On-Topic WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

[palbert]

but isn't the whole reason they had to change plans because of the ACA mandate? which, according to this article, they knew would happen and predicted that, in fact, millions would have to change plans before Obama promised that no one would have to.

clearly, most of these plans will be changing for the better, but purely comparing Obama's statement to what they knew at the time, I don't see how it wasn't a lie (or at least willfully ignorant of their own data).

If the insurer and insured kept the grandfathered plan they would not get a subsidy or tax credit.

 

[rareboy]

Communism has a certain appeal to the weak, but it does not work in practice.
Alas, it is not the democrat plan "for all to participate in ensuring the minimum". It is the democrat plan to reward its voters with welfare at the expense of others. With fewer that half paying income tax, while about half recieve welfare; with 11 million unemployed and millions more more flooding to be hurried to citizenship so they can vote to hurt than fewer and fewer taxpayers, we have abandoned any thought of shared risk.

To be as blunt as possible, the moment that the United States masses wake up to the fact that they are being raped by subsidizing the multi-national companies' egregious profits through helping to lower and maintain the minimum wage to a point where even the working poor cannot afford to live and require government assistance...then we can talk about welfare. It is obscene that in the US there are adults making $8.00 per hour at any job and expected to obtain shelter and food for themselves and family on this slave wage.

If America weaned the corporations off using the State and Federal governments to top up the paycheques of all the poorest paid workers in the country...you'd need less welfare and smaller government.

As long as the taxpayers and the Republican party keeps rewarding corporations by subsidizing their low wage employees, your arguments about welfare and assistance are utterly without merit.

 

[Jack Springer]

This is the latest fad in tea bagger me, me, me mentality & terminology. Seems to be a lack of understanding in what exactly a shared risk is. Because a male has little need for maternity care doesn't mean it will be that way their entire adult life from 18 to death. I even know some gay dudes that got married and have had kids. The same argument could be made that woman shouldn't have to cover prostrate cancer as the great majority of prostrate cancer is with older men, why should a 33 yr old female have to insure for that?
Or the rednecks could say wait a minute I'm a white Alabama born man and have 1 white wife why should I have to have coverage that covers a majority black illness like sickle Cell Anemia?
My private United Health Care policy covered drugs like Viagra at 100% now why in the hell should woman have to cover drugs like Viagra in the policy they pay for?
Wait a minute say the bible thumper in the Ozarks of Arkansas why should my health plan cover medications and treatment for homosexual AIDS related illness .

What a small mean nasty brain thinks like this, but sadly the walnut sized Einsteins seem to reign supreme in there selfish lack of understanding.
Things like good quality maternity care for pregnant woman benefit all society not just he woman and her new born.

Where does this ignorance and selfish attitude end in our society?

I'm going to assume you've never had to be concerned about whether your health insurance had pregnancy benefits. In the past you might have had to get a special policy for those benefits -- it was not always included. I know people who had to forego their company's health care because it did not include maternity coverage and had to buy it on the open market.

Now you as a man will have to have coverage for your pregnancy and pay extra for it also.


So we don't get off the subject of this thread .. the Administration purposely lied about people keeping their policies plus if people would not be able to keep their current policy, there is a good possibility that they will also not be able to keep their current doctor because different insurance companies have different groups of approved doctors.

Also don't forget that any if there are any changes in policy coverage ... a new policy has to be written and that policy must be written within the guidelines of the ACA. GOTCHA

 

[Jack Springer]

My earlier statement failed to account for exemptions available through the concept of grandfathered health plans. In other words, persons in plans that qualify to be grandfathered can keep their coverage and will be considered in compliance with the ACA personal mandate (no tax penalty). Nonetheless, insurers or employers can take actions that will cause the plan to lose its grandfathered status.

Policies change every year, so I doubt there will be any grandfathered plans in one year.

What a mess.

