What is the point of the tea party?

[NineOfClubs]

I think much of it is about average people objecting to decisions made in Washington, D.C..

Decisions they feel should be made in their own separate states or in local jurisdictions.

It's about decentralizing government. Which is in total opposition to Obama and his henchmen...

 

[sabot3ur]

well a big chunk just like to take off work to protest people "mooching" or "too lazy to work," and bitch about how hard working they are without taking handouts. while my boyfriend, who got dropped from his insurance and subsequently the kidney donor list years ago works across the street. they hope that health care reform etc. fails so they can be right. I can respect a person's opinion but the doom and gloom mentality doesn't help anything, especially when the most ignorant of the movement seem to be the most vocal. If the wellbeing of this country is what's really on their minds, why don't they spend their time doing more constructive things and getting their hateful yelling asses out of my way when I'm driving to school?

 

[NickCole]

they hope that health care reform etc. fails so they can be right.

It's always suspect when someone claims to know that others hope is for failure. Not always wrong but definitely suspect.

I can respect a person's opinion but the doom and gloom mentality doesn't help anything,

Neither does lying or false promises or pretending something is one thing when in truth it's another.

If the wellbeing of this country is what's really on their minds, why don't they spend their time doing more constructive things and getting their hateful yelling asses out of my way when I'm driving to school?

Funny how nothing changes.

I remember the exact same thing being snarled at me and my fellow protesters when we agitated for an end to the Viet Nam war and gay rights and AIDS funding. Those who have the gumption to protest the status quo and speak out for what they believe in will always be accused of being in the way of those driving into more of the same.

 

[palemale]

Many of them are unemployed, so it's something for them to do and something for them to spend their (socialist) unemployment checks on while they protest against socialism.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

How do you know this? The CBS/NYT poll suggests they are actually more educated and more affluent than the average American.

Yeah, I call bullshit on that one. One look at the signs and it's pretty clear we're not dealing with many college grads.

I have a feeling that the people who did that poll were sent into the mob and told to "find the smart ones and poll them... make sure to get as many darkies as you can find and stay away from the bitchy old people."

 

[Zu-Mendel]

I'm curious how long the diametrically opposed people will stay united by their anger once the pendulum inevitably swings to the right. I find it amazing how young anarcho-capitalists can stand side by side with the elderly who get feisty with anybody who dares affect their medicare.

Let's imagine a total GOP sweep by 2012, what changes? The middle class will continue getting fucked over, Wall Street will continue owning government, Medicare and SS will continue being insolvent in a scant few decades, the national debt will still never come down, and government will remain hopelessly gridlocked.

I'm sorry to be so negative about this, but change will never come to our modern society from within, the Tea Party is a perfect example of that. Back in 07 they started as a loose coalition of Libertarians enraged over government spending of all kind. Now they are a wholly owned subsidiary of the GOP who are only opposed to the Democrats government spending. These people are not independent, they are going to vote for rank-and-file establishment Republicans who will simply continue the expansion of government. Every new idea or movement eventually gets bought and bankrolled into one side or the other.

I'm slowly getting to the point where I hopelessly wish I could just walk away from all of this bullshit, and not care about it any more. Ignorance truly is bliss.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

Yet another example of someone expressing an opinion (a "feeling") without facts to justify them.

Which is why I opened with "I call bullshit on that one."

I do not and WILL not believe that the tea baggers are "rich and smart and all ages and races" when all you need to do is turn on the Fox News coverage and see that it's a bunch of old, fat, white middle Americans in stretch pants holding signs about "Socalism" (sic) and accusing people of being "Morans." (sic)

 

[Lostlover]

Which is why I opened with "I call bullshit on that one."

