Op-Ed What does the current establishment Democrats stand for?

[Julian89]

^That's what you're telling us...right here.

Just to remind you that not one person holds a monopoly on the truth..however you choose to spin it...here.

Honest question. Please give me at least three instances that donations by Big Money did not made any influence on policies in a manner that benefits them at the expense of common Americans.

 

[Julian89]

Your manifesto for change is so popular that Trump and his self interest now occupies The White House.

Could it be that you are not in touch with the aspirations of the American common man, and woman?

Or, that you are misreading the aspirations of the common person?

Uh... just in case you forgot...

The Deplorable-in-Chief ran to the left of Hillary Clinton.

 

[Julian89]

Then Japan attacked the United States Navy at Pearl Harbor...Germany declared war on the United States..and all Americans discovered that working together in a common cause to defeat the Axis powers, brought the nation together...Democrats, and Republicans serving the common good.

For real? Anti-war in the sense that it is not justified where the target is not even a threat to the United States. I never thought that I have to break it down.

You are saying that the participation in the United States in World War II where the Axis is threatening the World is ok. I agree with that. How about that of the American military invasion of Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria that has never been a threat to the United States? The participation of the United States in WW2 is justified. How is that the case in the countries I mentioned?

 

[kallipolis]

Honest question. Please give me at least three instances that donations by Big Money did not made any influence on policies in a manner that benefits them at the expense of common Americans.

No one here has said that donations from any source has no influence on the political landscape.

I am not in a position to know whether the common persons suffers as a result of donations to political parties. Nor are you.

- - - Updated - - -

Uh... just in case you forgot...

The Deplorable-in-Chief ran to the left of Hillary Clinton.

Campaigning, and being in office are different, and differing realities....

 

[kallipolis]

For real? Anti-war in the sense that it is not justified where the target is not even a threat to the United States. I never thought that I have to break it down.

You are saying that the participation in the United States in World War II where the Axis is threatening the World is ok. I agree with that. How about that of the American military invasion of Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria that has never been a threat to the United States? The participation of the United States in WW2 is justified. How is that the case in the countries I mentioned?

I have given you one example where America unified in the face of a common enemy.

I have not proposed support for all wars undertaken by the United States.

 

[opinterph]

Well that's odd. I can see mine and I'm not a paid subscriber or anything. If you will allow, I can copy paste the entire background of the said report.

We only allow fair use quotes, but you can summarize the content or make comments about specific statements in the document. I note that it is somewhat difficult for other members to appreciate the original content, if they aren’t allowed to access it.

©2017, CQ Press, An Imprint of SAGE Publishing. All Rights Reserved. CQ Press is a registered trademark of Congressional Quarterly Inc.

 

[opinterph]

Are you implying that Union's money is as bad as that of Big Money from Wall Street and Big Corporations?

No. It is interesting because it illustrates how people will always try to find a way around the law. It is also interesting that the PAC concept appeared way back in the 1940s.

With regard to a comparison of how relatively “bad,” I note that some reports, which reveal the extent of Wall Street donations, also include “collective contributions of people” that happen to be employed in the financial sector. Are PAC donations from people who work in the banking sector more bad than donations from people who belong to unions?

Ok. So FDR really is against Wall Street and Big Corporate money is what you're saying?

Research reveals that FDR’s veto appears to be grounded mostly in his objection to Section 8 of the bill, which relates to labor strikes during wartime. President Roosevelt’s veto on June 25, 1943 includes the following statements:

Section nine of the bill prohibits for the period of the war political contributions by labor organizations. This provision obviously has no relevancy to a bill prohibiting strikes during the war in plants operated by the Government or to a "War Labor Disputes Act." If there be merit in the prohibition, it should not be confined to wartime, and careful consideration should be given to the appropriateness of extending the prohibition to other non-profit organizations.

Veto of the Smith-Connally Bill (The American Presidency Project)

 

[opinterph]

Some strategists argue that corporate donations are necessary to compete in the current political reality.

Provide the common people with politics that will genuinely cater and fight for their interests. Give them something worthy to believe in and money will follow.

