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What has changed, dream ticket almost certain.

E

evanrick

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Hillary's main vulnerability has almost disappeared. Her vote to authorize force in Iraq came back to haunt her in the 2008 primaries but is almost never talked about anymore.

While Hillary has more recently been seen as a stronger opponent to John McCain, that argument is not enough to win her the nomination. If she would have made this case sooner instead of her experience argument, she could have won.

Her campaign also highlights a failed electoral strategy, counting on big wins in big states to make up for losses in smaller states. Hillary of all people should know that putting all your eggs in one basket never works, it didn't work for John Kerry in 2004 and didn't work for Hillary Clinton in the 2008 primaries.

The American political landscape is one of illusions, where delegates are proportional, meaning even if you win the popular vote it does not mean you win the election. While Hillary has managed to rack up huge margins among white working-class voters and women, Barack has benefited from grassroots support across the electoral spectrum.

Almost 36 Million people have voted in the Democratic primary, which is an astonishing number, considering John Kerry and George Bush got 59 & 62 million votes.

If this trend continues into the general election you can safely say Obama will be the next president. And Hillary's 18 million voters is something Barack cannot take for granted.
 
Excellent points, excellently made.

And it's now crystal clear that Obama will do anything for policial expediency.

But a few comments:

First, people don't vote for VP, they vote top of the ticket.

Secondly, a big part of what Hillary supporters want is Hillary doing the job of President. It's not a personality thing, it's her plans, proposals, principled commitment, ability to fight and be tenacious for what she believes in. We want her vision and smarts to lead America's economic policy and energy policy and foreign policy, etc. I'm not sure that her being VP is all that appealing. Anyway that's the sense I get from listening to Hillary supporters.

You're right that an amazing number of people have voted in the Democratic Primary, and half of them voted for Hillary. The way the DNC and many leading Democrats have been behaving, though, they could yet again be turning opportunity into disaster for the Party. The Rules Committee taking 4 Michigan delegates from Hillary and giving them to Obama, as one example, is infuriating a lot of Democrats. If Obama wins the nomination, the way he's done it may make it impossible for him to unify the party; and of course the same would be true if Hillary wins the nomination.

Howard Dean, Donna Brazile, Nancy Pelosi, and many other Democrats who've had the power to steer this in a much better direction have made a huge mess out of one of the greatest opportunities the Democratic Party has ever had. As a sidenote to that, I think it's fascinating that Al Gore has stayed completely out of the fray.
 
evanrick said:
Hillary's main vulnerability has almost disappeared. Her vote to authorize force in Iraq came back to haunt her in the 2008 primaries but is almost never talked about anymore.

While Hillary has more recently been seen as a stronger opponent to John McCain, that argument is not enough to win her the nomination. If she would have made this case sooner instead of her experience argument, she could have won.

Her campaign also highlights a failed electoral strategy, counting on big wins in big states to make up for losses in smaller states. Hillary of all people should know that putting all your eggs in one basket never works, it didn't work for John Kerry in 2004 and didn't work for Hillary Clinton in the 2008 primaries.

The American political landscape is one of illusions, where delegates are proportional, meaning even if you win the popular vote it does not mean you win the election. While Hillary has managed to rack up huge margins among white working-class voters and women, Barack has benefited from grassroots support across the electoral spectrum.

Almost 36 Million people have voted in the Democratic primary, which is an astonishing number, considering John Kerry and George Bush got 59 & 62 million votes.

If this trend continues into the general election you can safely say Obama will be the next president. And Hillary's 18 million voters is something Barack cannot take for granted.
Click to expand...

Please see the Electoral Map thread. And I'm not sure she would have won the nomination by verbally saying she was "stronger than John McCain" earlier, like you suggested.
 
Midnight77 said:
And I'm not sure she would have won the nomination by verbally saying she was "stronger than John McCain" earlier, like you suggested.
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I almost never get to say this so I can't miss it:

I agree with you. ;)
 
Let's hope this ticket doesn't happen.

You don't reward bad behavior. Hillary getting anything out of this from Obama will reward bad behavior.

If he helps her out with her campaign debt, I will have serious thoughts about Obama and what he stands for...
 
My guess is Obama will pay off her campaign debts and assure her to be his first choice to Supreme Court nominee upon a vacancy.

I don't think she wants to be his VP. Hence my money is on the Supreme Court position instead.
 
EvilForce said:
My guess is Obama will pay off her campaign debts and assure her to be his first choice to Supreme Court nominee upon a vacancy.

I don't think she wants to be his VP. Hence my money is on the Supreme Court position instead.
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Supreme Court nominee??? After she was the first First Lady to come under Criminal Investigation???

Are we sure this is a wise idea?
 
I'm not sure where this Supreme Court business came from either, but it's been popping up all over the place.

If a Democrat is elected, I'd like to see a jurist nominated who is a philosophical powerhouse, a modern-day Douglas, Marshall, or Brennan. I think Clinton's skills are utilized best in the Senate leadership or as a cabinet officer.

As far as the cabinet, there are only a few positions that wouldn't be viewed as a demotion, and probably Attorney General is most likely.
 
Supreme Court nominee??? After she was the first First Lady to come under Criminal Investigation???

