What are the odds

[Bent-On]

Alright, so I'm twenty-eight years old, currently unemployed and studying Law (third year) and live at my parents place. I'm currently trying to get a job, to combine with my studies, so that I can move out. The difficulty is of course finding one.

Anyway, the idea was that I would put my 'sexuality' on hold until I could move out. I've never really lived on my own, even when I had a job, that is, a dead-end job that went nowhere. I was depressed about my sexuality, and lacked the motivation and drive to find something else. A combination of other factors (emotionally withdrawn alcoholic father (really nice guy though), sociopathic weed-addicted brother (not so nice), marital troubles between my parents, illness in the family, and other stuff) also contributed to my depression.

So I've been practically living like a hermit all these years, with a host of internet friends to keep me company. (None of them knew about my sexuality, and as a result I pushed most of them away.) But I've turned things around, cut off my brother, and I've been hitting the gym, dropped the dead-end job, used my savings to pay for law school. But my studies mostly leave me housebound, which is starting to really get on my nerves. After all this time I simply need a change of scenery. (Also, my neighbors are really bothersome, and fall resoundingly in the nightmare category. And I don't feel like I'm learning anything, even though my grades are relatively decent.)

My parents are lovely people, but I really need to find something for myself. But I suppose that isn't going to happen any time soon, so I've started thinking that I need to find someone for a 'subdued' relationship.

I'm not really prepared to step out of the closet, as I don't know what I'm getting myself into. It dawned on me that I don't even grasp the concept of a relationship. I have trouble expressing my thoughts and feelings, and I mostly come across as abrasive and sarcastic (unintentionally). People simply do not respond well to me in person, and my 'hawkish' facial features aren't much of a help.

What would I be getting myself into if I was to start a relationship with another fellow? I've been friendless and single for so long that it would require a radical paradigm shift in my outlook to open up to another person. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever had a decent conversation with another human being in the form of a verbal exchange. (Now this is a tragic realization.)

Also, I think I have a mildly autistic disorder, that could account for my shortcomings in my verbal communication skills. But whatever, I'm willing to work around this issue and put in the effort.

There are also the practical considerations to think about; such as sexual compatibility; do I even want to have anal sex? And of course the risk of catching something. (Seriously, I still don't understand why people aren't more careful, with all these disastrous diseases floating around.)

So, the problem is that I need to find someone in my area that is willing to put up with me. (Think of the mess that I would be shoveling unto his plate. lol)

I realize that I need someone to find me attractive, but more importantly, I need someone that I find attractive to find me attractive. I think that would solve a lot of problems; I need someone to prop me up, and expend their energy and time on me. Like a 'fixer-upper' or something. Or not even that, I just need an ego boost, and an emotional connection of some sort with another person that I can talk to face-to-face.

But how do you find someone? I'm not even willing to put up my picture on these datings sites, for fear of alerting someone to my sexual inclinations. Not that it would matter to them, but it would to me. It also goes against my nature to advertise myself in such a fashion. It's convenient, but I feel uncomfortable about the use of these websites. As if you're exposing an intimate part of yourself to people that have no business knowing anything about you.

Upon further reflection, perhaps a psychotherapist would be more convenient, but at the moment I would not be able to afford one. Haha.

So, I've spelled out my needs: a job, an ego boost, a friend, a sex life; appreciation, respect, acknowledgment, kindness, compassion -- a future, something to look out for, someone to place your trust in, the feeling like you're going somewhere.

I want a family - wife, children, dog. And straight friends. I want colleagues, and I want casual drink buddies, and I want a dog. I want neighbors that you can casually greet. I want to have a felicitous straight life, but I'll settle for a handsome guy that would want to spend time with me.

To end this rant: homosexuality sucks, and this website really needs a thumbs down emoticon.

 

[altlover85]

But I've turned things around, cut off my brother, and I've been hitting the gym, dropped the dead-end job, used my savings to pay for law school.

