What Is a Conservative?

[MercuryJones]

If you have an opinion of what a Conservative is, please help me understand in this way:

1. State 5 public policy positions you believe are widely held by true conservatives today.
2. List at least 3 living public figures you believe are true Conservatives.

Thank you.

 

[ManLicker]

If you have an opinion of what a Conservative is, please help me understand in this way:

1. State 5 public policy positions you believe are widely held by true conservatives today.
2. List at least 3 living public figures you believe are true Conservatives.

Thank you.

1. a. The sole legitimate purposes for government are waging war and suppressing sex.
b. Religious orthodoxy is the basis of morality and the force of government power must support religion.
c. Secularism is the enemy of faith and must be suppressed, using any degree of force necessary.
d. The media are secularist and must be forcefully suppressed; only media that support religion may be allowed.
e. Scripture is the basis of holy faith and must hold a protected position. No criticism of holy scripture may be permitted.

2. a. Pope Benedict
b. President Ahmadinejad
c. Mullah Omar
d. Every Southern Baptist preacher in the country
e. Saint Sarah of Wasillah

 

[rareboy]

1. A true conservative believes in fiscal responsibility, i.e. you pay for what you buy. A true conservative would grow what they eat and appreciate that you only consume what you need, not what you desire.

2. A true conservative believes in constructive debt. They understand the necessity of investment to yield future reward.

2. A true conservative doesn't want government in the bedrooms of the nation and isn't interested in dictating what his neighbours do.

3. A true conservative believes in compassion and that every man has a responsibility to help those in need.

3. A true conservative recognizes that no man is an island and that government is not a necessary evil but the necessary basis for civil society. A true conservative, however believes that the best government occurs at the community level, where the citizens have a direct and daily responsibility to one another.

5. A true conservative is the ultimate environmentalist. They understand the need to conserve resources, to replenish what they take and to not be wasteful. They throw nothing out; even when it is completely worn out, they understand that the remnants may still be put to other use. They also understand that humans do great damage to the natural environment and try to limit the impact they have on habitat.

Bonus point.

6. A true conservative may be a person of deep faith or an atheist. They do not desire to create 'windows into men's souls'.



Our neighbour and one of our best friends is a true conservative.

I can't think of two others who are still alive, but I know they are out there. The endless quacking by the hyper-partisan republican christian right wing is the antithesis of conservatism.

 

[Sausy]

Very interesting take from one of our Canadian friends ...one disturbing aspect in your country's own politics is the creeping moralistic conservatism in the Conservative Party,being influenced by our religious right.Definitely apppreciate your perspectives in starting a conversation here as opposed to the more typical left vs right foodfights that permeate here....having a discussion where people can actually talk to each other than at or over one another.

 

[JB3]

1. A true conservative believes in fiscal responsibility, i.e. you pay for what you buy. A true conservative would grow what they eat and appreciate that you only consume what you need, not what you desire.

2. A true conservative believes in constructive debt. They understand the necessity of investment to yield future reward.

2. A true conservative doesn't want government in the bedrooms of the nation and isn't interested in dictating what his neighbours do.

3. A true conservative believes in compassion and that every man has a responsibility to help those in need.

3. A true conservative recognizes that no man is an island and that government is not a necessary evil but the necessary basis for civil society. A true conservative, however believes that the best government occurs at the community level, where the citizens have a direct and daily responsibility to one another.

5. A true conservative is the ultimate environmentalist. They understand the need to conserve resources, to replenish what they take and to not be wasteful. They throw nothing out; even when it is completely worn out, they understand that the remnants may still be put to other use. They also understand that humans do great damage to the natural environment and try to limit the impact they have on habitat.

Bonus point.

6. A true conservative may be a person of deep faith or an atheist. They do not desire to create 'windows into men's souls'.



Our neighbour and one of our best friends is a true conservative.

I can't think of two others who are still alive, but I know they are out there. The endless quacking by the hyper-partisan republican christian right wing is the antithesis of conservatism.

QFT.

 

[ThreeCrows]

Merc, this is a really good question about "true Conservatives" that I have been wondering about lately myself and rareboy, you have given a thoughtful response.

The endless quacking by the hyper-partisan republican christian right wing is the antithesis of conservatism.

This part rings very true to me. I feel that conservatives have had their values hijacked and splintered. They've been Bill O'Reilly'd, Glenn Beck'ed, and Ann Coulter'ed to a point of absurdity. The media representatives of conservatives are not interested the conservative values, truth or reality - they are interested in selling their paid speaking engagements, airtime, and their latest book. They are ready to sell you a bridge and snake oil, while scolding you for not paying them more.

