to be a longer way to go.

It's obvious that your interactions with your buddy, and even in this forum, have helped give you an "outside look" to rebound/reflect what has been going on inside your own mind. And, that being a help, and generally a "good thing", is precisely why I encourage you to still seek out a counselor of some sort.

A professional counselor's main purpose should be to act as a neutral "sounding board" to help you reach your own "answers". Yes ... you may likely get "there" on your own, but a good counselor can help you reach some solid conclusions all that much sooner.

If I were you, I would check out the available GLBT resources in your community, and at least get in touch with one, or two, that you think you will be comfortable with. They, in turn, can refer you to further resources that might be able to assist you in your "Quest". And, that may, or may not, include "formal" counseling. If nothing else, they, themselves, can simply be someone else that you can talk to.

Wishing You all the Very Best!!

And, of course, no matter what ...

Keep smilin'!!
Chaz

 

[fetaby]

It's been two weeks since I've posted, and guys, I continue to ride what I think is a much-needed and imho remarkable wave of emotional and sexual awakening.Att: Lube. I really appreciate you reading, and your PMs. Someday maybe I can help others, once I figure out who I am.

My basic situation: I'm 42, married to a woman for 11 years, but felt an emotional rush of attraction toward another man in mid-September. He has turned out to be an AMAZING friend, and actively seeks to connect with me on what I'd describe as an emotional level, several times a day. The feeling and reciprocity are 100 percent mutual. But he's also pretty damn straight, sexually at least. I think. And I'm not. He's been pursuing a woman the last few weeks, with -- from what he says -- spectacular results. I'll be honest. The result for me has been a tinge of jealousy, but also, strangely, a lack of physical attraction to him -- maybe because I know he's not going to go there with me, maybe because I value his friendship more than what's down his pants, perhaps both or something else.

And, as I explain below, another result is that I feel a lot more attracted to my wife, physically and emotionally.

In the last two weeks ...

I sort of crashed four days after my last post. I was having a horrible day -- very confused about who I was. It had been a good few days. My buddy had been out of town on a rather stressful trip for him. We texted, emailed, called, etc., frequently -- about his situation, and about his relationship with his woman. I enjoyed it, helping him, listening, offering a few insights from a married guy's perspective, and connecting with him remotely. (Despite my situation, I do think I can bring some perspective from 11 years of marriage.)

But then I crashed. I'll be honest: Part of it might've been a realization that he and I, most likely, will never have a "romantic" relationship.

When I was at my worst, he ended up giving me a ride home -- again -- and there in the car I shared my confusion with him. Not about him, but with him. I told him how I felt I had to tell my wife about my m4m attractions. I also shared with him a few more details about my latter two vanilla craigslist hookups (jackoff in a hotel room, touchy feely in a car). He listened non-judgmentally, with neither a sense of surprise nor of being turned on, and said: "Look, there is another option. You don't have to tell her. You really don't."

I sort of sat there, stunned. He was right. My image of marriage is that it involves 100 percent transparency to be entirely happy and fulfilled. I'm not sure that's true. Maybe, but maybe not. There is a line, for the good of both of us, and the third person who is "The Relationship."

And then, he was off to his woman. They spent most of the weekend together, but I saw him twice at the common "events" that brought us together in the first place. We chatted as we could about his great weekend, and his feelings for this woman -- not just sexually, but the fact that he thought he had found his soulmate.

Over the weekend, interestingly I was OK with him and with myself. He checked in with me to see how I was doing, and I told him the truth -- that the talk in the car had helped, that I appreciated him listening, that he had made good points, and I was hanging in there.

Looking back on it, I also think that his excitement about his "soul mate" rubbed off on me. It rekindled the feelings I had for my wife, 14 years ago when I met her. The feelings he described and continues to describe were and are almost identical to what I had experienced -- total comfort with the other person, a desire to open up, to explore sexually but also to just hang, and to cuddle, and drink coffee, and a couple glasses of wine, and just enjoy each other as human beings.

By the end of the weekend, I wanted what he had. I had it once, and I wanted it back.

And then, Sunday night, a bombshell. I had the first "sex dream" involving my wife in probably two years.

WTF?

I woke up hard, and horny. We didn't do it, and still haven't for tooo long, but I shared this fact with my buddy, and he was pretty fascinated by it. I guess I am, too.

That was a week ago tonight. The last week has been a bizarre roller-coaster of physical/emotional identity-searching for me. My wife and I ended up going out to dinner Tuesday night. One thing led to another, and I ended up sharing some stuff with her about my mother's death when I was a teenager. She knew my mother had died, of course, but I had NEVER told anyone some of the vivid details from that day, the deathbed scene basically. For some reason, I told her in a restaurant, that night. I ended up basically sobbing. So, of course, was she. The poor waiter undoubtedly thought we were breaking up ...

Anyway, that experience -- of letting myself be vulnerable -- prompted my wife to look at me with eyes I haven't seen in years. I shared with her that I knew I have been emotionally unavailable, and that I'm working on it. She asked whether I might see a counselor. I said that already was in the works, and that my buddy had helped me realize I needed one. I reiterated that he's been a pretty amazing presence in my life, and that I have no intention for him to go away. She seems more than fine with that, mostly because she sees that he's having a good effect on me, but also because she just plain likes him. He's very likable. He smiles more than anyone I think I've ever known.

