What does it mean to be "out"?

[thiskidd24]

What does the phrase "coming out" mean to you? Is there a certain number of people, are there certain people, is there a certain length of time, certain domains (home, work, school) or other criteria for you to consider someone to be "out".

I thought I had a clear cut idea when I was younger, but its not as simple as I thought. I am out to some people that I wanted to be out to, there are some people I wish i wasnt out to, there are some people I wish I was out to that I dont know if I ever will be, etc. I am out to some family, i am out to some friends, I am out to some classmates.

It seems like there are some people who are out to just about everyone they interact with. How does this work and how do you approach the situation? I have to approach each person differently and some people i probably would never come out to. not necessarily because i think that person wouldnt approve or accept it, but because i dont think it is relevant for certain people to know. i dont think it is necessary for every person to know about my sexuality. its not like straight people are like oh im hetero. its because being gay isnt the "norm/default" so there seems to be a need to come out. even if i was straight, im not the type of person who would be like "im going out with this girl" etc etc etc. to everyone. sometimes i get the feeling from other gays that i am not as gay or still not out just because i am not out to as many people as they may be or taking me being uncomfortable with coming out to certain people as being uncomfortable with my sexuality.

i dont know, maybe i have to blame this one on society. i wonder how this is dealt with internationally. im not really looking for advice, but rather discussion & other perspectives. i do have other questions, but i need some time to think of how i want to word them.

 

[halubtsi]

It's actually pretty simple, though it's hard to actually "get there." You're "out" when you don't feel like you're hiding yourself anymore. You're "out" when you're proud of who you are and comfortable in your own skin.

There are people who don't know I'm gay. It's not because I'm withholding the info, but like you said, it's irrelevant for them to know. I just don't hide it.

There's no magic number threshold that you have to pass in order to consider yourself "out." It's when you feel that being gay is just another "fact" of life, like the colour of your hair or eyes.

 

[Lalada]

It's usually society's fault anyways, so don't worry....

I am not fully out, but I am with my family, and a few close friends. My work does stay separate, but I would make no hissy fit over the fact I'm gay if I were cornered. Plus I can hold my own in an argument hands down, so that helps.

Some spheres it really isn't relevant, but often it's made into such a huge deal that it's supposed to be known everywhere, and unscrupulous managers and bosses can throw their own hissy fits over it, however few and far between.

I always felt inferior to the other gay guy of the group though. Skinny... blonde... real twink type, who attracts guys like him. All I seem to attract is the forty-something hulking Coca Cola truck driver with a moustache that would put the Village People to shame. He is out no matter where he goes, this guy, me on the other hand, aren't as loud or as noticable, but does that make me any less gay?

Hell no. I am who I am no matter where I am and my sexuality makes only a small part of that.

My poor self-image is what detracts me most of making myself LOUD but I'm not that kinda person anyways.

To me, to be "out" is to simply be comfortable with who you are, and not shying away from the fact you KNOW who you are. Where you bring it up, or where others do, that's their business, and we can say the same too.

 

[Orlandude]

I think Lalada and Halubtsi pretty much said it the way it is. You only need to be comfortable and accepting and proud of yourself. "Coming out" does not mean you have to run around yelling "I'm gay! I'm gay" to everybody and anybody. There are no requirements. I told the people that I felt should know. (family, friends, etc...) That gave me peace inside. I don't make my being gay relevant to everyone because it's not. But I don't hide it. I've told some people that don't accept it but that's not my problem. It is what it is. I also found out who my REAL friends are. As far as others, if they ask, I don't lie anymore or "cushion" it.

 

[thiskidd24]

halubtsi
nicely worded... it should be about being comfortable about yourself. but then when people say that they are "coming out" it usually refers to telling someone about their sexuality, they might not necessarily be comfortable with themselves. it could be more like a process of discovering oneself and the becoming comfortable through that maybe?


lalada
i agree, def in the workplace i think outing your sexuality is irrelevant in many cases. but i can understand in some tightknit workplaces. i really dont think i could see myself coming out in the workplace, it seems like those people are taking a big chance of putting a target on themselves in many ways. but since i have always been a student i cant really say, plus in sure it depend on what field you work in.

orlandude
so then do you think someone could be out without having to tell anyone else about their sexuality? since its just about being comfortable with yourself, doesnt mean you will tell anyone, what if someone was comfortable with themselves but didnt tell anyone because everyone around them is not accepting (i know this prob isnt likely but hypothetically speaking). do you think someone could be out and then closeted again?

