Op-Ed What does the current establishment Democrats stand for?

[TX-Beau]

And you consider this to be "Progressive"? The term doesn't seem to match the description.

OHHH Putting words in my mouth, what's next, name calling?

You're not very good at this are you?

 

[Kulindahr]

Yeah....but it makes good sense to have Trump.

Odd -- I didn't know Trump was an establishment Democrat.

 

[Kulindahr]

Uhh... no

https://nextcity.org/features/view/the-post-recession-homelessness-epidemic



This was what should have been done. But they said that banks are too big to fail.

The proper thing to do with something too big to fail is to chop it into many small pieces, because the mere existence of a company too big to fail is a threat to liberty.

 

[Kulindahr]

so the apathy is not with the supporters of senator sanders. Most voted for secretary clinton.

As for non-voters, either they were suppressed or did not vote at all. When the supreme court gutted the voting rights act in 2013 and republican states were starting to change their voting rules, the obama administration and the democratic party failed to make effective and timely interventions. Indeed, some filed cases but that's that. While waiting for these cases to prosper, what the past administration and the democratic party could have done is to assist prospective voters in registering them. Well, its likely that the establishment leaders believed that the money that can be used to help the facilitation of registering prospective voters on the ground is better used on advertisements.

As for those who did not vote at all, the holy grail here is that you better give reasons to participate in the political process. Give them reasons to believe that they are not simply choosing on both sides of the same coin. Show them that you're fighting for their interests. Sad to say, the democratic party failed their democratic base.

If there's one thing, you can say about republicans, they are mostly one and united in doing their thing. Look no further with the appointments of justice neil gorsuch and the current deathcut bill that is being discussed in the senate. There are maybe some dissent but when push comes to shove, they fall in line. All it takes for them is some guts to change senate rules to allow a simple majority to affirm the appointment of a supreme court justice and reconciliation to pass that deathcut bill.

Compared that when democrats were in power 2009-2010. Democrats, could have passed a nationwide-based public option under the same rules that the senate republicans are doing. But they didn't, allowing the likes of ben nelson and joe lieberman to sabotage it and give them excuse to dilute it in furtherance of the interest of big health insurance and big pharma. And from there on, people saw how the obama administration negotiated with the big pharma and big health insurance on writing the contents of the current obamacare. Hail the so-called compromise. A big gift to health insurance companies where everyone are required to have health insurance or pay a penalty. A proposal to buy imported cheaper medicines from canada was also blocked at the behest of big pharma. The farce is this corporately written law was not passed with 60 votes but through reconciliation when it could have passed the nationwide-based public option using the same method in the first place. Everyone saw this treachery and the rest is history.

Keep blaming voters. That will surely help retaking the white house, congress, senate, governors' mansions and state legislatures.

 

[ballcaphair]

Big Pharma and their place at the table removes all leverage for even those of us who dispense them. Our clinic's med costs have risen and without generics, we have no choice. Also, by the way, we have no profit margin.

 

[Sausy]

Sorry to hear that, ballcaphair. The biggest challenge I have to the Dem establishment.. and those here and elsewhere who support them... yes, in many ways they would be better than Trump. But would you hold their feet to the fire, and demand accountability from them? Would you demand better of them? Despite what East Of Eden and other defenders say(even denying the corporatism and shaky character of their leadership) they are not working in the best interests of the American people. At this point in time, not allowing a public option for basic decent care for all is tantamount to being a criminal offense.... in other countries with a public option, if you want extra you can pay for private services too but everyone who needs medical care can receive it without worry they can't afford to pay for it afterwards. Say either it's a basic right or a basic civil obligation, the idea that basic health care for all is something that a modern society values is something that should be beyond debate... and if you have politicians in the Democratic Party sabotaging or blocking the way for joining the rest of the modern industrial/technological nations of the world in having basic health care for all, it's inexcusable.

 

[eastofeden]

Sorry to hear that, ballcaphair. The biggest challenge I have to the Dem establishment.. and those here and elsewhere who support them... yes, in many ways they would be better than Trump. But would you hold their feet to the fire, and demand accountability from them? Would you demand better of them? Despite what East Of Eden and other defenders say(even denying the corporatism and shaky character of their leadership) they are not working in the best interests of the American people. At this point in time, not allowing a public option for basic decent care for all is tantamount to being a criminal offense..
.