I do not and WILL not believe that the tea baggers are "rich and smart and all ages and races" when all you need to do is turn on the Fox News coverage and see that it's a bunch of old, fat, white middle Americans in stretch pants holding signs about "Socalism" (sic) and accusing people of being "Morans." (sic)

[Text: Removed by Moderator]

I'm not either going to pretend that they're anything that they're not. They're not diverse. As James on here would say, "they're about as white and bland as Pat Boone".

Don't forget, these teabaggers support a party that's vice president two years ago said that deficits don't matter".

Screw these losers' bullshit.

 

[NickCole]

My strong guess is that you would agree that this is with some Obama supporters and not all Obama supporters.

Not all but more than some. Most.

I've noticed from early in the Primaries, and validated with longer examination since then, that an inordinate number of those who support Obama (distinquished from those who support progressive policies while solidly criticizing decidedly non-progressive policies) default to playing the race card when there is slim to no actual evidence that race is involved.

It's led me to re-evaluate the whole race dynamic in America, and to realize it's far more complicated than I, as a life-long Democrat, had believed, figuring out who's exaserbating and exploiting the problem and who's helping to solve it.

 

[palemale]

This is an example of throwing out a claim that has little merit or base in reality.

Really, corecore, you sure about that? http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/us/politics/28teaparty.html

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

What matters to me is if their primary message (excessive government spending, etc) has truth to it.

Well and there's another issue. None of them seem to really be able to agree on what they're on about.

There sure does't seem to be much sense coming out of any of those flash mobs. I just see lots of generic "down with everything" protesting with no real message other than "we don't like that scary dark immigrant in the white house."

 

[palemale]

Yes, I am. We're talking about a nationwide phone poll that surveyed 1,580 people, mostly Tea Party advocates.

In regards to articles, I don't discredit that there can be truth within articles. But, as we can see with the article you posted, they can give a very limited perspective by solely reporting on very small number of people. 1,580 people with the same questions vs. a few people that the author interviewed? A big difference between these two things.

The poll:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ea-party-poll-graphic.html?ref=politics#tab=9

I still don't see the big deal about this poll. What does it really matter? Do we look at the income levels and education of the LGBT community to determine if the primary message of EQUAL RIGHTS is valid? With the Tea Party, do they have credibility in their primary message about GOVERNMENT SPENDING being out of control? Again, let's ignore the "crazies" in both groups. And, let's ignore a poll that has nothing to do with the primary message.

In a poll, anyone can say they're a tea party supporter. They're a different demographic then the people who show up at rallies, spit on congressmen and yell racist and homophobic insults. Well to do, better educated, employed white people have always opposed "taxes" and "big government," as if those things had nothing to do with their prosperity. Their traditional views now are aligned with the crazies who show up at the tea party rallies.

 

[palemale]

There seems to be a big difference between the tea party activists who go to the demonstrations and organize meetings, etc, and those who claim to be supporters. I suspect that each group has very different motivations.

Much of the planning, organization and funding of the tea party comes from Dick Armey and his group. Their interest is to thwart Obama's agenda, defeat Democrats and restore conservative, Republican rule in order to best serve corporate interests. When corporations prosper, their lackeys prosper. Of course middle class, working class and poor people get screwed.

Well educated, employed conservative white people don't want to pay taxes. Unemployed, underemployed, older less educated whites are scared shitless because the rug has been pulled out from under them, and they are right to be scared. Unfortunately, too many of them retreat to conservative positions, which have not served their interests well at all historically.

 

[NickCole]

Their interest is to thwart Obama's agenda, defeat Democrats and restore conservative, Republican rule in order to best serve corporate interests. When corporations prosper, their lackeys prosper. Of course middle class, working class and poor people get screwed.

Well that reveals a lot.

Bank bailouts, AIG bailout, health care bill that delivers tens of millions of new customers to Pharma and Big Insurance without cost controls or repeal of antitrust exemption, sixteen months and still no substantive banking regulations, amped up war for the military industrial complex, etc etc etc.

Yeah sure Obama's agenda isn't serving corporate interests at least as much as Bush & Co did.