Did you read the Politico article linked in my post quoted above?

 

[luckynumbah7]

Are PAC donations from people who work in the banking sector more bad than donations from people who belong to unions?

I believe so, simply for the amount that bankers tend to make - their donations would reflect that, I'd think. Since it would be unethical to cap the amounts an individual could donate based on profession or group affiliation then there really should be a cap on how much money a politician is allowed to use to run a campaign.

 

[opinterph]

… the clueless socialist nativists from the left wing of the Democratic party need to be told to get lost.

Searching around the Internet, I don’t find much evidence of nativism among the left wing of the Democratic Party. That’s something I usually associate more with the right wing of the Republican Party.

How extensive (and how consequential) do you perceive this nativism to be in the Democratic Party?

---

Is it Bernie?

Bernie Sanders' Protectionism & Nativist Economics is Neither New Nor Smart (reason.com; Nick Gillespie; September 2015)

What Bernie Sanders told Lou Dobbs in 2007 about why he opposed the Kennedy-McCain immigration bill (Vox; February 2016)

Splitting with Latinos and progressives in Congress like myself and Raul Grijalva, Sanders voted with Republicans who feared an influx of foreign workers.

I realize this may surprise some people to hear. It’s a fact that certainly doesn’t comport with his current campaign rhetoric.

But I served in Congress with Senator Sanders for years, and seemingly every time the Latino community had the most on the line, he stood across the aisle.

– Former Arizona congressman Ed Pastor [AzCentral; March 2016]

---

Fighting Back Against the Rising Tide of Nativist and Racist Reaction (Democratic Socialists of America; 2015)

 

[bankside]

Would it be different if the villains in this equation were identified as the LGBTQ community?

Struggling a bit with the question. Do you mean what if gays tried to enforce obligatory homosexuality, strip heterosexuals of legal protection, persecute them in the ensuing vacuum of human rights, and proclaim this was all done under the warm regard of divine supervision? No, that wouldn't be right either.

I think you might be getting at something else I'm missing in your question though.

 

[bankside]

Searching around the Internet, I don’t find much evidence of nativism among the left wing of the Democratic Party. That’s something I usually associate more with the right wing of the Republican Party.


How extensive (and how consequential) do you perceive this nativism to be in the Democratic Party?

Yes I think that's it. And yes I think it's a big problem.

Right wing nativism usually seems connected to simple racist superiority complexes.

On the left, it seems more to result from economic anxiety combined with ignorance of economics combined with having lost the knowledge that solidarity is often an important tool to effect change.

We need to get back to the mentality of solving the world's problems together. We need to be internationalist.

 

[opinterph]

@ bankside

Please describe how Senator Bernie Sanders played to his supporters.

 

[bankside]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...trump-and-sanders-get-wrong-about-free-trade/

Or as Sanders put it during a speech in Michigan in March, “Over the past 15 years, the state of Michigan has lost one-third of its manufacturing jobs. The most significant reason for this economic decline is our failed trade policies.”

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/06/bernies-case-against-trade-dumber-than-trumps.html

The argument for restricting this trade rests on protecting the interests of the working class in rich countries at the expense of the global poor who are taking their jobs. In an interview last summer, Ezra Klein pushed Sanders into more or less conceding that his trade plans would look out for American workers at the expense of poor workers overseas.

The second source quotes Sanders overtly distancing himself from nativist sentiments, but the economics of it suggests Sanders is just pulling a "these are not the droids you're looking for" thing.

 

[opinterph]

On the left, [nativism] seems more to result from economic anxiety combined with ignorance of economics combined with having lost the knowledge that solidarity is often an important tool to effect change.

You cannot lose what you never had.

The Pragmatic Tradition of African-American Voters (New York; April 2016)

How Bernie Sanders Exposed the Democrats’ Racial Rift (Politico; June 2016)​

 

[TickTockMan]

You cannot lose what you never had.

How Bernie Sanders Exposed the Democrats’ Racial Rift (Politico; June 2016)[/INDENT]

That article is biased and every stat used seem to have come from a Hillary leaning supporter. Bernie had many people of color, women, LGBT's, etc. Bernie was filling venues of close to 30,000 people. There were many minorities.