Great! You're doing a lot to change things for the better.

There are also the practical considerations to think about; such as sexual compatibility; do I even want to have anal sex? And of course the risk of catching something. (Seriously, I still don't understand why people aren't more careful, with all these disastrous diseases floating around.)

You can have anal sex or not have anal sex, it's up to you. I would go slowly and just figure out what you're comfortable with.

But how do you find someone?

If you aren't comfortable with dating websites, find some time to go to a museum, a theater, a sports game, a concert, or whatever that would get you around people. Maybe you can only do it once a month, but getting out there even a little bit is better than not doing it at all.

Upon further reflection, perhaps a psychotherapist would be more convenient, but at the moment I would not be able to afford one. Haha.

I would make saving for a therapist a priority if at all possible.

I want a family - wife, children, dog. And straight friends. I want colleagues, and I want casual drink buddies, and I want a dog. I want neighbors that you can casually greet. I want to have a felicitous straight life, but I'll settle for a handsome guy that would want to spend time with me.

You can have a family with a man. Why do you want straight friends? Why not just focus on getting friends period, be they gay or straight.

I get that you don't want to be gay, but you are. The sooner you work this out, with the help of a therapist preferably, the better off you'll be.

To end this rant: homosexuality sucks, and this website really needs a thumbs down emoticon.

After you come to accept yourself, you'll find that being gay isn't as awful as you think it is. It's not always great, but then neither is life.

Good luck and get yourself out there, even if it's only once a month. You may also want to try journaling. And obviously keep posting because ranting usually helps me feel better too.

 

[Eagle653]

Wow, this is a lot to digest.

Before you get others involved seriously in your life, I would suggest getting your own head straight. You say you want connection and meaningful relationships with people, which is great, but you also are not clear on your sexuality and seem to be willing to settle for either a man or a woman--someone who will satisfy you and put up with you. Coupled with that is a "dream" (how serious, we don't know) about wife, children, and all that.

Before you let a man or woman become emotionally connected with you, you owe it to them (and to yourself) to have your own head screwed on straight about what it is you really want. Getting involved with a man only to decide later that you want a traditional marriage, with kids, is hardly fair. The same is true about going after a woman/marriage/kids, only to decide no, you really want a man.

Sort it out. Get this clear in your own mind, and THEN go out into the world and form the relationships you ultimately want to have. Doing this backwards will only lead to heartache for you, and others.

Good luck.

 

[Bent-On]

I would make saving for a therapist a priority if at all possible.

Therapists are like dentists, it's very difficult to find a decent one.

You can have a family with a man. Why do you want straight friends? Why not just focus on getting friends period, be they gay or straight.

I get that you don't want to be gay, but you are. The sooner you work this out, with the help of a therapist preferably, the better off you'll be.

Straight friends, for a straight life.

After you come to accept yourself, you'll find that being gay isn't as awful as you think it is. It's not always great, but then neither is life.

To be of the habit to ignore the many drawbacks.

Wow, this is a lot to digest.

Before you get others involved seriously in your life, I would suggest getting your own head straight. You say you want connection and meaningful relationships with people, which is great, but you also are not clear on your sexuality and seem to be willing to settle for either a man or a woman--someone who will satisfy you and put up with you. Coupled with that is a "dream" (how serious, we don't know) about wife, children, and all that.

Yeah, I added that last part just to conclude the rant. I would want to have a wife and kids, the whole package, but I realize that isn't an option, not unless I want to become as miserable as my father.

Before you let a man or woman become emotionally connected with you, you owe it to them (and to yourself) to have your own head screwed on straight about what it is you really want. Getting involved with a man only to decide later that you want a traditional marriage, with kids, is hardly fair. The same is true about going after a woman/marriage/kids, only to decide no, you really want a man.