Was she convicted? Or was this another ploy, by the Republicans to remind us how some of their self righteous senators were discovered playing footsie, whilst whistling holier than thou.
 
I would be surprised (and sickened) if we see an Obama/Clinton ticket. I suspect we'll more likely see an Obama/Sebelius which would be awesome.
 
Lostlover said:
Let's hope this ticket doesn't happen.

You don't reward bad behavior. Hillary getting anything out of this from Obama will reward bad behavior.

If he helps her out with her campaign debt, I will have serious thoughts about Obama and what he stands for...
Click to expand...

Obama is supposed to stand for unity, bringing people together despite who or what they are...that is his supposed message.

I don't know where the hell you have been, but I have serious doubts you truly understand anything about his message. Here is another shining example of your urge to cut people down, like you do the older people and the "uneducated".

You are truly the most sorry individual I have ever seen on JUB.
 
First off, I no longer view it as a dream ticket. The two sides are too divided.

Second, I don't think "dream ticket" will happen. If it does, I'd have to reevaluate my thoughts on Obama. Not because Clinton is a bad person, but VP is NOT the spot for her. She's too dominant. She would need to be president or a high, relatively autonomous cabinet position. I don't see her as a supreme court justice either.
 
John Kerry picked John Edwards as his running mate in 2004 and Edwards did not perform nearly as well as Hillary has. Kerry could have picked anyone to be his VP but he chose Edwards because he was able to demonstrate his political skills and prove to be an asset to the campaign.

I do not see how Barack cannot choose Hillary. She is still more well known that he is and she represents an entirely different kind of voter than his.

I would say they have been running a primary for over a year and they might as well keep going till November.
 
ryankeith said:
Obama is supposed to stand for unity, bringing people together despite who or what they are...that is his supposed message.

I don't know where the hell you have been, but I have serious doubts you truly understand anything about his message. Here is another shining example of your urge to cut people down, like you do the older people and the "uneducated".

You are truly the most sorry individual I have ever seen on JUB.
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The truth is Lostlover understands perfectly the submessage of Obama and his campaign. Listen to Obama supporters and you'll hear the same stuff over and over, some with prettied-up language but it's very consistent.

Obama brings people together the way a cult does, the way Bush did: if you're with us you're cool and if you're not you're shunned, ridiculed, denigrated. The world is an old place and this is not a new tactic to "win friends and influence people." And it always ends up the same way.
 
evanrick said:
John Kerry picked John Edwards as his running mate in 2004 and Edwards did not perform nearly as well as Hillary has. Kerry could have picked anyone to be his VP but he chose Edwards because he was able to demonstrate his political skills and prove to be an asset to the campaign.

I do not see how Barack cannot choose Hillary. She is still more well known that he is and she represents an entirely different kind of voter than his.

I would say they have been running a primary for over a year and they might as well keep going till November.
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Kerry surrogates and supporters did not spew the poison at Edwards and his supporters that Obama supporters have at Clinton and her supporters. They've been nasty and they've been personal, making this about feminism and ageism and racism, deeply offending the principled sensibilities of millions of Democratic voters.

You're right that Obama should choose Hillary, and maybe he will, but I agree with those posters who essentially say it won't unify the party. Because of the divisions Obama and his supporters have created in the Democratic Party, the general election has become McCain's to win or lose.
 
I think Hill would be best to just stay in the Senate and take over Ted Kennedy's place ((should he ever leave)) as a vocal liberal fighting for health care, pro-choice, gun control, and gay rights.

She could stay there much longer than she could ever stay in the White House
 
MidnightPrism said:
I think Hill would be best to just stay in the Senate and take over Ted Kennedy's place ((should he ever leave)) as a vocal liberal fighting for health care, pro-choice, gun control, and gay rights.

She could stay there much longer than she could ever stay in the White House
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I nominate this post as Post of the Week. I could not have said it better myself.
 
MidnightPrism said:
I think Hill would be best to just stay in the Senate and take over Ted Kennedy's place ((should he ever leave)) as a vocal liberal fighting for health care, pro-choice, gun control, and gay rights.

She could stay there much longer than she could ever stay in the White House
Click to expand...


Well, of course, that's what many Obama leaning pundits have said in an attempt to sound respectful to Senator Clinton.

In the context of her winning more primary votes than any Democratic candidate in history, and more contests than Obama in the past month, some of them by stunningly huge margins, it's a dismissive suggestion.

And those who know the details of their lives recognize that Hillary Clinton and Ted Kennedy are about as different as two people can be. Suggesting she have the career he's had in the Senate is like giving a booby prize to a thoroughbred.

That's not to say that she couldn't have a long productive career in the Senate if she wants that, but the suggestion at this point is derisive to her legitimate success in this Primary -- something Ted Kennedy only dreamed of.
 
You're probably right, Nick. It's probably too late for Sen. Clinton to have such a distinguished career as Sen. Kennedy's. Thanks for bringing me back to reality.
 
construct said:
You're probably right, Nick. It's probably too late for Sen. Clinton to have such a distinguished career as Sen. Kennedy's. Thanks for bringing me back to reality.
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That's not what I said.

In fact I said exactly the opposite: "That's not to say that she couldn't have a long productive career in the Senate if she wants that ..."

Thanks for reminding how Obama supporters support a position by mischaracterizing what people say.
 
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