 

[tallguy297]

Hey TK24,

Mate, to be honest in every sense of the word I would consider you out.

Coming out is a very personal and very intimate thing... for each of us its different and for each of us its intensely individual. Some guys are happy with telling just friends, some just family, some both, some the whole world.

Personally I dont think its a process that you ever close the book on. People come and go from our lives and so there will always be a chance that you might feel to need to be open with new people that you care deeply for and consider to be great friends.

Coming out is fluid... but the most important and critical thing is that you control it, you drive it and you draw the line where you want it drawn. If thats 2 people fine. If its 20 great. If its the whole world thats fine too.

The only thing that matters TK24, is that you are you. That you are true to yourself, and you make yourself feel safe and comfortable with who you are. For some that takes the acceptance of others, for some not so much. Find that place that lets you be you... and then get on with your life... be happy and enjoy it. Its meant to be a fun ride, not one spent worrying and fearful. You deserve way more than that!

 

[gaytxn09]

Hm. In response to thiskidd24's response to orlandude, yes, I think someone could be out and then closeted again. Or at least something similar. I'm quite out at university. It's hard to hide. I'm not flamboyant, but it's just obvious if you know me. I recently spent a semester abroad in Europe. Also very out there. Problem is, during my non-exciting holidays, I spend the time at my parents' in Texas. I wouldn't really say that it's overly homophobic where I live, but it's not overly homo-friendly either. That said though, my de facto policy is really scarily similar to "don't ask, don't tell." It is what it is. I wouldn't win points by being out and proud, but that's not really who I am. I don't broadcast my sexuality. In fact, that's a really big turnoff for me. People who are people are those I find more attractive. I don't know if that answers your question, but that's kinda how I feel back here in Texas at the moment. Back in the closet more or less....

 

[thiskidd24]

gaytxn09
what i meant more so is someone who is out in every sense of the term and then say that person just starts to deny it or never tells anyone again.

but you bring up another point. just like people who dont feel the need to come out at the workplace, you choose to not come out at home because people are not accepting or whatever other reasons. we act differently in different domains/aspects of our lives. i think its natural, just like our personalities. i know in other cases, say if someone acts all tough in front of certain people, just say theyre thugs, and then act more emotional in front of others. i know some people would say this person is fake. or take a gay guy that lives a "double life". im sure that person would be labeled fake too. but different settings call for different demeanors so it makes sense people will alter how they act somewhat. plus people have multifaceted personalities, we act differently in different settings. i dont like when people use the term fake in these cases. i guess you could also say this is a defense mechanism in a way. it might not be economically, emotionally, physically, etc. beneficial to be out in certain cases.

 

[treanir]

^ Exactly.

To me, being out means not lying about your sexuality. It doesn't mean draping myself in a rainbow flag or bringing it up in the first two seconds of conversation ("hi, I'm Eric, and I'm gay"). It means that I don't pretend I'm straight when the topic comes up. However, there have been situations in the past where I didn't want to reveal that part of me. These were people that were not going to be in my life for a long time and were not going to be my friends. Colleagues mostly.

Coming out is all about you feeling comfortable enough with yourself to let others know, if you wish.

 

[G-Lexington]

As others have indicated...

Being out means not living the lie. Not playing pronoun games around people ("I'm currently seeing somebody..."). Not attempting to act differently than you normally do in an effort to "keep people from guessing". In essence, it's simply not caring who knows anymore. That doesn't have involve rainbow short-shorts and a routine to a Britney Spears song (unless you want it to).