To be completely honest, I just can't see a future with another man at the moment. The whole sexual dynamic between guys is that of 'domination and submission'. You can't build a relationship on that. But on the other hand, I also realize that a relationship with another guy is possible. I think I just need to meet a number of gay couples in my area that have succesful relationships. Talk to them, to base my expectations on. But how would you go about arranging such a thing?

Sort it out. Get this clear in your own mind, and THEN go out into the world and form the relationships you ultimately want to have. Doing this backwards will only lead to heartache for you, and others.

Good luck.

There are just too many hurdles. It's easier to just stay at home and watch movies.

 

[Seasoned]

Are you in law school or pre-law? In the states law school is a three year program. You have a lot of insight, but as I read through your post I kept reading faster and faster. Was that just me or does your mind tend to race? You will have better peace of mind if you try to live a day at a time. You can have goals so you know what direction you're going, but anything beyond that is a waste of energy.

As I was on my way to a PhD in history I made a right turn, became a chef and then a culinary educator. You must be willing to allow life to do it's work as you do yours.

You have family issues as do most of us. Work on those as best you can as you finish school. If you have some Austism Spectrum Disorder issues, such as Asperger's, you'd make a great addition to a support group because you seem willing to look at your problems in terms of finding solutions. There are books you'd find useful. Besides a support group, you might want to start journaling. Make it a research project and casually observe social behavior and comment on it in your journal. You'll have to be non-obtrusive, so as not to get yourself into trouble, but you could start making concrete observances of whether you behave in the same way as other people.

I am suggesting this behavioral approach because I used it when I was coming out while still married and at age 31. I learned how to make small talk strictly in this fashion, observing how other people did it. I have told friends that I'm an introvert, only to have them double over in laughter. I guess I've gotten good at covering it up.

Your main job now is school because that's how you'll be eventually establish yourself. Don't allow school to suffer but if some of the social issues are tackled you'll find school will be easier.

There's no magic wand, but if you continue to identify and work on problem areas you'll be amazed how much richer your life will become.

 

[Bent-On]

Are you in law school or pre-law? In the states law school is a three year program. You have a lot of insight, but as I read through your post I kept reading faster and faster. Was that just me or does your mind tend to race? You will have better peace of mind if you try to live a day at a time. You can have goals so you know what direction you're going, but anything beyond that is a waste of energy.

As I was on my way to a PhD in history I made a right turn, became a chef and then a culinary educator. You must be willing to allow life to do it's work as you do yours.

Trying to get my bachelor, it's three years in the Netherlands, but I made a slow start, so it's taking somewhat longer. And I suppose I could have structured my post a little bit better.

Make it a research project and casually observe social behavior and comment on it in your journal. You'll have to be non-obtrusive, so as not to get yourself into trouble, but you could start making concrete observances of whether you behave in the same way as other people.

This is a good idea. But I'm not going to join any self-help groups. I don't want to identify myself according to a certain ailment or defect. One of the reasons why I'm so disinclined to join support groups for homosexuality.

Your main job now is school because that's how you'll be eventually establish yourself. Don't allow school to suffer but if some of the social issues are tackled you'll find school will be easier.

But I really need the money, so that I can go out and do stuff. Job experience is also important.

 

[syoBsUtsuJ]

The only thing I can say is "You're right where you're supposed to be [now]."

 

[altlover85]

Therapists are like dentists, it's very difficult to find a decent one.

Understandable.

Straight friends, for a straight life.

You aren't straight though.

To be of the habit to ignore the many drawbacks.

Yes there are drawbacks, but I've found that I was much happier once I came out. Also your quality of life as a gay man can depend on where you are living.

To be completely honest, I just can't see a future with another man at the moment. The whole sexual dynamic between guys is that of 'domination and submission'. You can't build a relationship on that. But on the other hand, I also realize that a relationship with another guy is possible. I think I just need to meet a number of gay couples in my area that have succesful relationships. Talk to them, to base my expectations on. But how would you go about arranging such a thing?

