What do you see in this picture?

[JOHN B]

I am an American, but I really think it's hysterical, and annoying, that Americans are so arrogant to think that everything that happens in the world is influenced by us. Only an American would see that architecture and see 9/11 and think that it was about us. I actually think that those buildings are quite beautiful.

 

[Críostóir]

I hesitate to disagree because I think your immediate, firsthand experience is the finer perspective. However from a greater distance, I believe it's fairer to say that there is a "rough" resemblance than to say there is no resemblance at all.

I would say A is roughly like B ^. I would not say A is nothing like B.

I guess I'd have to agree. What I meant was that there isn't any resemblance that anyone would have been offended by if some ONE hadn't gotten all conspiracy-theory about it and claimed it was a deliberately provocative thing.

I am an American, but I really think it's hysterical, and annoying, that Americans are so arrogant to think that everything that happens in the world is influenced by us. Only an American would see that architecture and see 9/11 and think that it was about us. I actually think that those buildings are quite beautiful.

I agree with all of this except the last sentence, which is, of course, the least important part of it.

 

[TheOscar]

I want to live there! Looks so awesome. I want to live in the popping-out areas, of course!

 

[Kulindahr]

I am an American, but I really think it's hysterical, and annoying, that Americans are so arrogant to think that everything that happens in the world is influenced by us. Only an American would see that architecture and see 9/11 and think that it was about us. I actually think that those buildings are quite beautiful.

I think it's a fun architectural concept executed by a team of cowards. If you're going to hang things "outside the box", don't be wussy about it -- really hang stuff out!

I'd have added at least another 'level' of the 'bulge', plus a bunch down at ground level like they'd fallen, and a whimsical stack on top built so it looked like they were about to tumble at any moment.

Kool concept -- timid designers.

 

[Kulindahr]

I am an American, but I really think it's hysterical, and annoying, that Americans are so arrogant to think that everything that happens in the world is influenced by us. Only an American would see that architecture and see 9/11 and think that it was about us. I actually think that those buildings are quite beautiful.

I think it's a fun architectural concept executed by a team of cowards. If you're going to hang things "outside the box", don't be wussy about it -- really hang stuff out!

I'd have added at least another 'level' of the 'bulge', plus a bunch down at ground level like they'd fallen, and a whimsical stack on top built so it looked like they were about to tumble at any moment.

Kool concept -- timid designers.

 

[Kulindahr]

I want to live there! Looks so awesome. I want to live in the popping-out areas, of course!

Me, too -- if they did it the way I described.

And if there were a swimming pool hung out in midair, about the fiftieth floor, made of transparent stuff so when you snuck in at night to go skinny-dipping it would feel like you were hanging stark naked in the air far above the ground.

 

[bw92116]

Looks like a giant game of Jenga gone horribly wrong.

 

[TheOscar]

Me, too -- if they did it the way I described.

And if there were a swimming pool hung out in midair, about the fiftieth floor, made of transparent stuff so when you snuck in at night to go skinny-dipping it would feel like you were hanging stark naked in the air far above the ground.

Perfect. XD Yes, now I gotta try that, haha.

 

[pat grimshaw]

I don't understand why it's hip to building something which will last for 25 years but looks like a mistake or a pointless joke.

 

[braex27]

The design is very clever but a bit too close to 9/11 for comfort.

 

[bankside]

Architecture is by its nature pretentious and I love it. None of us wants to live in a place that can't afford to be pretentious from time to time.

 

[jaysizzles]

When I first saw the picture on yahoo, looking from the ground up, it did immediately remind me of 9/11's twin towers. When looking at shots of it straight on...the resemblance is less. Still though...majority of people will view the building from street level and those that it reminds them of the twin towers will always see it. That is unfortunate. The thing about that historic event is that it did effect the world and the images were shared globally...not only Americans were effected...I'm sure not only Americans see the resemblance.