Bushies to the right of us, Obamabots to the left, and I wonder how long the folks in the middle will keep being fooled.

 

[Joshua_me]

I'm curious how long the diametrically opposed people will stay united by their anger once the pendulum inevitably swings to the right. I find it amazing how young anarcho-capitalists can stand side by side with the elderly who get feisty with anybody who dares affect their medicare.

Let's imagine a total GOP sweep by 2012, what changes? The middle class will continue getting fucked over, Wall Street will continue owning government, Medicare and SS will continue being insolvent in a scant few decades, the national debt will still never come down, and government will remain hopelessly gridlocked.

I'm sorry to be so negative about this, but change will never come to our modern society from within, the Tea Party is a perfect example of that. Back in 07 they started as a loose coalition of Libertarians enraged over government spending of all kind. Now they are a wholly owned subsidiary of the GOP who are only opposed to the Democrats government spending. These people are not independent, they are going to vote for rank-and-file establishment Republicans who will simply continue the expansion of government. Every new idea or movement eventually gets bought and bankrolled into one side or the other.

I'm slowly getting to the point where I hopelessly wish I could just walk away from all of this bullshit, and not care about it any more. Ignorance truly is bliss.

^ Excellent post, and all too true...

 

[NickCole]

^ Excellent post, and all too true...

Hmmm. Weird. In post 29 of this same thread you said, "^That's^ *exactly* what it is..... " that it was about a black man becoming President.

 

[Centexfarmer]

I'm curious how long the diametrically opposed people will stay united by their anger once the pendulum inevitably swings to the right. I find it amazing how young anarcho-capitalists can stand side by side with the elderly who get feisty with anybody who dares affect their medicare.

Let's imagine a total GOP sweep by 2012, what changes? The middle class will continue getting fucked over, Wall Street will continue owning government, Medicare and SS will continue being insolvent in a scant few decades, the national debt will still never come down, and government will remain hopelessly gridlocked.

I'm sorry to be so negative about this, but change will never come to our modern society from within, the Tea Party is a perfect example of that. Back in 07 they started as a loose coalition of Libertarians enraged over government spending of all kind. Now they are a wholly owned subsidiary of the GOP who are only opposed to the Democrats government spending. These people are not independent, they are going to vote for rank-and-file establishment Republicans who will simply continue the expansion of government. Every new idea or movement eventually gets bought and bankrolled into one side or the other.

For some reason I've been having a hard time articulating my feelings about the Tea Party "movement."

You pretty much summed it up for me.

Thank you.

I'm slowly getting to the point where I hopelessly wish I could just walk away from all of this bullshit, and not care about it any more. Ignorance truly is bliss.

Me too.

But if we do they do, those groups that we feel most closely connected to lose too.

I'm pissed that the Tea Partiers have, thus far, allowed their message to be usurped by the win an any cost social conservative wing of the GOP.

The same party that allowed the highest build up of national debt, and the largest growth of Government under Bush43 than ANY President since the Birth of our Constitutional Nation!

Here's the recent CBS Poll breakdown:

Source: Poll: Tea Party Activists Small But Passionate Group

The last six answers to this poll are the most telling. IMO.

 

[NickCole]

I'm pissed that the Tea Partiers have, thus far, allowed their message to be usurped by the win an any cost social conservative wing of the GOP.

The same party that allowed the highest build up of national debt, and the largest growth of Government under Bush43 than ANY President since the Birth of our Constitutional Nation!

Maybe they'd be on our side if Obama weren't even worse than Bush re: highest buildup of naitonal debt and largest growth of government than any President. If ObamaCare were genuine health care reform instead of a directive for more middle-class money being handed over to Pharma and Big Insurance, if it brought health care costs under control and made things like reimportation of drugs legal, it'd be a different story.