Gay relationships aren't built on the sexual dynamic. They are built on the personalities of the two people involved and their feelings for one another. There is no dominance or submission with my boyfriend. We are generally equals.

There are just too many hurdles. It's easier to just stay at home and watch movies.

While I can understand that too, if it were easy you probably wouldn't have written this thread to begin with.

This is a good idea. But I'm not going to join any self-help groups. I don't want to identify myself according to a certain ailment or defect. One of the reasons why I'm so disinclined to join support groups for homosexuality.

It's not a defect any more than being left-handed is a defect.

 

[rareboy]

I'm sure you guys have heard it all before, but I need to vent my spleen nevertheless -- why homosexuality sucks on a personal level; some random thoughts on the matter. *enters rambling mode*

First off, I'm gay, twenty-eight years old, and still a virgin. In my view there is nothing wrong with me, I never put much of an effort in socializing and meeting other people, and the whole gay culture just put me off.

The notion of having sex with another guy didn't even register with me until I started to genuinely look at gay porn. I was always drawn to the male physique (on television and not in real life) but never really found it to be desirable up-close and in-person. I can't even say that I was attracted to specific male actors. I just liked the idea of an athletic man with charm and charisma, (e.g. Bond or Indiana Jones) especially when they were in a tumultuous relationship with a woman.

It took me some time to grow out of this phase - moving past my fancy and admiration for the male physique, to actually seeing them having sex with one-and-other in downloaded gay porn. Make note, 'them', I never really had the urge to express myself sexually. Even in my sexual fantasies I never really used myself as one of the participants.

Anyway, since last year I've finally started to want to have the urge to have relations with another man, but I've gone so long without sex that I've begun to realize that I don't even need it at this point, I just want the company. To go out and do stuff, e.g. restaurants, museums, nature walks, whatever. But a relationship tends to be built on more than companionship, sex is also required.

But from what I've seen, when gay men come together, misfortune follows. HIV anyone? I mean, goddamn. And how about all the disgusting sexual practices that seem to thrive in the gay community?

I mean what the fuck is up with rimming? Borderline coprophilia anyone? Or what about anal sex? Even in xtube videos the participants don't look like they're enjoying themselves, and these are home movies. As if it's some sort of mass-delusion on the part of gay men world-wide that they should express their delight for anal sex, even though it sucks. Someone described it once as sticking your cock into pumpkin innards. Yum. And the long-term effects of anal sex aren't great either, anal incontinence, to the point where you're forced to wear a diaper when you're older. I mean, who would put themselves through that? I resent the fact that I'm even forced to talk about an anus when it comes to gay sex. I'm comfortable with my anus the way it is, and I don't feel to need to add another activity to my asshole.

And then of course there is the blowjob. Teeth, throat and tongue. Just seems like an ordeal. And I have an overactive gag reflex as well. So I won't be giving it either, not unless they want their cock dissolved by stomach acids. haha

Having said the above, I do want to share my life with another man. I want to be able to rely on someone else, and them on me. I want to sleep together in the same bed, and do stuff together.

So what are your thoughts on the matter? Are there guys here that don't have anal sex? What's it like in your country to be gay?

Just look how far you've come from your first post here on this forum.

Alright, so I'm twenty-eight years old, currently unemployed and studying Law (third year) and live at my parents place. I'm currently trying to get a job, to combine with my studies, so that I can move out. The difficulty is of course finding one.

Anyway, the idea was that I would put my 'sexuality' on hold until I could move out. I've never really lived on my own, even when I had a job, that is, a dead-end job that went nowhere. I was depressed about my sexuality, and lacked the motivation and drive to find something else. A combination of other factors (emotionally withdrawn alcoholic father (really nice guy though), sociopathic weed-addicted brother (not so nice), marital troubles between my parents, illness in the family, and other stuff) also contributed to my depression.