 

[Benvolio]

To be as blunt as possible, the moment that the United States masses wake up to the fact that they are being raped by subsidizing the multi-national companies' egregious profits through helping to lower and maintain the minimum wage to a point where even the working poor cannot afford to live and require government assistance...then we can talk about welfare. It is obscene that in the US there are adults making $8.00 per hour at any job and expected to obtain shelter and food for themselves and family on this slave wage.

If America weaned the corporations off using the State and Federal governments to top up the paycheques of all the poorest paid workers in the country...you'd need less welfare and smaller government.

As long as the taxpayers and the Republican party keeps rewarding corporations by subsidizing their low wage employees, your arguments about welfare and assistance are utterly without merit.

You missed the point. We are not "a people" as we were at the time of the Constitution, and there can be no sense of shared risk in our society. The democrat policy of diversity and divide and conquer has succeeded.

 

[rareboy]

Bullshit.

 

[palbert]

You missed the point. We are not "a people" as we were at the time of the Constitution, and there can be no sense of shared risk in our society. The democrat policy of diversity and divide and conquer has succeeded.

The tragedy of the commons?

 

[Jack Springer]

^^^

That's enough talk about race.

I ask the moderators to please stop this crazy talk every time something uncomfortable is brought up about President Obama. Throwing out the race card every time to change the subject or make someone defend themselves when they've done nothing wrong is unfair and demeaning to most who want CEP to be a serious discussion.

Phrases have been banned before in CEP ... it's time to ban unfounded race accusations.



This thread is focused on the fact that President Obama lied about people being able to keep their current insurance. He said it OVER and OVER AGAIN for YEARS.

It's a simple topic.

 

[chuck10x]

[Quoted Post: Removed]

www.healthcare.gov/find-premium-estimates
Here is the link to find a policy that fits your budget. It only uses the basic information before you register.
You will notice that it now has a catastrophic plan, cheaper than the Bronze plan that was never included before.
We will see if the horror stories are correct about the prices.
If anyone is inclined, Please post the lowest and highest prices available.

 

[JayQueer]

Obama lied. He said, over & over again -- that if we liked our insurance plan, we could keep it. He lied.

I received a letter from my insurance company telling me that my insurance is being cancelled because it "is not compliant" with Obamacare. I will have to pay over twice my previous monthly premium payments for a new "Obamacare approved" plan.

Turns out I'm not alone. In just the state of CA, there are 2 million people on individual insurance & several hundred thousand people will lose their plan in a matter of weeks -- and will have to pay MORE for their health insurance.

Read this article from the L.A. Times: "Some health insurance gets pricier as Obamacare rolls out"

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-health-sticker-shock-20131027,0,2756077.story#axzz2j9piuZJq

Jennifer Harris used to pay $98 per month for her insurance, but it was cancelled against her will. Her new health insurance plan will now cost her $238 per month. She doesn't qualify for any subsidies or financial assistance because she and her husband earn a total of $80,000 per year. She is about to have a baby and the extra cost from the health insurance will put a strain on her family's budget. So she must pay the extra money for her new "Obamacare" plan or she must pay a fine to the IRS. She has no way of getting out of it.

The best quote in the article:

Pam Kehaly, president of Anthem Blue Cross in California, said she received a recent letter from a young woman complaining about a 50% rate hike related to the healthcare law.

"She said, 'I was all for Obamacare until I found out I was paying for it,'" Kehaly said.

Most Obama supporters thought Obamacare was free insurance. Well, it's free for the very poor. But somebody has to pay for it, and as to be expected with Obama, the middle class will be paying for it.

 

[opinterph]

[STRIKE]Thread closed for review.[/STRIKE]

This thread is now designated On-Topic.

 

[Just_Believe18]

The health plans don't meet minimum standards. It's an overblown story. The minimum premiums these folks were paying weren't helping them. It gave them the illusion of health care at the cost of high deductibles they never would have been able to afford without still going bankrupt.

Fortunately, if you look into the news story, you'll find that the ACA offers tax credits that actually mitigate the premium cost of a better plan.

