What Is Hillary's Position on NAFTA Today?

[rotary]

I'm going to be kind. Rotary, I can see you're only 22 years old; youth is the province of idealism. Sadly, a lot of idealistic ideas just don't work in a practical world.

NAFTA has been a travesty for the Mexicans.

What actually happened was that a lot of Mexican companies couldn't compete, and went out of business. This brought about a domino effect, and it wasn't too long after NAFTA was signed that Mexicans crossed over the border, illegally, en masse.

The mass exodus didn't happen until after NAFTA was signed., and now we have 12 million illegal immigrants.

Don't speak to me as if I'm a clueless child. You demonstrate a lack of substance and argument when preferring
to attack someone's age rather than their insight.

Getting back to the actual discussion, NAFTA has generally been good to Mexico. However it's benefits have been mismanaged. Please go do some research and come back to me with numbers to support your silly claim that it's been nothing but a disaster.

Fact of the matter: In the ten years after NAFTA was signed, Mexico's trade deficit turned into a 40 billion dollar surplus. Two way trade between US and Mexico grew from 80 billion to 230 billion. Mexico's agriculture exports to the US doubled. There have been clear and impressive economic gains for them.

The other side: free trade alone can't improve a country. You need responsible government, something Mexico has been lacking. There wasn't investment in education, innovation and infrastructure, and corruption was rampant. Improper oversight led to a credit crunch. It's the government's responsibility to manage economic upswings and redistribute the benefits to the poor. That didn't happen, and now the Mexican government actually sanctions illegal immigration. I suppose that's also NAFTA's fault eh?

NAFTA isn't perfect but there is absolutely no way a complete withdrawal from it would be beneficial to the US, which is something Clinton implied. If you took the time to read my post, you'd understand that was my entire argument- political posturing to attain votes rather than taking a realistic look at the impact of scrapping free trade on the US economy.

Now, my small and meager 23 year old brain, not nearly as functional and full of invaluable knowledge such as yours, I'm sure, is going to go rest.

 

[JackFTwist]

Don't speak to me as if I'm a clueless child. You demonstrate a lack of substance and argument when preferring
to attack someone's age rather than their insight.

there is something really odd about how the Clinton supports have, for weeks, been disparaging people for reasons of youth

 

[Lostlover]

there is something really odd about how the Clinton supports have, for weeks, been disparaging people for reasons of youth

Exactly. Please redirect them to attack OBAMA's POLICIES not because he doesn't have his hand over his heart during the anthem or because of what he would do... shit.

A lot of them are stuck in that segregation mentality and think a black person should be in "their" place. Obama is like Hillary policy wise, minus the moodiness, the bitchiness and all the baggage. It's just a shock for them to vote for someone that would have been hosed down for eating at the same place as them when they were younger.

They're lashing at anybody for anything. And they chose Rotary's age. Next it will be his nationality.

They're completely unhinged.

 

[iman]

I hate to intrude with a little reality, but NAFTA has been a huge success for North America and Mexico and neither candidate will do anything about it. They are both pandering to voters in Ohio.

 

[Kurn]

A lot of them are stuck in that segregation mentality and think a black person should be in "their" place. Obama is like Hillary policy wise, minus the moodiness, the bitchiness and all the baggage. It's just a shock for them to vote for someone that would have been hosed down for eating at the same place as them when they were younger.

Colin Powell would not at all be out of place in the Oval Office. Obama is somewhat out of place there. He is more of a risk at a dangerous time.
Same for Bill Richardson as for Colin Powell.

 

[Sammie13]

Personally, I, too, was for NAFTA before I was against it.

Seemed like a good idea in the '90's when ex-presidents of both parties campaigned for Clinton and said this was a great thing to do. And it has been for some folks.


I heard David Gergen, whom I respected tremendously, about 4 nights ago on AC360 say that he vividly recalled conversations in the W.H. where Hillary tried to talk Bill out of NAFTA. Gergen said Hillary was opposed to her hubby going along with the Repubs.