Please show me where I have denied the corporate interests. Not addressing them is not the same as denying them. I will not give the right wing or trolls any more ammunition. I complain about it plenty in my 3-D world and I am one of the people who regularly interacts with my local and state and national political representatives. I talked about it waaaaayyyyyy before any other liberals on the political board I was on at the time when I was making a case for Dennis Kucinich....and it made me sick to my stomach to hear right wing trolls repeating the things I said..

As for shaky character...I think Dems are idiots for constantly eating their own publicly while Republicans fall in line. I do NOT fall in line...and I do hold them accountable...but not on an Internet Forum. The Internet is like a mob now....everyone does the pile on thing....

I take the role of defending Democrats because ...uh...no one else is doing it. I'm not even that good at it....but I am at least gonna try until someone more eloquent than I am takes over. They are the party who made Marriage Equality happen. I know...most of you will criticize that as well but I THANK THEM. They are also the party who protects a woman's right to choose and their record on the environment....it may not be all of them but when you see people fighting for environmental issues...it is Democrats and Liberals..NOT Republicans for the most part (except for Arnold)...

They are far from perfect...and I don't expect perfection from anyone or anything anyway...but they damn sure beat the hell out of the competition...for me...

...and what gets me about "groups" where everyone is part of a movement because other people told you to be....how about not being so lazy and IDENTIFYING the EXACT DEMOCRATS who killed the Public Option/Single Payer when they had the chance...like Joe Lieberman and Max Baucus.

I will not just throw all Democrats under the bus..and I also look at the whole picture.

 

[ballcaphair]

Brilliant. No one can see the whole picture without a 3-D perspective. And we must all live in a 3-D world.

 

[Kulindahr]

Big Pharma and their place at the table removes all leverage for even those of us who dispense them. Our clinic's med costs have risen and without generics, we have no choice. Also, by the way, we have no profit margin.

Right there is something Democrats ought to stand for: 89% of Americans agree that corporate money has no business being in politics. It's past time to amend the Constitution to specify what the Framers took for granted: that only living, breathing individual human beings have rights -- and to thus exclude all artificial entities from politics except those specifically created for individuals to band together -- think of it as citizens uniting -- to exercise their political rights as a group.

 

[Kulindahr]

....and it made me sick to my stomach to hear right wing trolls repeating the things I said..

If you stop speaking truth because someone else might repeat it, you've already lost the game.

 

[Kulindahr]

Brilliant. No one can see the whole picture without a 3-D perspective. And we must all live in a 3-D world.

I read an article a while back that argued human society has gotten more complex than humans are capable of understanding. It's something to ponder when we look for people to vote for.

 

[Benvolio]

Right there is something Democrats ought to stand for: 89% of Americans agree that corporate money has no business being in politics. It's past time to amend the Constitution to specify what the Framers took for granted: that only living, breathing individual human beings have rights -- and to thus exclude all artificial entities from politics except those specifically created for individuals to band together -- think of it as citizens uniting -- to exercise their political rights as a group.

Does that include newspaper corporation money? Other media corporate money? Democrat National Committee money? George Soros Corporat money?

 

[opinterph]

As a flesh, blood and soul progressive, it pains me seeing on what has become of the Democratic Party. It is now becoming the party of deregulation, corporate welfare, and other regressive policies …

Please explain how the Democratic Party has promoted “deregulation, corporate welfare, and other regressive policies.”

trying to convince pigs to sing is a stupid waste of time.

“Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

― Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love​

I say, TA DA. We are not them and therefore we are us. (If either party snags this as a slogan, remember you heard it here first.)

“Yet the vows of this Nation can only be fulfilled if we in this Nation are first, and, therefore, we intend to be first. In short, our leadership in science and in industry, our hopes for peace and security, our obligations to ourselves as well as others, all require us to make this effort, to solve these mysteries, to solve them for the good of all men, and to become the world's leading space-faring nation.”

John F. Kennedy Moon Speech (1962)​

[Democrats and Liberals] are far from perfect...and I don't expect perfection from anyone or anything anyway...but they damn sure beat the hell out of the competition...for me...

 

[Kulindahr]

Does that include newspaper corporation money? Other media corporate money? Democrat National Committee money? George Soros Corporat money?

Seriously, can you read?


I'll tackle one of those: if the Democratic Party were reorganized with dues-paying members and that was their only source of revenue, it would qualify as an entity organized solely for the purpose of individuals banding together to exercise their free speech in politics.