 

[Sausy]

Who is the real New Deal Democrat? A one time Barry Goldwater supporter who morphed into the epitome of establishment, corporate triangulating Democrats.. or the Socialist who has loyally caucused with Democrats and who has had a consistent message of making America work again for poor, minorities, working class, middle class. Clue: Not her.

In the end, I am more pessimistic than ever. I don't believe Trump will last much longer..he is imploding, and hopefully the damage he does before being forced to resign or be impeached.. because it WILL come to that.. isn't catastrophic. Whoever replaces him... Pence or someone else by 2020 will still favor strongly conservative policies that will gut the heart of America but not the most obvious vestiges of racism and white nationalism. Dems will continue to push their more malleable corporate friendly people, and people here and out in the country blind to the deep flaws of our compromised (and all-too compromising) establishment will eagerly back them up and spit at those reformers who know that there is a real deep pain in this country for a lot of people that haven't benefitted from the wonders of the global economy... Democrats need moral clarity and credibility and not slogans and focus groups but to get god damned real.

The genie of white nationalism will get set back but they now have a taste of power, a voice in the GOP... there will be a struggle over the next few years for the nation's heart and soul and I really don't know if we will get through this. I truly hope so but have my doubts... we need unity but we also need a commitment to live to the best ideals of what America can be. We need a little less ambition and love of power, a little less ego and a lot more genuine concern to get things done to help make America really a land of opportunity for all.

To those who don't want to listen or reflect, I don't give a flying fuck. I don't want the Russians to get a pass... I know they are awful, and Putin is no potential friend to work with or get soft on. We have to know what they did, and try to make sure it never happens again. But we also have to acknowledge our government has played these kind of games(not to the institutional level but in terms of favoring governments that met our interests and sometimes removing governments that didn't). To act otherwise, with unreflective moral superiority, would be a hypocritical disgrace.

There has to be an intellectual consistency and honesty we don't have really. All we have is finger pointing and accusations .. casting aspersions on the motives of Bernie or his supporters. Some have gone with the far right, and supported Trump... a small number but a distressing thing nonetheless. Bernie isn't God, he's not our Savior but he isn't the devil either by any means and what he supports and represents is where we should be as a starting point of reference... trying to do the best for Americans who work hard or want opportunities but see how much the deck is stacked against them. Sometimes even by those Democrats who say they stand with ordinary Americans.

Sorry for the rambling, but I'm done with self serving , self described progressives standing in judgement over others.

But I also strongly advise those non-establishment supporting Democrats to fight within the party, to not minimize future outsiders like Trump who unlike him may have greater political gifts and be far more dangerous... we cannot afford to give continued power to the GOP. We have to keep working to move the party from comfortable establishment power to serving the interests of the people who elected them to represent ordinary Americans from all walks of life... we are seen as the enemy by some but we want Democrats to be Democrats again and stand for something better than just improving things on the margins. We have on average 2% growth a year, and where it was a given we would expect succeeding generations to do better and have more opportunities to hey, next generation... you're on your own! We need to appeal to American optimism and vision, to be creative.... not anti business but against having a scenario where the big winners have a huge table to themselves where party leaders hang but the rest of us have to share a small table of leftovers and limited opportunities. We need a truly forward thinking, inspirational leadership and yes wherever possible we have to spark that creativity and leadership ourselves and not wait for Washington, DC's attention or approval.

I just want to see America attain amazing possibilities in a time where so much is bringing us down. I am not a troll, maybe a dreamer but I'm damned proud to be one. I apologize for nothing except I wish I had the intellect and talents to go out there myself and be a real part of that change. But if I can't, I damn well will strongly encourage those who dare dream of big possibilities to go and help bring it about.

 

[TickTockMan]

Who is the real New Deal Democrat? A one time Barry Goldwater supporter who morphed into the epitome of establishment, corporate triangulating Democrats.. or the Socialist who has loyally caucused with Democrats and who has had a consistent message of making America work again for poor, minorities, working class, middle class. Clue: Not her.

