What is a Progressive?

[bankside]

Of course liberal actually means this:

Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, "of freedom")[1] is the belief in the importance of individual liberty and equal rights.[2] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but most liberals support such fundamental ideas as constitutions, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, free trade, and the separation of church and state.

That's from wikipedia, and gets pretty close to the mark.

A progressive is a sort of liberal who believes government itself can be effective in advancing those goals. Other liberals think that the parts of society outside of government need to take the lead.

And why anyone would refer to the Fox News definition of liberal is beyond me.

 

[Willie Boy]

And here I thought he was talking about an insurance policy.

 

[Edward Twinkletoes]

I look on the term as defining one who doesn't want an immediate communist revolution, but is willing to "progress" in slower steps to the same goal, the elimination of capitalism and the establishment of a socialist utopia on earth. That's what a progressive is...

And many Republicans have been, and are, progressives. Though more are in the Democratic Party.

It's not so much that they don't want an immediate communist revolution as it is that they know (knew) it won't (wouldn't) work if everyone understands what's happening. They call themselves progressives and most people don't identify that as communism in the womb (or in an early stage). There are many who DO know exactly what's up but they generally downplay it or just plain deny it. As long as the vast majority of people are incredulous to what's really going on, it can be done quietly.

 

[Kulindahr]

If that were true I'd not only vote Republican myself but donate heavily to GOP campaigns.

See now why so many less-than-informed people vote Republican?

 

[Edward Twinkletoes]

Or just plain old-fashioned paranoia as you can see in the following quote.

You're only paranoid if you're wrong. And I'm not

Ruling by fear against a threat that doesn't exist is the single most threatening thing I've ever seen to American freedom that does not come from the barrel of a gun.

That's some piece of twisted propaganda. You should do it for a living.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

To me, "Liberal" means laid back, doesn't really mind the gays but doesn't give a shit one way or the other. They're just fine with the status quo.

Progressives are more pro-active... we get out and try to make things happen. I started to work for gay equality when I was 18, volunteering for political groups, going to demonstrations, knocking on doors and being out and active.

"Liberals" are much more corporate-minded. Progressives are much more small business-minded... We think allowing too much power to lay in too few hands is a bad thing.

I don't think "liberal" is a dirty word. But I don't think it represents me.

I'm not a democrat, really. I mean, I'm registered as one to vote in the primary. But I don't feel any allegiance to the party of Blanche Lincoln or Joe Lieberman.

 

[Edward Twinkletoes]

"Liberals" are much more corporate-minded. Progressives are much more small business-minded... We think allowing too much power to lay in too few hands is a bad thing.

That's interesting. Considering that in order to disallow it, you have to put absolute power (And faith) in the hands of the one institution that has proven over and over that too much power in it's hands is worse than a bad thing. Big government will never settle for anything less than utter dominion over everything. Big government is in the business of expanding itself. When it is not growing it isn't following the mantra of "progress". The big government religion requires absolute allegiance to the idea that something is wrong with a big government that isn't constantly getting bigger and more powerful.

I don't think "liberal" is a dirty word.

I didn't either. I used to be completely against conservatism. I thought they were making all that stuff up about the liberals. I have seen enough in the last two years to convince me that they knew what they were talking about. The conservatives have their own batshit crazy factions but I made the mistake of thinking the Democrats weren't the same.

 

[Edward Twinkletoes]

How about you graduate the 3rd grade and engage in an intellectual conversation for once, hm?

Why would a 4th grader want to have an intellectual conversation with a toddler?

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

That's interesting. Considering that in order to disallow it, you have to put absolute power (And faith) in the hands of the one institution that has proven over and over that too much power in it's hands is worse than a bad thing. Big government will never settle for anything less than utter dominion over everything. Big government is in the business of expanding itself. When it is not growing it isn't following the mantra of "progress". The big government religion requires absolute allegiance to the idea that something is wrong with a big government that isn't constantly getting bigger and more powerful.

