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What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

rareboy said:
Some things can't be overturned.

And the rights and protection of marriage would be one of them.

It is one thing to withhold a right from people....another thing to strip them of these rights they have been granted by the Supreme Court. Likewise, why Citizens United and Roe v. Wade will never be overturned.

Even the most conservative court knows that this could never happen, because it would be open season on all equal rights.
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Absolutely NOT true.

The Roberts court has already repealed the Voting Rights Act, to once again allow discrimination against black people. It has given corporations the right to discriminate against employees on the basis of the corporation's religious beliefs. The chief justice himself believes Obergefell was a huge mistake by the court. His dissenting opinion is among the most bigoted anti-gay hate speech you will read.

Obergefell was 5-4. A single vote would have resulted in the polar opposite situation. The next president may appoint as many as 4 supreme court judges (the most since Nixon). EVERY Republican candidate for president opposes gay marriage, and has pledged to appoint SC judges who would nullify Obergefell. Every last one of them. Another justice like Roberts, and gay marriage in the USA is done.

The thing you have to understand about anti-gay bigots is that they talk to God. God tells them that He has personally chosen them from the 7 billion people on earth to lead His attack on gay marriage. This makes their position nonnegotiable, their determination absolute, and their behavior not subject to human law. In short, these people are religious zealots who believe they cannot ever stop trying to find ways to end gay marriage.
 
If Obergefell were reversed, then the outcry would be expressed in how quickly most states would rush to undo their constitutions.
 
T-Rexx said:
Absolutely NOT true.

The Roberts court has already repealed the Voting Rights Act, to once again allow discrimination against black people. It has given corporations the right to discriminate against employees on the basis of the corporation's religious beliefs. The chief justice himself believes Obergefell was a huge mistake by the court. His dissenting opinion is among the most bigoted anti-gay hate speech you will read.

Obergefell was 5-4. A single vote would have resulted in the polar opposite situation. The next president may appoint as many as 4 supreme court judges (the most since Nixon). EVERY Republican candidate for president opposes gay marriage, and has pledged to appoint SC judges who would nullify Obergefell. Every last one of them. Another justice like Roberts, and gay marriage in the USA is done.

The thing you have to understand about anti-gay bigots is that they talk to God. God tells them that He has personally chosen them from the 7 billion people on earth to lead His attack on gay marriage. This makes their position nonnegotiable, their determination absolute, and their behavior not subject to human law. In short, these people are religious zealots who believe they cannot ever stop trying to find ways to end gay marriage.
Click to expand...

I understand that the fundamentalists talk to God.

But the Voting Rights Act is not the same as marriage. It covered a class of people in the most general way, but has no impact whatsoever on the legal foundations of their daily lives.

And giving corporations the right to discriminate on the basis of religious beliefs did not strip people of rights in any way equal to marriage.

For the Supreme Court to overturn thousands of legal marriages in the Us would not only create chaos, it would create a crisis so profound with respect to the soundness of any marriage partnership as to destroy the underpinnings of marriage itself...opening the door again to another court undoing Loving v. Virginia.

The fact is, after another few years of equal marriage across the US, it just simply isn't going to be the wedge issue or attract the interest of people any more. The vast majority of States, having found no compelling social reason to undo the bonds of marriage...particularly as the entire western world has moved to adopt it....would push back.

But I remind all of the Democrats once again. This election is all about the Supreme Court. Vote for the devil if you have to, but for fuck's sakes, stop with the Bernie or Die nonsense. Accept that the President will come and go...but that the Supreme Court will really define the direction that the US takes for the next 50 years.
 
Alnitak said:
If Obergefell were reversed, then the outcry would be expressed in how quickly most states would rush to undo their constitutions.
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I doubt it. Those states which had allowed gay marriage prior to Obergefell would allow it again. Those which did not would enforce their constitutional amendments against same sex marriage (none of which, to my knowledge, have actually been repealed).


rareboy said:
But the Voting Rights Act is not the same as marriage. It covered a class of people in the most general way, but has no impact whatsoever on the legal foundations of their daily lives.
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The reversal of the VRA is a withdrawl of rights previously granted to a minority by the court. So far as I am aware, this was the first time in history that the court acted to withdraw rights it had previously granted to a group.


rareboy said:
And giving corporations the right to discriminate on the basis of religious beliefs did not strip people of rights in any way equal to marriage.
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Of course it did. It created a special class of people ("closely held corporations") with a special right to opt out of any law they don't like on the basis of their religious beliefs. (That's not hyperbole- that's what RBG stated in her dissent).