Reading that the designers intent was to have it look like these towers were in the clouds...I can see that. Knowing their concept has lessened my initial reaction. I highly doubt the designers saw the resemblance in the design process either. It's gimmiky...but a lot of architecture is. I don't find these buildings particularly attractive, but like art, architecture is subjective.

 

[frankfrank]

I briefly thought of that, but the floors are wrong, and I doubt Corny would make light of something like that.

No, they didn't intend it.

Corny making light of it? I didn't see anything that indicated he was posting in any kind of joking or disparaging way, other than disagreeing about the resemblance.

I have to disagree with Corny, though. Of course this is extremely unscientific, but about one-half of the people posting in this thread "saw something" resembling NineOneOne in the rendition of the proposed structures. This is a HUGE project, and by the time it reached the stage where the drawings became public, it's very likely that HUNDREDS of people were familiar with the drawings. I find it impossible to believe that there wouldn't have been a mention of the WTC resemblance by at least somebody.

^
The dimensions and the placing of the two towers are EXACTLY the same as those New York towers! Those Dutchies are playing a joke us on all.

Very true, everything (except the "staggering" of the floors where the actual explosions took place) are in almost exact scale to the Manhattan "original." Next, somebody's going to tell me there are 110 storeys in the proposed structures...I didn't try to count.

No offense, Corny, but 9/11 was my first thought without knowing about any controversy.

For what it's worth, I'm one of the few here (apparently) who like the design. I don't get the hate.

Yes, I also saw it immediately, within less than one second. (I didn't first see the report here on JUB, but on a news site, with the resemblance much more obvious in that picture I saw initially a couple days ago = the second picture in this thread.)

However I must quickly add - being quite a fan of abstract art and such - that I find the design to be elegant and beautiful.

The size and shape of the buildings and the height of the interesting design..... they could have easily made the building fatter, the connecting portion in a different area of the building...

i do not know how you would have such a solid connection between two buildings that are apt to sway differently in the wind. I would imagine that has been the limiting factor and would be a huge consideration.

Or, for that matter, there could have been only ONE tower, or more than two towers, or one fatter than the other, or one taller than the other, etc. With all those variables, let alone the similar shapes, dimensions, and spacing, I think it's too much to be a mere coincidence.

I didn't think at all about your observation about stress between the two buildings, because of different sway characteristics and such, but I think that's a VALID point. I would think there would need to be springs somewhere within the connecting structure that would isolate the differences. It's even possible that the architects and engineers didn't consider this, either. Stranger things have been overlooked before.

 

[zoltanspawn]

I see no reason for architecture to serve only our shallowest urges for prestige and status. I'm much more interested in buildings that cleverly deal with energy, landscape and traffic...even values like humility and thrift. Happily, architecture isn't solely the fashionable symbols found in glossy magazines.

Mid pleasures and palaces though we may roam...

 

[bankside]

I see no reason for architecture to serve only our shallowest urges for prestige and status. I'm much more interested in buildings that cleverly deal with energy, landscape and traffic...even values like humility and thrift. Happily, architecture isn't solely the fashionable symbols found in glossy magazines.

Mid pleasures and palaces though we may roam...

I don't think architecture should serve those urges at all, never mind "only." I think architecture should, at its best, embrace innovation, clever use of the principles of physics, and æsthetic artistry. But to hell with thrift. I believe in prosperity for all, not subsistence for all, and from politics to business to art to architecture, I like to see that noble value expressed.

 

[JayHawk]

I see no reason for architecture to serve only our shallowest urges for prestige and status. I'm much more interested in buildings that cleverly deal with energy, landscape and traffic...even values like humility and thrift. Happily, architecture isn't solely the fashionable symbols found in glossy magazines.

Mid pleasures and palaces though we may roam...

I agree. Right now along our coastlines they need to be building designs that will survive the first ten floors being under water................