In the end, I am more pessimistic than ever. I don't believe Trump will last much longer..he is imploding, and hopefully the damage he does before being forced to resign or be impeached.. because it WILL come to that.. isn't catastrophic. Whoever replaces him... Pence or someone else by 2020 will still favor strongly conservative policies that will gut the heart of America but not the most obvious vestiges of racism and white nationalism. Dems will continue to push their more malleable corporate friendly people, and people here and out in the country blind to the deep flaws of our compromised (and all-too compromising) establishment will eagerly back them up and spit at those reformers who know that there is a real deep pain in this country for a lot of people that haven't benefitted from the wonders of the global economy... Democrats need moral clarity and credibility and not slogans and focus groups but to get god damned real.

The genie of white nationalism will get set back but they now have a taste of power, a voice in the GOP... there will be a struggle over the next few years for the nation's heart and soul and I really don't know if we will get through this. I truly hope so but have my doubts... we need unity but we also need a commitment to live to the best ideals of what America can be. We need a little less ambition and love of power, a little less ego and a lot more genuine concern to get things done to help make America really a land of opportunity for all.

To those who don't want to listen or reflect, I don't give a flying fuck. I don't want the Russians to get a pass... I know they are awful, and Putin is no potential friend to work with or get soft on. We have to know what they did, and try to make sure it never happens again. But we also have to acknowledge our government has played these kind of games(not to the institutional level but in terms of favoring governments that met our interests and sometimes removing governments that didn't). To act otherwise, with unreflective moral superiority, would be a hypocritical disgrace.

There has to be an intellectual consistency and honesty we don't have really. All we have is finger pointing and accusations .. casting aspersions on the motives of Bernie or his supporters. Some have gone with the far right, and supported Trump... a small number but a distressing thing nonetheless. Bernie isn't God, he's not our Savior but he isn't the devil either by any means and what he supports and represents is where we should be as a starting point of reference... trying to do the best for Americans who work hard or want opportunities but see how much the deck is stacked against them. Sometimes even by those Democrats who say they stand with ordinary Americans.

Sorry for the rambling, but I'm done with self serving , self described progressives standing in judgement over others.

But I also strongly advise those non-establishment supporting Democrats to fight within the party, to not minimize future outsiders like Trump who unlike him may have greater political gifts and be far more dangerous... we cannot afford to give continued power to the GOP. We have to keep working to move the party from comfortable establishment power to serving the interests of the people who elected them to represent ordinary Americans from all walks of life... we are seen as the enemy by some but we want Democrats to be Democrats again and stand for something better than just improving things on the margins. We have on average 2% growth a year, and where it was a given we would expect succeeding generations to do better and have more opportunities to hey, next generation... you're on your own! We need to appeal to American optimism and vision, to be creative.... not anti business but against having a scenario where the big winners have a huge table to themselves where party leaders hang but the rest of us have to share a small table of leftovers and limited opportunities. We need a truly forward thinking, inspirational leadership and yes wherever possible we have to spark that creativity and leadership ourselves and not wait for Washington, DC's attention or approval.

I just want to see America attain amazing possibilities in a time where so much is bringing us down. I am not a troll, maybe a dreamer but I'm damned proud to be one. I apologize for nothing except I wish I had the intellect and talents to go out there myself and be a real part of that change. But if I can't, I damn well will strongly encourage those who dare dream of big possibilities to go and help bring it about.

Great post.

 

[ballcaphair]

Great post.

It is a great post and as a conservative (which is not ever a republican) there are things that a federal government can do cost Effective healthcare and national security. Identity politics is based on emotion, a foundation of sand.

 

[opinterph]

[It is] Impossible to take [the Republican side of US politics] seriously, at least as a solution to any problems.

… [Republicans] very much seem at the point of bringing the US to ruin and taking out a halfway decent pillar of civilization around the globe in the process.

Are you worried about the future of humanity?

[Democrats] have to stop with this "undocumented" euphemistic nonsense.

… Again, some people need to be shown the door (of the country,

Why can’t the idea of free trade expand to include the world’s labor force?