 

[Kulindahr]

The health plans don't meet minimum standards. It's an overblown story. The minimum premiums these folks were paying weren't helping them. It gave them the illusion of health care at the cost of high deductibles they never would have been able to afford without still going bankrupt.

Fortunately, if you look into the news story, you'll find that the ACA offers tax credits that actually mitigate the premium cost of a better plan.

Yep. I could get the equivalent of my current insurance for about $100/mo.

 

[JayHawk]

Ahhh more smoke and mirrors by the party of blame Obama. I was asked by a writhing, foamy mouthed, Limbaugh-ite today whether I STILL believed that the ACA was a good idea with hundfedsrof thousands losing their insurance. So i relayed signing my mom up for massive reductions.

The response was "You just like him dont you, you just blindly support him no matter"

What I ask the older gentleman was "When will your party start addressing issues and get off BHO's jock, it has failed you so far and will continue to fail you, develop a policy or maybe even two to stand upon"

That is pretty much where the republican party is left. No issues that resound with Americans so they just call names and hope it makes everyone come to their side.

 

[JayQueer]

Ahhh more smoke and mirrors by the party of blame Obama. I was asked by a writhing, foamy mouthed, Limbaugh-ite today whether I STILL believed that the ACA was a good idea with hundfedsrof thousands losing their insurance. So i relayed signing my mom up for massive reductions.

The response was "You just like him dont you, you just blindly support him no matter"

What I ask the older gentleman was "When will your party start addressing issues and get off BHO's jock, it has failed you so far and will continue to fail you, develop a policy or maybe even two to stand upon"

That is pretty much where the republican party is left. No issues that resound with Americans so they just call names and hope it makes everyone come to their side.

JayHawk, this is bigger than just a Democrat vs. Republican thing. There are some nutty Republicans and Tea Partiers out there, but this is about a serious issue re: Obamacare.

That's wonderful that your mother is getting "massive reductions". Some people will benefit under Obamacare, no question. People who were denied insurance before because they had illnesses or conditions, and people who could not afford any insurance at all will have free (or low cost) insurance.

But it's simple math. The money to pay for taking care of hundreds of thousands of very sick and low income Americans has to come from somewhere. And that's the catch. Obamacare works by allowing insurance companies to charge higher monthly insurance fees to younger Americans & middle class Americans to offset the costs the insurance companies pay to take care of the older, poorer, sicker Americans.

And, Obama declared many times -- including in his state of the union speech in 2010 -- in no uncertain terms, that if we already had insurance and liked our plan, we could keep it. Call it a lie, call it misinformation, call it whatever you want.......but what he said was simply not true.

My health insurance is cancelled at the end of the year and I have to switch to an Obamacare plan, which will be over twice the amount I pay now.

Why weren't we informed sooner (like before Obamacare passed & before Obama got re-elected) that some of us would be paying a lot more for our health insurance, while other people would get it for free?

 

[JayQueer]

The health plans don't meet minimum standards. It's an overblown story. The minimum premiums these folks were paying weren't helping them. It gave them the illusion of health care at the cost of high deductibles they never would have been able to afford without still going bankrupt.

Fortunately, if you look into the news story, you'll find that the ACA offers tax credits that actually mitigate the premium cost of a better plan.

1) Americans were told, in no uncertain terms, by President Obama that we could keep our insurance plans if we liked it. It was one of the big selling points for Obamacare because he wanted to reassure everyone that Obamacare was not a massive "government takeover" of insurance. The "insurance marketplace" (that website that doesn't work right despite spending over $600 billion on it), was supposed to be for people who had never had insurance before, or wanted to shop for a new plan. The American public was not told that millions of us would be kicked out of our insurance against our will because of Obamacare.

2) The tax credits only apply if your gross income is up to a certain point. If your income is just barely above that point, you get nothing. Also, the increased cost (even with the tax credits) put a lot of strain on middle-class Americans just struggling to stay afloat in this economy.