I'm not really sure what you mean by any of that. And I'm not sure you know what I meant either.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

Laika, this post is so full of shit, I don't know where to begin.

Haha.. yeah.. that should be Latka's sig file, considering the steady trail of turds that gets posted by.... that person.

 

[Edward Twinkletoes]

I rest my case...

Does that mean you'll shut up?

 

[opinterph]

Discontinue the personal slurs, please.

 

[Kulindahr]

By the way paranoia is a very common phenomenon, and everyone to a certain degree is hysterical about something which is not true. My mother in particular, is not only a pathological liar, but thinks people are out to kill her.

I met a guy recently who was paranoid: the first thing he told me is he doesn't like being lied to. Turned out he's pathologically afraid of being lied to.

Also turns out he doesn't like the competition.....

 

[CoolBlue71]

Look at history: Can anyone think of any social policy, which improved the quality of life in the U.S.,
that wasn't progressive?

 

[Kulindahr]

End of slavery
Women's suffrage
Child labor ban

...

Oh wait those were progressive victories weren't they?

Ah, there's the trouble: if it represents 'progress', progressives claim it. Which is why I forebore from mentioning anything at all: if it was 'progress', then it would be claimed.

At that point it becomes a useless label.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

Ah, there's the trouble: if it represents 'progress', progressives claim it. Which is why I forebore from mentioning anything at all: if it was 'progress', then it would be claimed.

At that point it becomes a useless label.

Not necessarily.

Progressives haven't taken any credit for the DADT lawsuit which was done by the Log Cabin guys. They also don't seem to be taking much credit for the probable end of Prop8 which was again.. rich gay conservatives.

If anything, I think progressives have failed in many of our pro-gay initiatives. We've not been progressive enough, if you want my opinion.

But I still see better times ahead for us. A long way away... but I do see them.

 

[Kulindahr]

Not necessarily.

Progressives haven't taken any credit for the DADT lawsuit which was done by the Log Cabin guys. They also don't seem to be taking much credit for the probable end of Prop8 which was again.. rich gay conservatives.

If anything, I think progressives have failed in many of our pro-gay initiatives. We've not been progressive enough, if you want my opinion.

But I still see better times ahead for us. A long way away... but I do see them.

So long as "law enforcement" here can get away with making peeing outdoors and being seen a sex crime if the guy was gay, I'm not seeing much progress.

LCR did a good thing in running that suit -- but their strategy was poor: they should have had at least three other cases in three other places, all at once. If three or four judges had all ruled it unconstitutional...
I guess they were just being conservative.

Actually the Progressives (capital-P) of the early 20th century are responsible for two of those three, among many others including better working conditions especially after the Triangle shirtwaist factory tragedy in 1911.

And progressives today are fulfilling that same role by pushing for gay rights today.

So it isn't entirely useless.

Though even our progressives seem rather conservative on pushing for gay rights. Why wasn't HRC pushing a court suit? I'd say progressives fall too deeply into a near-worship of democracy. Anyone fighting for human rights should be republican.

 

[bankside]

Ah, there's the trouble: if it represents 'progress', progressives claim it. Which is why I forebore from mentioning anything at all: if it was 'progress', then it would be claimed.

At that point it becomes a useless label.

I see your point: it is like calling them "Improvementists." If it was an Improvement, we did it.™

Except it was and is a discernible current in public discourse, and there were discernible alternatives. Now they brand themselves as "tea-baggers" but they used to be called "Know Nothings." The thing is there is an unbroken thread between those who did want to improve things a couple of centuries ago and today's liberals and progressives. And sadly the likes of Glen Beck also has its direct antecedents. It's not just marketing.

Plus ça change....

 

[Edward Twinkletoes]

And sadly the likes of Glen Beck also has its direct antecedents. It's not just marketing.

Beck is a phony. How do I know? He's not angry enough.

 

[Jack Springer]

What is a progressive? a traveler