What do you think about the pope's new issue?

[zombiekiller]

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldn...ortion-contraception-20130919,0,2183109.story

Basically speaking, the pope is faulting the church for focusing so much on homosexuality and abortion.

Homosexuality isn't even mentioned in the new testament, and yet the church has treated it like it's part of the 10 commandments (even though it's not).

From the pope's own mouth

"A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality,” he told La Civilta Cattolica. “I replied with another question: 'Tell me, when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?'

I actually take issue with his answer. This is pretty much the love-the-person-hate-the-sin bullshit that we've been hearing from bigots.

Try to think of it this way. They go out by the masses to vote against our rights. They tell us they love us, but they deny us basic rights in society. Is that really love or just bullshit?

I'm seriously thinking about marrying my boyfriend/partner. I can't really see myself leaving him anytime soon or ever. But for now as it stands, our union will not be recognized and something as simple as visitation rights will be like jumping through 20 hoops. How on this green earth is that them showing they love us?

I do give it to the pope for the following words.

"We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible," he said. "The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear, and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time."

He's right. Homosexuality isn't even on the 10 commandments and it doesn't even show up in the new testament. The only parts of the bible it showed up was in the old testament right next to putting your neighbor to death for eating shellfish. And yet for decades the church has treated it like murder.

 

[eastofeden]

Bottom line...organized religion exists to control the masses...and I am not so sure it is really a bad idea sometimes....

Fear is a wonderful tool and homosexuality is a wonderful scapegoat...

Shame and guilt are two other fabulous and effective tools used to control people and the Catholic Church wrote the book on it....

...but alas...I am a Pagan...and what the church says about anything has no value for me....

 

[zombiekiller]

Bottom line...organized religion exists to control the masses...and I am not so sure it is really a bad idea sometimes....

Fear is a wonderful tool and homosexuality is a wonderful scapegoat...

...but alas...I am a Pagan...and what the church says about anything has no value for me....

Well, it should have some value to you simply because they have direct influence over the quality of your life. They have a lot of sheeps to control.

 

[eastofeden]

Well, it should have some value to you simply because they have direct influence over the quality of your life. They have a lot of sheeps to control.

Yeah...but it doesn't. That is why being gay is a complete non issue for me.....

 

[palbert]

I thought he had just given birth ....

 

[G-Lexington]

What do you think about the pope's new issue?

No idea - I don't subscribe.

I think the pope is doing the right thing, and doing it the right way. He may be the pontiff, but I doubt he can reverse several centuries of ingrained homophobia in the Church simply by announcing "Gays are now OK". That would simply lead to huge arguments throughout the faith, and possibly with his removal (at which point he'd be replaced with a more "traditional" pontiff). I think this pope can in fact be the effect of some hefty change within the Church. But he can't jump to the finish line. He has to lead the church there. And his comments make sense within that context. He is asking people Catholics to reflect specifically on how Jesus and God would treat homosexuals, and suggesting that they focus on other, more pressing concerns. I think that's the best first step.

Lex

 

[bort138]

I don't think the Catholic Church will be changing its' policies on abortion and homosexuality any time soon. Having a new PR person isn't going to change things overnight.

 

[star-warrior]

He might be at the top of the steaming pile of excrement, but it's his army of cockroaches who are doing the daily work of keeping people feeling guilty about the shit they're wallowing in.

 

[Pcp3t3]

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldn...ortion-contraception-20130919,0,2183109.story

Basically speaking, the pope is faulting the church for focusing so much on homosexuality and abortion.

Homosexuality isn't even mentioned in the new testament, and yet the church has treated it like it's part of the 10 commandments (even though it's not).

From the pope's own mouth



I actually take issue with his answer. This is pretty much the love-the-person-hate-the-sin bullshit that we've been hearing from bigots.

Try to think of it this way. They go out by the masses to vote against our rights. They tell us they love us, but they deny us basic rights in society. Is that really love or just bullshit?

I'm seriously thinking about marrying my boyfriend/partner. I can't really see myself leaving him anytime soon or ever. But for now as it stands, our union will not be recognized and something as simple as visitation rights will be like jumping through 20 hoops. How on this green earth is that them showing they love us?

I do give it to the pope for the following words.



He's right. Homosexuality isn't even on the 10 commandments and it doesn't even show up in the new testament. The only parts of the bible it showed up was in the old testament right next to putting your neighbor to death for eating shellfish. And yet for decades the church has treated it like murder.

I don't think he hates gays.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Sounds like a good dude.

 

[zombiekiller]

I don't think he hates gays.

Again, it doesn't matter if he hates gays or not. What matters is what happens to gays under his policies.

Try to think of it this way. I used to have a friend that was against all forms of gay unions and benefits. She was so much against it that she even went out of her way to campaign against not just gay marriage but any kind of domestic partnership benefits like health care and visitation rights. You think she hates gays, right? Nope. She was probably the most gay friendly person I knew at the time. She even went to gay bars on a regular basis. She was as pro-gay as anyone could be. She was just extremely anti-gay rights.

So, the question really isn't does she hate gay people. I personally don't believe for a moment that she hated me. Yet, at the same time, her actions harm me directly.

