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We're Not Serious

I think he is serious, but I think that not going to work for a week is a bit ludicrous. Most people wouldn't have jobs to come back to if they did this.

I think the not spending money idea isn't bad.

Change isn't going to happen overnight though as much as we might want it to.
 
We should be fighting for DADT and marriage and anti-bullying laws and voting out the homophobes.

Let's not turn this into a marriage vs. anti-bullying fight when both are important and essential to equality.

illgetbi, I'm not sure how you can make it happen overnight. The Civil Rights Act didn't happen overnight and we still haven't eradicated racism. What makes you think homophobia is going to be different?
 
Are you for real?

You can not honestly think that picking up a hammer is going to help. Do you?

Try stating your case first. Why should gays marry, Why should we openly serve in the military, Why do we deserve equal rights. Answer those questions and convice the average human and then you can make progress. You need to prove you are worthy of something before it will happen.

Violance will NEVER help your cause.
 
Why not quiet protests with placards and such in front of your local government buildings requesting (demanding?) equality? Announce it to the media and see if they will cover it. A few weeks ago, a photo was posted here during one of Phelps' protest in which counter-protesters stood on the opposite side of the street, and a lot of them were straight people. You might get counter-protesters as well, but you quite likely will gather a number of straight and gay people to join your group. Repeat the protests and they will catch on and copy-cat protests will spring up everywhere.

Hey. It works for Phelps and the Teabaggers and look at the national/world attention they get. Keep going with the protests until you get the same attention. Maybe then the government take real notice.

I don't think you need to arrange a march on Washington. Start small right there at home.
 
Legally murder, harassment and abuse are all crimes in and of themselves. Bullying is not. Lack of enforcement is the reason why these things continue to happen and it's partly because being gay is not supported by society as seen through our lack of equality in marriage and the military.

I refuse to put marriage and DADT on the backburner. It should be on the same page as anti-bullying and better enforcement of our laws and making hate crime laws federal.
 
I don't think that's right, but bullying hasn't even been something that has been in the mainstream consciousness until recently and really should be the domain of the schools who aren't doing enough to enforce consequences for bullying. The other aspects of bullying including harassment and assault are already covered under other laws. People have been fighting for hate crime laws lately in addition to DADT and marriage.

I don't understand your either/or thinking.
 
It's kind of sad that some people actually think like this... I mean really. So, rioting and violence is the best way to prove to people that we are just like them and that we deserve equal rights and fair treatment? OBVIOUSLY. Why wouldn't that work?! Come on guys, don't be stupid.
 
I still think a quiet protest is the best way to start, and it takes only 1 person to get it started. People will join.
 
Firstly, don't blame laws, legislative procedures, religious organisations or political figures.

The blame lays at our's, our family's, our friend's and society's feet - and that is where change begins.

Firstly, if you're not out, then GET OUT THAT CLOSET!

You are doing nothing to assist overturning anti-gay legislation or creating new equality legislation by staying invisible - and you can't be a role model for people to turn to when they need advice or strength.

If you're American, write to your Governors, Senators and the President everytime there's a death caused by anti-gay bullying or homophobic violence. Log onto media sites (local & national TV, radio, newspapers) and leave your comments. Do the same if there's a piece of legislation you disagree with. Do the same for any anti-gay news reporting. Let them know how angry you are. Get your family and friends to do the same.

Be visible, let people know that you're a human being - not a monster. Get involved with local organisations - gay and straight. Engage in discussions wherever possible.

It has to start at grass roots level.

If you're not American, you can still lobby your own country's politicians to put pressure on the States to bring to an end their discriminatory laws. You can still contact the American politicians direct and tell them how their legislation is damaging their image and respect abroad. And you can also get your friends and family to do the same.

Getting laws passed doesn't stop the bigotry festering in people's minds, it doesn't change their beliefs or their attitudes - and because of that, a law change without an attitude change isn't anything to celebrate...
 
illgetbi said:
We don't have to prove anything.