 

[MercuryJones]

I'm hopeful that someone will identify three well-known living true Conservatives.

Especially from someone who personally leans to or identifies as Conservative.

 

[MoltenRock III]

0. A true conservative believes in fiscal responsibility, i.e. you pay for what you buy.
1. A true conservative believes in constructive debt.
2. A true conservative doesn't want government in the bedrooms of the nation and isn't interested in dictating what his neighbours do.
3. A true conservative believes in compassion and that every man has a responsibility to help those in need.
4. A true conservative recognizes that no man is an island and that government is not a necessary evil but the necessary basis for civil society.
5. A true conservative is the ultimate environmentalist.

I can't think of two others who are still alive, but I know they are out there. The endless quacking by the hyper-partisan republican christian right wing is the antithesis of conservatism.

Teddy Roosevelt was the ultimate "true conservative". Nixon too, was much closer to a "true conservative" than any elected Republican currently. But they would be kicked out of the Republican party today as Socialist tree huggers. Roosevelt created the National Park System, and Nixon created the EPA as well as both proposed and passed the Clean Air Act and Clean Water Act. These 3 things have had a huge impact on America for the better. The differences between the environment between 1970 and 1990 were massive.

Remember, the EPA is the agency both Sharron Angle and a number of "conservatives" now condemn and seek to ban/outlaw/eliminate. Just like "Cap & Trade which is a Republican idea as was/is the "Death Panels" on the Healthcare Reform Act which Obama passed, the EPA and Clean Air & Water Acts was a Republican accomplishment. An accomplishment they seek to "undo". Pathetic!

 

[Kulindahr]

This is done well enough I'm going to use it as the basis for my comments:

1. A true conservative believes in fiscal responsibility, i.e. you pay for what you buy. A true conservative would grow what they eat and appreciate that you only consume what you need, not what you desire.

A true conservative would not necessarily grow what he eats, but he'd prefer to buy it only from people he knows, who live on the land where the food is grown and care about it. A true conservative would not expect fresh oranges all year -- though maybe for a holiday.

2. A true conservative believes in constructive debt. They understand the necessity of investment to yield future reward.

Stress the word investment here. But a true conservative also recognizes that there are emergencies which require debt to pay for.

2. A true conservative doesn't want government in the bedrooms of the nation and isn't interested in dictating what his neighbours do.

A true conservative doesn't want government in the bathroom, kitchen, pantry, or garage, either. And a true conservative knows that peering over a fence to see what's going on is a violation of proivacy, regardless of what the Supreme Court says.

3. A true conservative believes in compassion and that every man has a responsibility to help those in need.

A true conservative recognizes that in some situations, helping those in need requires being armed so that the evildoer can be stopped -- and that shooting to stop the evildoer is compassion for the only one in the situatiion deserving any.

3. A true conservative recognizes that no man is an island and that government is not a necessary evil but the necessary basis for civil society. A true conservative, however believes that the best government occurs at the community level, where the citizens have a direct and daily responsibility to one another.

True conservatives recognize that government is a necessary evil -- but that so long as government recognizes that it is the servant and property of the people, the evil is negligible. A true conservative recognizes that the government has no authority to do anything at all which does not derive from a right belonging to each and every individual.

5. A true conservative is the ultimate environmentalist. They understand the need to conserve resources, to replenish what they take and to not be wasteful. They throw nothing out; even when it is completely worn out, they understand that the remnants may still be put to other use. They also understand that humans do great damage to the natural environment and try to limit the impact they have on habitat.

Which is why a true conservative would be clamoring for those with resources to get "anything to oil" plants springing up all over the country -- because then, even the trash we can't figure out what to do with becomes a resource, not waste material.

Bonus point.

6. A true conservative may be a person of deep faith or an atheist. They do not desire to create 'windows into men's souls'.

Quite. To steal a phrase stolen by C. S. Lewis from a friend, the conservative man of faith "quietly persuades"; he does not engage in a constant stream of verbiage. And to lift from both Lewis and Luther, a true conservative would rather have a good, sensible, competent man in authority even if that man is of an 'opposing' faith, than one of his own who was merely satisfactory.

Our neighbour and one of our best friends is a true conservative.

I can't think of two others who are still alive, but I know they are out there. The endless quacking by the hyper-partisan republican christian right wing is the antithesis of conservatism.