 

[Sausy]

Come on, the Democrats under Clinton have become very corporate friendly. Are we Republicans? Of course not... but there's a lot more concern in the DNC for Wall Street and Silicon Valley than those who have what Democrats since the New Deal times have been saying they represent... the average and forgotten folks. Let's have Democratic leadership that stands for something... I loathe Trump, and just about all of the rest of what passes for "leadership" in the GOP. Yes, of course the Supreme Court is of vital importance but the key is to stand for core principles... it used to be taken for granted generations would work hard in the knowledge that the next one, the world given their children, will be one of better opportunities and a better life. That isn't the case now by a longshot... we can't afford to keep electing insulated, ambitious people we are forced to settle for because, hell.. as that particular Democratic propping up point said, "Have you seen the other guys?" What a fucking outrageous piece of shit cynicism being sold there... so the only choice is take your medicine and "resistance is futile"... you will be integrated into the Democratic Borg.

And if some people want to take the side of the party because no one else is(damn, lol... who's in charge of the party and won't even tolerate the idea of real reform and real standing on principles.. the party can stand for itself without any volunteers)fine... but I'm not a troll, I don't ever want to cause problems for anyone here and I am really upset about where we are as a country. However, I'm not in a position in my life of being able to effect change, I'm not in the professions where I even have the opportunity to hob nob with the powerful trying but meeting with great futility to get them to change. My 3D life ain't yours. My reality isn't a particularly good one... we're headed for our 250th anniversary as a nation in less than ten years and who knows if we won't have fucked ourselves up beyond all hope of repair at that point to be worth celebrating at all.

If the Democrats got a clue there would be a fighting chance, but there is no chance with the GOP. By the way, I would have voted for Hillary absolutely though reluctantly if my home state had been closer.. New Jersey is where I'm from and she won by 12 points. Even if she has never been charged with anything, she's not the kind of person we need as a country. Fuck being "I'm with her" was she "with us"? She's a corporate, establishment party patrician of the highest order along with her husband who built a revolving door of corporate and Wall Street interests(which cannot be denied or minimized) to help them get into power. I'm glad she didn't get a coronation but a challenge from a guy who was better as an New Deal Democrat being a nominal Democrat(generally independent most of his career)... someone I proudly supported in the primaries, Senator Bernie Sanders. Yet I would have voted if push came to shove for Hillary because I knew Donald Trump would be poison... but that galls me because we shouldn't be in that position anymore. The party needs US.. we must no longer put our country be put in a position of our flawed leadership vs the wreckage that would result if the GOP was in charge. They work for US... NO longer we should accept politics as usual. Bigger things are at stake... MUCH bigger... than to continue to be held hostage to their selfishness and cynicism... their arrogance and entitlement.

 

[Kulindahr]

^
In short, the Democrats need to get back to being democrats.

 

[ballcaphair]

If you stop speaking truth because someone else might repeat it, you've already lost the game.

They may not know the tune, but they're singing you lyrics. I so understand where you are coming from, but regardless, we all know a troll when we see one. Skewing the truth is a spoiler alert. I respect your truth. Hold your head up high.

 

[Julian89]

THe DNC is Pro-Business Center Left as it always has been.

Pro-business like pro-deregulation, pro-wealth concentration, pro-corporate welfare, pro-Wall Street among others? No. Just listen to what this guy is saying:

"We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace—business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering. They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.

Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me—and I welcome their hatred.

I should like to have it said of my first Administration that in it the forces of selfishness and of lust for power met their match. I should like to have it said of my second Administration that in it these forces met their master"

 

[Julian89]

...and what gets me about "groups" where everyone is part of a movement because other people told you to be....how about not being so lazy and IDENTIFYING the EXACT DEMOCRATS who killed the Public Option/Single Payer when they had the chance...like Joe Lieberman and Max Baucus.

I will not just throw all Democrats under the bus..and I also look at the whole picture.

Yeah and the whole picture back then was that there were 59 democrats in the Senate. Through reconciliation, they could have passed a genuine healthcare reform with a nationwide-based public option with just 50 votes + then-VP Joe Biden effectively giving a middle finger to the likes of Joe Lieberman, Ben Nelson and Max Baucus.

But then again, someone needs to play the rotating villain

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rotating villain

More details here: http://www.salon.com/2010/02/23/democrats_34/

 

[Julian89]

Please explain how the Democratic Party has promoted “deregulation, corporate welfare, and other regressive policies.”

Recent examples
1. Not breaking up already TBTF banks in Dodd-Frank
2. Dismantling public option in favor of mandated insurance or penalty in Obamacare
3. Not supporting importation of cheaper medicines from Canada
4. Lobbying for TransPacific Partnership
5. Hawkish foreign policy in the Middle East
6. Proposed cuts to Social Security thru chained CPI