The primary thing that religious people object to is the existence of homosexuality. Corporations now have license to deny married same sex people employment, family benefits, housing, and a host of other advantages.

The court, once again, opened doors to discrimination which will undoubtedly be used to attack and discourage gay marriage. It is another example of the Roberts court rolling back rights for Americans.


rareboy said:
For the Supreme Court to overturn thousands of legal marriages in the Us would not only create chaos, it would create a crisis so profound with respect to the soundness of any marriage partnership as to destroy the underpinnings of marriage itself...opening the door again to another court undoing Loving v. Virginia.
Click to expand...

The crisis would exist only for married gay couples, not straights.

And that would entirely be the point.


rareboy said:
The fact is, after another few years of equal marriage across the US, it just simply isn't going to be the wedge issue or attract the interest of people any more. The vast majority of States, having found no compelling social reason to undo the bonds of marriage...particularly as the entire western world has moved to adopt it....would push back.
Click to expand...

Marriage equality will eventually become a norm so obvious that people will wonder that it was ever denied. But that will take a couple of generations.
 
This is all quite fascinating... but I'd like to know... does anyone here who is speculating have any legal training or background?
 
Jacquemar said:
This is all quite fascinating... but I'd like to know... does anyone here who is speculating have any legal training or background?
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I hold a BS in Legal Studies from UMUC, and four years of paralegal experience.

We all have been following the legal process behind innumerable bills and lawsuits across the US for many years.
 
T-Rexx said:
I doubt it. Those states which had allowed gay marriage prior to Obergefell would allow it again. Those which did not would enforce their constitutional amendments against same sex marriage (none of which, to my knowledge, have actually been repealed).
Click to expand...

Government does not have a say in initiated constitutional amendment states and we carry the opinion in 32 states as of various polls dating back to 2014, so likely more as of this writing.
 
Jacquemar said:
This is all quite fascinating... but I'd like to know... does anyone here who is I have seen "Judge speculating have any legal training or background?
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I have seen "Judge Judy" once or twice (but not voluntarily, of course).
 
Alnitak said:
Government does not have a say in initiated constitutional amendment states and we carry the opinion in 32 states as of various polls dating back to 2014, so likely more as of this writing.
Click to expand...

My impression is that support for gay marriage had plateaued prior to Obergefell and that very few (if any) more states would be allowing gay marriage for quite some time. I know that in my state, Ohio, polls showed gay marriage to be a nonstarter. Moreover, that opinion had been stagnant in the state for several years, unchanged despite considerable progress elsewhere.

One of the great benefits of Obergefell is that it will make gay marriage familiar and less frightening to people. In another generation or two, gay marriage will be routine enough in the minds of people that we will not have to worry about our rights being repealed. Somewhat related to this, I suspect that if SCOTUS had not found for the Lovings in Loving v. Virginia in 1967 that there would be anti-miscegenation laws in some states still. And that was 50 years ago. But, by striking down anti-miscegenation laws then, the court has made that thinking so routine that not even southern states today would go back to miscegenation.
 
rareboy said:
I understand that the fundamentalists talk to God.

But the Voting Rights Act is not the same as marriage. It covered a class of people in the most general way, but has no impact whatsoever on the legal foundations of their daily lives.

And giving corporations the right to discriminate on the basis of religious beliefs did not strip people of rights in any way equal to marriage.

For the Supreme Court to overturn thousands of legal marriages in the Us would not only create chaos, it would create a crisis so profound with respect to the soundness of any marriage partnership as to destroy the underpinnings of marriage itself...opening the door again to another court undoing Loving v. Virginia.

The fact is, after another few years of equal marriage across the US, it just simply isn't going to be the wedge issue or attract the interest of people any more. The vast majority of States, having found no compelling social reason to undo the bonds of marriage...particularly as the entire western world has moved to adopt it....would push back.

But I remind all of the Democrats once again. This election is all about the Supreme Court. Vote for the devil if you have to, but for fuck's sakes, stop with the Bernie or Die nonsense. Accept that the President will come and go...but that the Supreme Court will really define the direction that the US takes for the next 50 years.
Click to expand...

Given the pledges from candidates on both sides, no matter which party gets the White House the American people are screwed.
 
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