Lex

 

[Muskox]

....
Personally I don't think its a process that you ever close the book on. People come and go from our lives and so there will always be a chance that you might feel to need to be open with new people that you care deeply for and consider to be great friends.

"Coming out" is a lifelong process. Unlike being Chinese or tall or gap-toothed, it's not immediately obvious when you meet someone new or find yourself in a new group. Some people may have an inkling, but you aren't really out to them until you make an unambiguous statement about your partner or the Pride Parade or some such thing. It's too bad we don't have some universal sign or pin to announce to the world that you're gay. It would save a lot of hassle.

Somebody once noted that it's easier to be black than gay, 'cause when you're black you don't have to tell your parents.

 

[sunoftheskye]

To put it simply, I consider being "out" meaning if someone asks you if you're gay, you say yes.

 

[halubtsi]

Thiskid, Coming out definitely is a process. It's not a one time event. And you're always continually "coming out." However, when you yourself can say "I'm out" means that you've reached that comfort level that it doesn't matter if other people know. You're not ashamed of yourself.

A while ago, someone mentioned that coming out was composed of 2 parts. One was internal and the other external. The internal coming out is the most important because it enables you to come out externally, on your own terms (and when you're ready).

 

[thiskidd24]

muskox
hmm i understand what you are saying, but i would not agree with whoever said it would be easier to be black than gay. yes it is a difficult and lifelong process of coming out, but being gay at least you can choose who you can come out to. i dont think someone would be able to easily come out to a random person that you know is a gay basher. you know how long blacks and other minorities have been oppressed. i dont think that one is not easier than the other... they are just different.

halubtsi
i like the 2 part internal/external coming out concept. most people typically refer to coming out as the external part. and i dont think internally coming out is necessarily a prerequisite for the external coming out because we know many people on here who are damn uncomfortable with themselves, but they might be externally out to a few people or just need someone to talk to who wont judge them.


...this is kind of my point. yeah i think that accepting your own sexuality and being comfortable with yourself is an important part of being out, but i dont think that this is necessary to tell others which is more of the action of coming out. if i just told someone that i was gay that person will probably be thinking "oh they just came out to me". so its not strictly just about being comfortable with yourself...

 

[Echoes]

being out is being happy, proud and comfortable with yourself, no more hiding, no matter what everybody thinks about you, you're just ok with that. Being out doesn't mean to make public that you're gay every place you go, I think the best word could be self confident with it, you don't care whether some people realise it or not. the ones who may know are chosen by you of course and I believe is important that your family know it whether you feel close to them or not, after all they are family aren't they? close friends should know as well and that's it, it is completely up to you man but at the end it is a matter of feelings if you feel that you're not lying to yourself anymore then you're out

 

[Lube]

It's actually pretty simple, though it's hard to actually "get there." You're "out" when you don't feel like you're hiding yourself anymore. You're "out" when you're proud of who you are and comfortable in your own skin.

There are people who don't know I'm gay. It's not because I'm withholding the info, but like you said, it's irrelevant for them to know. I just don't hide it.

There's no magic number threshold that you have to pass in order to consider yourself "out." It's when you feel that being gay is just another "fact" of life, like the colour of your hair or eyes.

Thiskid, Coming out definitely is a process. It's not a one time event. And you're always continually "coming out." However, when you yourself can say "I'm out" means that you've reached that comfort level that it doesn't matter if other people know. You're not ashamed of yourself.

A while ago, someone mentioned that coming out was composed of 2 parts. One was internal and the other external. The internal coming out is the most important because it enables you to come out externally, on your own terms (and when you're ready).

Halubtsi really nailed it both times.

And yes you have to come out to yourself before you can come out to others. You have to admit to yourself (a) that you're GLBT, and (b) that it's OK to be that way.

Keep in mind that being out doesn't mean meeting people and saying, "Hi, I'm Joe and I'm gay." I've only said "I'm gay" to 5 people in my life: my mother and siblings, because I told them long-distance (I came out later in life).

For my friends & coworkers, I just talk about what I did with "my boyfriend" or "the guy I'm dating". Again, it's not pushing it in people's faces; rather, it's putting into a relevant conversation.