I know a couple, in out of the way places. One of my favorites is a couple with a house that overlooks the beach. As true conservatives, they believe others should be left alone so long as they don't bother anyone else -- so if there's a bonfire on the beach, people dancing all naked, people naked in the surf and dunes, people of all ages drinking, sex going on in the grass, they don't call the cops unless there's excessive noise or evident violence.

And they chew out their neighbors who do.


And that brings an item I'm adding to rare's list:

A true conservative believe others are free to do as they please so long as no one else is harmed.



And another:

A true conservative believes that it's better for a hundred guilty to walk free than one innocent man be punished.

 

[JB3]

There is no true conservative, and English is a non-standardized language unlike many others including such languages as French and Hebrew. Therefore all English words are defined as how they are actually used. The term "conservative" defined is how it is now not how some people wish it were.

That's just not true JB. You know very well that the term 'conservative' has been hijacked by the nutjobs in their quest to find legitimacy. They are no more 'conservatives' than Obama or Pelosi are.

 

[JB3]

I'm hopeful that someone will identify three well-known living true Conservatives.

Especially from someone who personally leans to or identifies as Conservative.

Larry P. Arnn - President of the college I graduated from. Very much believes in individual liberty and conservative ideals without venturing into the lunacy of the religious conservatives.

Paul Rahe - Historian that also believes in conservative ideals.

Ronald Pestritto - Historian that has devoted his life to studying progressives. He can articulate the differences between conservatives and progressives quite well, but also subscribes to the type of conservatism that bible thumpers would disdain.

Thomas Krannawitter - Brilliant political scientist. He's a Lincoln scholar, but also writes quite extensively on issues concerning multiculturalism and other issues dealing with education.

 

[JB3]

The notion of a "true" anything is just a fallacy that belies the reality on the ground.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_scotsman

The No True Scotsman fallacy is a rather cheap method of escapism from an uncomfortable situation.

Except it doesn't, because true conservatives still exist. I'm not surprised that you can't understand.

 

[Ben1]

Many true sentences. But one thing more:
A true conservative respects other opinions and is not against compromise with his political opponent. He wants the best for his country and not only the best for his party.
I am not a conservative but I like to discuss with them. The problem is, that the GOP has less and less conservatives and more and more pigheads (Tea-Party). Since George W. Bush it is a new party and not longer the real Republican Party. Its an ignorance of ideologically blinded fundamentalists inside the GOP ( words like "Obama is a socialist", its humbug).

True conservatives were/are Bob Dole, George Shultz, Secretary William Cohen, James Baker, Senator John McCain, Senator Orrin Hatch, Secretary General Powell...but their time is over and the new generation will destroy the GOP.
And even as a liberal I have to say, each country needs two or more political sides - and the USA needs a strong Democratic Party AND a strong Republican Party (maybe a real Green Party too). But today the GOP is a Punch and Judy Show.

 

[JB3]

You didn't even click the link, did you?

"True" anything never exists. Not ever.

I did. (and what's with the attitude)

You're asserting something that is not correct. Get over it.

 

[JB3]

The amusing thing is you and others in this thread still believe, and adamantly I might add, that there are exceptions to the No True Scotsman fallacy.

There aren't.

Added to that fact is there exists no official definition for any word in English. The entire lexicon is fluid and vernacular. The word conservative means what all conservatives are or believe, not a few whom some would like to term "true." Not all Scotsmen need eat haggis.

But you're so convinced otherwise, aren't you?

And you maintain that the crazies calling themselves conservatives are actually so, when they are quite clearly not. Regardless of what you think, there is a set definition of what a conservative is (a group to which many belong) that those that you claim are conservatives do not fit.

We've had this argument before, and you have apparently still learned nothing.

 

[MercuryJones]

JB3, thank you for naming a few people. But I'm hoping for some more household name types.

 

[JB3]

JB3, thank you for naming a few people. But I'm hoping for some more household name types.

Well, for conservatives, those ARE household names.

 

[MercuryJones]

Well, for conservatives, those ARE household names.

But for ordinary people they aren't.

Is this a way of saying there are no widely known true conservatives?

 

[JB3]

But for ordinary people they aren't.

Is this a way of saying there are no nationally known true conservatives?

There are, many of them are no longer living, however.

 

[MercuryJones]

They say the same about you. So what makes you right and them wrong?

You are actually both conservatives.

You're getting into the area I was aiming for with my original post.