 

[frankfrank]

Before I was old enough for Medicare, I think I probably had one of those complete-piece-of-shit insurance policies for which I would have received a cancellation notice. It didn't pay for routine clinic visits, health screenings (physicals), prescriptions (unless while IN a hospital), X-rays, colonoscopies, etc. (Or actually, for some of the tests, it actually DID pay something - $100 - towards some of the tests. In that case it was still nearly like having no insurance.) When I had a bill of more than $26,000 in 2003 when a cancerous kidney was removed, the damned insurance paid less than one-half of the bill, leaving me hanging with a horrible cost to pay myself. Even at that, it took them MORE THAN FIVE MONTHS to pay, and the hospital was on the verge of sending my bill for collection which would have added thousands of dollars to it.

And, of course, I was absolutely trapped FOREVER in that Godawful insurance policy...because I now had a pre-existing condition, and getting a policy from elsewhere was utterly impossible. At the time of the operation, my fears were actually worse - that I would end up NOT bring trapped in that awful policy - because it was *PERFECTLY LEGAL* for the insurer to arbitrary cancel-my-ass on the spot because I was unfortunate enough to get cancer. I was worried far more about THAT happening, than even the risks from my cancer or possible infection.

FORTUNATELY *NONE* OF THOSE THINGS HAPPENED - and in 2011, after a late follow-up and CT-scan and an appointment with an oncologist [cancer doctor], the oncologist actually used the word "CURED" to describe my condition. I thought they NEVER use that word? (I was also charged nearly $7,000 for that CT-scan and the damned insurance only paid $100, so I had to pay nearly $7,000 out of my own pocket!)

If the exact current and the soon-to-be-effective parts of "Obamacare" had all existed in 2004, I would have VERY happily and cheerfully used its provisions to get out of my horrible insurance and actually get a policy that would pay me something better than shit, even if it had cost a couple thousand more****. If "Obamacare" had existed in 2003 I would have had no reason to go through those terrifying worries that I could have continuing cancer and the insurance company could cancel-my-ass and every bit of my life savings could have disappeared.

****Before seeing how horrible the payout was, once they FINALLY paid in 2004 by using whatever minimal and very capricious and arbitrary claim adjustments they used, I never had any reason to think I had awful insurance.

THAT is why people will be paying more...because TERRIBLY INFERIOR policies which pay for almost nothing are not allowed any more.

 

[frankfrank]

My health insurance is cancelled at the end of the year and I have to switch to an Obamacare plan, which will be over twice the amount I pay now.

Other mentions of this that I've seen, mention CANCELLATION NOTICES (rescissions), but yours is the first one I've seen that mentions any kind of time frame. I assumed that everybody was talking about their insurances being canceled effective IMMEDIATELY upon receipt of the letters, perhaps sent via Certified Mail and signed by the no-longer-insured person receiving it.

Possibly somebody else in this thread mentioned a time frame as well, but I admit that I haven't read the entire thread. this makes me curious, now, how much advance notice people are getting. Is there any kind of standard, or does it vary with each insurer? Your timing, so "conveniently" at December 31, makes me suspicious that there is no standard amount of time...or is it to the end of the time period for which premiums have been paid, or what? Or is your "end of the year" only a generic reference to a more specific date which may be something like December 22 or January 4?

I hope that people are given at least SOME time to get replacement insurance, and I mean I hope it's something like 60 days MINIMUM, because it can take a long time to shop around for a new insurance, especially with the website(s) malfunctioning so badly and all.

 

[evanrick]

[Text: Removed] We are talking about people who have insurance policies now. A major purpose of Obamacare is to extort more from those people to make the gift of insurance to those with preexisting illness.

I dont see anything wrong with that.

The people who are chiding Obamcare are the same people that say hes a muslim, hes a terrorist, hostage holders in the tea party. All the same people.

 

[lambdaboy]

Right wing Republican Pigs will do anything to stop this. So glad this American is now also British, and pays nothing for some of the best health care in the world the states are f'd up. What I can not get is if people do not have health care the clog emergency room that must of course take care of them and will never be paid sick..