For example, many guys are delusional when they say they don't need to come out at work, that "no one at work needs to know". IMHO, that's totally delusional. Not because people at work need to know what you do in bed. No. It's because in order to succeed at work, you basically need to be able to have smalltalk with your fellow coworkers and bosses. If everyone is standing around chatting at the beginning of the day and tells you what they did over the weekend, and you just sit there with your mouth zipped--you look weird. Very weird. Like you don't have a social life, or relatives, or friends. Or you dissect small animals for fun. Or you're a pedophile or something. Or that you're ashamed of being who you are (gay).

An 'out' person would never just sit there in a social situation like a bump on a log, afraid to divulge what he did over the weekend. An 'out' person would just nonchalantly say they saw the latest movie with this guy they're seeing. And just continue on the conversation. No drama. No "I'm gay!". Nothing like that. They will figure it out quickly enough.

 

[thiskidd24]

Lube


hmm i dont completely disagree with you, but i dont completely agree with you either. like i said earlier, i really think i depends on the field the person works in. do you think gays would have no problems coming out in typically more conservative careers such as politicians. well im not saying they dont, and there are probably more than i imagine, but do you think they could succeed as a straight man would. then why hasnt there been a gay president? what about gays working in schools? of course someone probably not going to come out to their students, but even when they come out to their colleagues they can receive a lot of criticism. idk maybe i think this because i havent heard many positive stories. i dont think you can say there arent cases where it is more beneficial to not come out at the workplace. also if a gay person doesnt come out at work, its not like they cant socialize with coworkers any less competently. well unless they are the attached type that does everything with their partner. overall i think it really just depends on the field one works in.

 

[Lube]

Yeah, sure, it does depend somewhat on your field. Apparently it's still a no-no for pro athletes, for example. (Not until they retire, anyway.)

Just as there are pockets of places where you might not say you're Jewish or Catholic or atheist, sure, there are places and fields where you wouldn't necessarily come out.

But, those are become rarer and rarer. There are news items all the time of Hollywood actors (slowly!) coming out, or mayors or legislators who get elected when out. Hell, I don't watch much TV but just the other day I say a Comedy Central roast of the guy who did America's Funniest Home Videos. Every other joke was about being gay or Jewish. It's soooo not a big deal today.

There is always some risk.

But I think the tide is changing very quickly, especially with California legalizing gay marriage.

I guess it depends if you generally are on the leading edge or trailing edge of things. I'm generally on the leading edge. The reason it took me so long to come out was that I couldn't come out to myself. Once I did that, I came out to everyone. Fuck 'em.

 

[G-Lexington]

I'm sensing a bit of "you don't know me" here.

Yeah, there hasn't been a gay president. There also hasn't been a female president, or a non-white president, or a non-Christian president. (Yet.) This doesn't mean you have to be a white straight Christian male to succeed in every field out there. Sure, it may come in handy in a few select fields, but it's not a guarantee of succees there, either.

There are places where life will be made tough if you're out. Fortunately, they aren't that many, and they're decreasing all the time. Are you in one? Hard to say. If you've seen someone in your immediate area with a very similar job get hounded out of his job for being gay recently, then yeah - chances are good you're in one. But not every gay person in the education field stays in the closet. More and more gay athletes and actors and whatnot are coming out. I myself am in the public eye, and have always been out to both my co-workers and the public at large. And no, not in the "I'm the gay one" sort of way, but I don't shy away from talking about "my boyfriend" in public. Amount of grief I've gotten for it - zero. And I'm in a red state.

It may be that you're in a place where you correctly feel that being out will conflict with your current job in your current location. That does happen. Then you just have to make a choice. You can just stay in the closet, or you can work on getting a job somewhere where you CAN be out. I know which one I'd choose. Because, seriously, life on this side of the closet door kicks ass.

Lex

 

[thiskidd24]

Lube & Lex

Like I said earlier, I have been a student my whole life and I haven't had more than small part time jobs. So my opinion is mostly based on what I have seen & heard. Would you guys mind sharing a little about your experiences?