 

[zoltanspawn]

I don't think architecture should serve those urges at all, never mind "only." I think architecture should, at its best, embrace innovation, clever use of the principles of physics, and æsthetic artistry. But to hell with thrift. I believe in prosperity for all, not subsistence for all, and from politics to business to art to architecture, I like to see that noble value expressed.

Two things, then.

I've misunderstood what you admire about pretentiousness, having interpreted it as the shallow urge for status. What is the essential pretentiousness of architecture that is not about prestige?

More importantly though, you dislike thrift. Given seven billion interests in limited resources, isn't thift merely the most practical value? I too would believe in prosperity for all, if the the "all" in question was an order of only hundreds of millions. Sure. But that's a bit of a dream. Are you sure you don't mean prosperity for some and subsistence for others?? Or--can you chart a program which would insure the prosperity of 7 billion, 9 billion...15 billion...23 billion?

 

[bankside]

Two things, then.

I've misunderstood what you admire about pretentiousness, having interpreted it as the shallow urge for status. What is the essential pretentiousness of architecture that is not about prestige?

More importantly though, you dislike thrift. Given seven billion interests in limited resources, isn't thift merely the most practical value? I too would believe in prosperity for all, if the the "all" in question was an order of only hundreds of millions. Sure. But that's a bit of a dream. Are you sure you don't mean prosperity for some and subsistence for others?? Or--can you chart a program which would insure the prosperity of 7 billion, 9 billion...15 billion...23 billion?

I believe in prosperity for all, on the order of hundreds of millions, and I believe that is what we will achieve, either humanely, or not. Naturally I support the humane approach. If people are determined to breed to the point of 23 billion unsustainable mouths to feed, I wish them all the misery they deserve, and I will do my best to confine it to them, while the rest of us make the best of enjoying what we can. Including beautiful buildings. Being human has to be more than having a mouth to efficiently feed, to live a life of scarcity, to beget another similarly desperate generation, and so on.

Basically I reject the idea that we are here to go forth and multiply. It is not the highest value, nor anywhere near it.

 

[zoltanspawn]

If people are determined to breed to the point of 23 billion unsustainable mouths to feed, I wish them all the misery they deserve, and I will do my best to confine it to them, while the rest of us make the best of enjoying what we can.

Practically, you will not be able to "confine it to them." You are unfortunately here on this little globe with the rest of us. In it together, with levees unable to sustain the flood of people.

Ethically, your enjoyment at their expense (or, our?) would be corrupt. Are we like animals that would steal from another's mouth? I believe it's wrong to wish misery on others, even the ignorant masses who breed unsustainably.

Thrift is the economy that might sustain us in the current crisis. Population reduction would bring us to a point where we could enjoy prosperity for all. Until there are less of us, I think you are merely endorsing privelege and despair.

 

[jaysizzles]

Bloomberg Businessweek: skyscraper design resembling wtc explosions may be changed

Dec. 13 (Bloomberg) -- The design of twin skyscrapers planned for Seoul may be modified in the wake of criticism that a cloud-shaped bridge joining the buildings resembles the explosions that felled the World Trade Center towers.

The building designs “have been widely published in Asia and Europe without anyone noticing a resemblance,” Jan Knikker, a spokesman for the Rotterdam-based firm, said in an e-mail today. “Once the plan was published in the U.S., the controversy started.”

“There is nothing finalized about the design,” Seo Hee Seok, a spokesman at Yongsan Development Co., developer of the project

“It may be difficult for the developer to go on with the current design after getting negative attention in the mass media,” Lee Sang Yun, a professor at Yonsei University’s department of architectural engineering in Seoul, said by phone.

“MVRDV regrets deeply any connotations The Cloud project evokes regarding 9/11,” the firm said in a statement posted on its website.

I highly doubt they made the connection during the design process that so many people have made, myself included, and I don't think an apology was really necessary. This seems to be just an unfortunate coincidence. I appreciate that they are taking the comments and criticisms under consideration. This design needs refinement anyways, imo...so hopefully back to the "drawing board" (an almost archaic expression in this day and age .)