So I've been practically living like a hermit all these years, with a host of internet friends to keep me company. (None of them knew about my sexuality, and as a result I pushed most of them away.) But I've turned things around, cut off my brother, and I've been hitting the gym, dropped the dead-end job, used my savings to pay for law school. But my studies mostly leave me housebound, which is starting to really get on my nerves. After all this time I simply need a change of scenery. (Also, my neighbors are really bothersome, and fall resoundingly in the nightmare category. And I don't feel like I'm learning anything, even though my grades are relatively decent.)

My parents are lovely people, but I really need to find something for myself. But I suppose that isn't going to happen any time soon, so I've started thinking that I need to find someone for a 'subdued' relationship.

I'm not really prepared to step out of the closet, as I don't know what I'm getting myself into. It dawned on me that I don't even grasp the concept of a relationship. I have trouble expressing my thoughts and feelings, and I mostly come across as abrasive and sarcastic (unintentionally). People simply do not respond well to me in person, and my 'hawkish' facial features aren't much of a help.

What would I be getting myself into if I was to start a relationship with another fellow? I've been friendless and single for so long that it would require a radical paradigm shift in my outlook to open up to another person. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever had a decent conversation with another human being in the form of a verbal exchange. (Now this is a tragic realization.)

Also, I think I have a mildly autistic disorder, that could account for my shortcomings in my verbal communication skills. But whatever, I'm willing to work around this issue and put in the effort.

There are also the practical considerations to think about; such as sexual compatibility; do I even want to have anal sex? And of course the risk of catching something. (Seriously, I still don't understand why people aren't more careful, with all these disastrous diseases floating around.)

So, the problem is that I need to find someone in my area that is willing to put up with me. (Think of the mess that I would be shoveling unto his plate. lol)

I realize that I need someone to find me attractive, but more importantly, I need someone that I find attractive to find me attractive. I think that would solve a lot of problems; I need someone to prop me up, and expend their energy and time on me. Like a 'fixer-upper' or something. Or not even that, I just need an ego boost, and an emotional connection of some sort with another person that I can talk to face-to-face.

But how do you find someone? I'm not even willing to put up my picture on these datings sites, for fear of alerting someone to my sexual inclinations. Not that it would matter to them, but it would to me. It also goes against my nature to advertise myself in such a fashion. It's convenient, but I feel uncomfortable about the use of these websites. As if you're exposing an intimate part of yourself to people that have no business knowing anything about you.

Upon further reflection, perhaps a psychotherapist would be more convenient, but at the moment I would not be able to afford one. Haha.

So, I've spelled out my needs: a job, an ego boost, a friend, a sex life; appreciation, respect, acknowledgment, kindness, compassion -- a future, something to look out for, someone to place your trust in, the feeling like you're going somewhere.

I want a family - wife, children, dog. And straight friends. I want colleagues, and I want casual drink buddies, and I want a dog. I want neighbors that you can casually greet. I want to have a felicitous straight life, but I'll settle for a handsome guy that would want to spend time with me.

To end this rant: homosexuality sucks, and this website really needs a thumbs down emoticon.

Oh.

Maybe you haven't come far at all.

What do you want from people here?

You need counselling. Serious, professional counselling.

Because I think your life at this point is a mess and we're not even remotely qualified to give you the guidance and the counselling you desperately need.

 

[TX-Beau]

To be completely honest, I just can't see a future with another man at the moment. The whole sexual dynamic between guys is that of 'domination and submission'. You can't build a relationship on that.

There are just too many hurdles. It's easier to just stay at home and watch movies.

(emphasis mine)

That's just bullshit and probably justification - in fact most gay relationships have less dominance/submission than straight ones. After all that IS the archetypal straight marriage dynamic - that would be dominance/submission. The closet likes to defend itself that way.

It's your life, you have to take control of it. If you're clinically depressed get help, if you're just afraid of being a gay man - well, we've almost all been there and it can be overcome - you just have to stop being afraid.