 

[Kulindahr]

The only changes that need to be made to NAFTA would be to require that vehicles transporting from one country into another meet the safety and other standards of the destination country, and continue eliminating remaining barriers.

As to the claim that only corporations have gained any benefit, all I can say is "nonsense". Small businesses in Oregon and Washington now do business selling to Canada on a large scale; I'm sure that's true across the country.

 

[Kulindahr]

Let me give you an example of how ideology can create catastrophe. The free trade people, in general, are also advocates of laissez-faire economics, i.e., let the free market take care of itself, with no government intervention, and we'll all come out winners.

Here's what happened in real life. Let's look at the mortgage situation. Because the mortgage lenders are almost unregulated, the predators got their finger in the pie. People who'd never ordinarily be even considered for a loan were granted usurious loans that they could neither understand nor afford.

A couple of years down the road, the foreclosures started; they've never stopped, and there seems to be no quick end to it. In Cleveland, there are 5000 homeless people; 15000 homes are under foreclosure, yes, that's right, 15000 homes. It's a grave problem, if not yet a catastrophe.

This has caused a domino effect, and our economy, because of the credit crunch, is in terrible condition. Apropos this, I saw on the news yesterday that a full 25% of car owners are in danger of repossession because they cannot pay their car loans.

This is what you get when you have idealism, Rotary. A seemingly good idealistic idea--laissez-faire economics in the credit industry--turns into a practical catastrophe.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but we had this crisis because buyers assumed that everything must be okay, because the government was making sure the game was played fair, right?
Lenders and borrowers both operate on the assumption that government will bail them out, so they take risks they never would have otherwise. People have grown up expecting the government to take care of them, so they don't check things out the way they should.

Laissez-faire economics assumes people are looking out for their own best interests, and works effectively when they do so in an educated manner.

 

[iman]

Associated Press - February 27, 2008 6:44 PM ET
MEXICO CITY (AP) - Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez says NAFTA has been a boon for the United States, Mexico and Canada.
But Gutierrez says the three countries should help small Mexican farmers who've suffered from the pact.
Gutierrez was in Mexico City for a conference on strengthening Mexico's transportation, energy and environmental infrastructure.
The North American Free Trade Agreement went into effect in 1994. It contained a provision letting Mexico levy protective farm tariffs temporarily while upgrading its agricultural industry.
That phase-in period ended January 1st, and Mexican farms - mostly tiny plots of 12 acres or less - still lag.

The other problem that Mexico is having is that while trade and foreign investment have soared, it has become a reassembly location where parts are shipped in, reassembled and shipped out again, that has resulted in lower wages for Mexicans and increased emigration. That is a problem that needs to be addressed.

 

[snapcat]

I hate to intrude with a little reality, but NAFTA has been a huge success for North America and Mexico and neither candidate will do anything about it. They are both pandering to voters in Ohio.

That would explain why Hillary is so wildly popular at the call centers in India.

 

[cityboy-stl]

Edit. Forget it. It's hopeless to argue this.

 

[snapcat]

I wonder how vigorously she tried to talk Bill out of NAFTA?

Just how far does one have to suspend their disbelief to volunteer for Hillary?

 

[MystikWizard]

Oh, where oh, where is Lancelva... he could tell us!

I'm sure he's been laid off by now and is too embarrassed to come on here and admit it. Haven't seen him in over a week. Plus, he knows he's wasting his time on here and nobody is buying his spin anymore. He's done more harm to the Clinton Campaign than good on this Forum.

 

[Lostlover]

What is Hillary's position on NAFTA today?... depends where in the cuntry she is campaigning in.

 

[snapcat]

I think she's stilll in Ohio, today, so she must be against it today. That might change when she flies to Texas, though.

How soon before we outsource her?

 

[MystikWizard]

What is Hillary's position on NAFTA today?... depends where in the cuntry she is campaigning in.

A simple typo I'm sure. Mistakes happen when you are typing too fast. It's all good.