Then she said: "What else is going on? Tell me."

Of course there's something else going on. That's why I'm posting here! And that night, when we got home, I almost told her about my m4m attractions, but I didn't -- mainly because I had had a martini and glass of red wine, but I was sober enough to know that if I tell her, it needs to be when I'm 100 percent sober. Plus, we both had busy days at work the next day ...

I'm not sure whether I'll tell her. I have more thinking to do. I do know I'm more attracted to her than I have been in a long time.

Meanwhile, the last few days, I have been looking at guys a lot more -- not online, but around town, during lunch, etc. They look EVEN MORE DELICIOUS! But so have women! Especially my wife. Cripes! And I have honestly been celebrating this, celebrating that it's OK to look at both, that I'm not going to hell or divorce court, that it's normal to find men yummy, and that I'm not going to change. Ever. The result is that I feel more alive than I have in years, maybe since I was a boy, before adolescence when this baggage started weighing on me.

So a few days ago, I pulled up some of my favorite gay porn, and it just wasn't turning me on like it had. I did what I'm not sure I've ever done: closed up the laptop and the pants.

Friday, I said "wtf" and went trolling for some straight porn. I hadn't looked at any in years. Good lord, in 3 minutes I ended up harder than I have been in a long time. Don't get me wrong: I chose porn with great-looking guys in it, and I fixated on them for much of the time. But the scenarios -- of M and F starting dressed, and undressing each other, and my anticipation of what BOTH of them would look like under their clothes -- were total turn-ons to me. It had been awhile. I loved watching the guys get hard, and getting head. But I also liked what the guys did with the women's breasts, sucking on them, rubbing their dicks on them. Mmmm. Made me think about what my wife feels like! And I enjoyed watching the m4w intercourse a LOT more than anal intercourse between guys. Yet, I liked it best when the guys blew their loads so I could see it, as opposed to inside their women. I've always been fascinated and way turned on by guys at that ultimate moment of arousal. I like that, A LOT! Yet, my first craigslist hookup (which included body contact and kissing) did not turn me on in the least, except for when he made himself cum.

Hmm ...

I'm finding this almost unbelievably complex. This morning, at this writing, I'm celebrating but also trying to understand this complexity. This is a big step for me, away from feeling guilty about this or thinking I'm abnormal as I've been thinking since I was probably 10.

If I had to categorize myself and my bisexuality at this moment, I'd say that I think I'm more physically attracted to men but prefer the physical touch on and from a woman, and that I'm equally attracted to men and women emotionally. Of course, I have more searching to do, but this is where I'm at, right now.

A year ago, I would've considered finding a counselor to get the gayness counseled out of me. I have no such thoughts now. This site, and to be honest several bi sites, have helped me realize that I am normal, and this is normal. I would benefit from a counselor, but sorry, I am not going to one with any Christian affiliation. Christianity is what helped get me into this mess.

Where does all this end -- with my buddy, and my wife? I frankly have no idea. But I'm also learning that it's OK to not have all the answers, that sexual/human/emotional attraction is a drain but also fun and mysterious, and that the flavor of religion I grew up with screwed me up royally.

That's just me, and I'm being honest.

Thanks for listening.

Once again, I can't pick it all apart. Who has the time for that these days. But, I do want to say this. I don't think Lube is 100% correct in his assertion that you're in a denial/justification phase. In fact, I believe I have a problem with the whole concept of "phase." Because, even if something changes, and what is in the past isn't the same as what's in the present or future. That doesn't invalidate what was there, ya know. That "phase" existed and the feelings and actions and results are real. To pigeon hole it into a shoebox by calling it just a phase is kinds insulting. But that's all just personal opinion.

I do agree with him on finding some gay people to hang with. Take Lube's suggestion and find some gays that respect themselves and see how they interact. (ask questions, I've not met a gay man that doesn't love to be interviewed)

But more over, calm the hell down with the whole thing. It seems to be all consuming. Your daily routine isn't made of sex from the time you wake to the time you sleep. So why is it in your thought processes as much as it is. And I may be getting the wrong idea, and that isn't the case. But to let it flavor your mood to the point of being in a funk cause your never to be man crush is finding his kicks with a philly? No thank you.

You obviously have the love. You have it for your wife. You have it for da guy. But I'm not sensing a whole hell of a lot left for your self.

There's only one way to get it though and that's to live. Go out, live your life up to the best of your ability. Do the things you want to do, and see if it all doesn't start clicking back into place. You're wife looking hot to you again. You waking up feeling randy and wanting to fuck.

I highly suggest channeling that energy back into the relationship you have with your wife. And if you do find that the attractions to men isn't being satisfied by the relationship you have to superfriend. Then you can start worrying.

You are in a pickle, but please take the time to think about the other people who don't have the blessings you have and then take a minute to appreciate the fact that you do.

Gotta know where your at before you can get where you're going, yeah?