If we really believe they are rights (which I believe they are), then it is up to us to take them.

Fuck everyone who stands in our way.
Click to expand...

Well the problem is that there ARE people standing in the way, and if we try to shove them to the side, even more people will come to block us.

Maybe if we ask nicely, we can get through more easily.
 
illgetbi said:
Or it's possible we'll earn some respect when it's seen that we're not backing down.
Click to expand...


Haha, I don't know about you, but riots don't earn respect, they incite anger and resentment at the people causing them and simply make the gap wider between one group and another.
 
I agree with illgetbi. Violence is just about the only thing that gets you anywhere in America.

Blacks were granted legal protection under the law in 1862. It took a civil war to get that. But they didn't actually get rights until they got violent about it themselves 100 years later.

Laborers were abused by employers for decades (arguably centuries) in the USA until the workers got violent in the early twentienth century and rioted. Only then were workers permitted to organize and petition for changes in working environments.

Homosexuality was illegal and a psychiatric disease in the USA until gays rioted at Stonewall and other sites in 1969. Within 4 years, homosexuality was reclassfied from disease to normalcy in DSM-II. That we have made so little progress in the years since may reflect our passivity in agitating for reform.

Americans, at least, don't bother to listen until you attack them. Do you think president Obama would continue pretending we don't exist if buildings were burning?

I'm sorry to say it, but violence works.
 
quasar said:
Be visible, let people know that you're a human being - not a monster. Get involved with local organisations - gay and straight. Engage in discussions wherever possible.

It has to start at grass roots level.
Click to expand...

Exactly! ..|
 
Philly, you can not care about gay marriage, but not letting gays and lesbians get married is still discrimination. Even if you don't think you are going to get married it's important that we are treated equally.
 
Really? Violence? Bear in mind that change does take time.

When Brown v Board of Education and Plessy v Ferguson came down (the HUGE desegrgation cases) the Supreme Court specifically used the language "all due speed" for how quickly the states had to integrate the schools -- and in a lot of states they got 10+ years to do it. The Supreme Court recognized that if they forced it down people's throats right away there'd be pushback, riots, and in the long run, it would take a lot longer for things to happen.

Right now about 52% of people (in total) support "gay rights" in full. But it splits radically along age. People under 40 are far more in favor of it than those over 40. If the issue is pressed strongly now, it will come out pro-gay, but the conservative far-right will get a HUGE victory out of it in terms of their long term fund raising, and it will grant tremendous energy to their base for the next 50 years (this is what happened with Roe v Wade -- it's the "gift that keeps on giving"). If the Supreme Court doesn't decide the issue of Gay Marriage for another 5-10 years, the percentage of voting Americans who fully support gay marriage will have changed from 52% to 60+%, and it will be MUCH harder to make the case that the court is "legislating from the bench" against the will of the people. And this matters. A lot.

In the mean-time, just this year the "Defense of Marriage Act" has been challenged in MA, and a federal judge has ruled it invalid, and that will probably make it to the Supreme Court in the next two years. Assuming it's DOMA is ruled unconstitutional, same-sex civil partners will likely be entitled to Social Security survivor benefits, inheritance rights, and such. From a practical perspective, that's MASSIVE (much bigger than DADT in real-impact terms even if it's less flashy). And the state-by-state campaign for equal rights is gaining momentum.

But the big thing here is to remember you can't force people to give you respect, which is the key issue. That takes time. If sexual-preference were granted full status as a "federal protected class" (same as religion/gender/race) tomorrow, and the Federal Gov't recognized gay marriage, that wouldn't stop the recent suicides, or homophobia, or gay bashing.

On the contrary, it would make the far right even more radical because they would feel railroaded. While progress feels slow, I can think back 10 years and things have changed radically since then. Fast forward another 10 years. I think things are moving in the right direction, and at a pretty good speed.
 
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