You can love someone and harm them directly, you know.

And this is the attitude that a lot of homophobes try to take because it is more politically correct. Rather than say "we hate fags", they say "we love fags, but we hate the faggory ways".

Going back to the pope, no, I don't think the pope hates us. At the same time, he can actually do more damage to our lives being that way than if he just came out and say "I hate fags".

A fake ally can do a lot more damage than a full blown enemy. With the enemy, at least you know to keep a watch on them. But the fake ally can stab you in the back any time.

Just sayin'. I'm not so sure it's a good idea for us to celebrate now. Yes, the pope could be taking the first step toward leading the charge to the 21st century. Or he could be using a new strategy. Let me explain.

I have a gay friend. About 2 years ago, he joined this church which was all welcoming. He kept telling me how great the people of the church was and how welcoming they made him feel. So, he brought me to one of the services. A red flag in me was raised when I heard "god loves you, but..." and the pastor went on to talking about sins. You know, the typical god loves you but hate your sins.

Sure enough, about a month after that, my friend started telling people he was no longer gay. When people asked him why, he said he found jesus. Trust me, knowing this guy, he would have to take Viagra to get an erection from a woman.

Nowadays, he doesn't date, at all. Why? Because homosexuality is a sin and women actually are repulsive to him. So, he doesn't date at all. And he still tells people he found jesus and jesus tells him to stop sinning (meaning stop being a homo).

What's the moral of the story? The Christians that are pretending to be accepting and friendly can actually do more harm to us than the Christians that are holding the "god hates fags" signs.

Where will the pope lead the church from here? I don't know. All I'm saying is this could be a new strategy toward the so-called gay problem.

 

[eastofeden]

^^^ I dread the day the Catholic Church embraces us^^^

 

[zombiekiller]

^^^ I dread the day the Catholic Church embraces us^^^

Don't get me wrong. If one day the catholic church embraces us (for real), I think that would be awesome.

But we should approach it with caution.

Again, going back to the example with my friend. That church would not have been able to turn him straight or at least make him stop dating men had they been all "we hate fags". This particular church knew to reel them in with messages of love and acceptance and then once the trust is there turn them.

Even my own sister I can't trust. She's a devout catholic. Also the first person in the family I came out to. She was vocal about believing I was just going through a phase for about 2 years. Then she stopped saying it and started claiming she was all accepting. Well, lately, she's been putting in sentences in our convos like "there's still hope for you" and "I really like that Melissa girl, you still see her?" One time, I let it slip that I used to date girls, she said "oh, good!"

The church is many things. But they have made it abundantly clear that they are not our ally. If they want to earn my trust, it will take more than just messages of acceptance.

 

[Rickrock]

What do I think of the Pope's latest comments? I think that it is a breath of fresh air. He isn't changing any of the rules, but he is changing the emphasis on them. It will be interesting to see how this plays out over time. We will have to wait and see. The Catholic Church has been losing Americans and young Americans for a generation, partially because of divorce and birth control. He can't be any worse than the recent past and is probably much better.

 

[pat grimshaw]

...organized religion exists to control the masses.....

Yes. It is just like Political Correctness. It is just rules handed down by the elite so the masses don't have to think for themselves.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

human race robots wot noisy

thankyou

 

[Alnitak]

The pope doesn't have the power to change the Church's attitude on homosexuality even if he wanted to. He's already done and said too many radical things (good things) without any gravitas or political capital to spend. I really doubt the bishops take this pope seriously. They will continue the gay bashing as usual.

Francis can continue on this path, and I hope that he does. With all his humility he is practically unassailable, and therefore the bishops won't criticize him openly to a large extent.

 

[freefall]

I think the pope has been very controversial lately. He claimed to have no problem with homosexuality (as long as the gay person is a devoted Christian though - a bit minus point), openly gay priests, abortion, and atheism (this one, he said that atheists can still go to heaven if they're devoted to their beliefs - a bit weird). Quite a positive thing, though, if you ask me.

The minus point is however he persists the idea of not having women as cardinals or high priestesses, claiming that 'it has been like that for centuries and will be for the next centuries', although he added that women play important roles in the church and can take various roles besides the ones mentioned. Still sexist to a degree, I see.

 

[medic1]

The pope doesn't have the power to change the Church's attitude on homosexuality even if he wanted to. He's already done and said too many radical things (good things) without any gravitas or political capital to spend. I really doubt the bishops take this pope seriously. They will continue the gay bashing as usual.

Francis can continue on this path, and I hope that he does. With all his humility he is practically unassailable, and therefore the bishops won't criticize him openly to a large extent.

Just like in a huge international conglomerate , where the CEO appoints heads of depts . Francis is the one to elevate priests to the Red-Robes .
He is a far from stupid man , and if anyone thinks he is , remember the order he was ordained into . If he can gradually steer the choice of younger more "radical" Bishops in positions of real power . Then perhaps he may yet surprise you .

 

[pat grimshaw]

All you Catholics better KEEP on PRAYING!

Or you better start finding some good excuses for when your god takes you on your Day of Judgement.