Tea Partiers are justifiably sick of being ripped off, and since Dems are the ones in total power for the past sixteen months and counting, and it's getting worse not better, Tea Partiers are going to align with opposition to Dems. Thank Obama for that, Obama and the ObamaDems who defend his pro-corporate-screw-the-middle-class actions.

Being mad at or ridiculing Tea Partiers is what ObamaCo wants because it distracts from their own abuse of Dem power.

 

[Centexfarmer]

Maybe they'd be on our side if Obama weren't even worse than Bush re: highest buildup of naitonal debt and largest growth of government than any President. If ObamaCare were genuine health care reform instead of a directive for more middle-class money being handed over to Pharma and Big Insurance, if it brought health care costs under control and made things like reimportation of drugs legal, it'd be a different story.

Tea Partiers are justifiably sick of being ripped off, and since Dems are the ones in total power for the past sixteen months and counting, and it's getting worse not better, Tea Partiers are going to align with opposition to Dems. Thank Obama for that, Obama and the ObamaDems who defend his pro-corporate-screw-the-middle-class actions.

Being mad at or ridiculing Tea Partiers is what ObamaCo wants because it distracts from their own abuse of Dem power.

Yeah, you're right Nick.

And what are any of them offering as an alternative?

It's becoming clear to me that we're now living under a class/caste system of Government.

Except instead of a single "King" we have Corporations appointing our "Nobles" through a single two party system.

The Democrats and the Republicans get to choose among their party faithful who'll get to "join the nobility" by funneling campaign contributions toward their elections, so that they won't have to live under the same laws, rules and regulations, and healthcare that us serbs have to abide by.

While those same corporations have bought and paid for our "media," the 1st Amendment Freedom of Speach Media, that use to be the defacto fourth branch of our Government; the Fourth Pillar.

Now they're nothing more than court jesters, the mouth pieces that provide the electorate with the distracting "circuses and bread" which have always been the hallmark, and the precursor to the fall of every great Republic since the Fall of Rome.

We're not even United as to what a "True American" is anymore.

What is the point of the tea party?

To illustrate, even within its very existence and makeup, a "house divided."

Which is exactly where the powers that be want us.

So long as we're divided we'll never completely be united in defeating our own destruction.

What's the phrase?

"We have met the enemy, and he is us" ~Walt Kelly

 

[palemale]

Maybe they'd be on our side if Obama weren't even worse than Bush re: highest buildup of naitonal debt and largest growth of government than any President. If ObamaCare were genuine health care reform instead of a directive for more middle-class money being handed over to Pharma and Big Insurance, if it brought health care costs under control and made things like reimportation of drugs legal, it'd be a different story.

Tea Partiers are justifiably sick of being ripped off, and since Dems are the ones in total power for the past sixteen months and counting, and it's getting worse not better, Tea Partiers are going to align with opposition to Dems. Thank Obama for that, Obama and the ObamaDems who defend his pro-corporate-screw-the-middle-class actions.

Being mad at or ridiculing Tea Partiers is what ObamaCo wants because it distracts from their own abuse of Dem power.

There's a problem with your analysis, Nick. It has no basis in reality. The Tea Party protests began in February 2009, less than a month after Obama was inaugurated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_protests

The health care reform legislation got progressively worse as conservative Democrats, fearful of the increasing tea party protests, began to oppose the Public Option more vigorously and in great numbers as the tea party movement's opposition became more vociferous. The tea party was largely funded and organized by Dick Armey's group. Do you really think Dick Armey was going to be on our side? What exactly do you consider "our side" and what do you think "our side" supports that would also have garnered the support of the people supporting the tea party movement?

The fact is that the tea party supporters are reactionary. They oppose Health Care Reform in all of its guises, whether it was single-payer, public option, expanded medicare and medicaid. Those are the facts. The tea party movement opposed Obama before he pushed through any legislation that added a dime to the national debt. That is a fact.

If you think the people backing the tea party movement were going to endorse any progressive legislation, you are delusional.