What moments in gay culture do you think young gay men should know about?

[zombiekiller]

What does that have to do with gay culture or anything about being gay for that matter? Sounds like you yourself don't know what being gay is. Hell, I think a lot of what folks define as being gay culture such as oversexualization where we have companies that literally are taking advantage of this for money like andrew christian is based more on ignorance than actual value.

I notice how young gay guys seem to be ignorant as hell too. Don't think they need to be further led astray for real. That's why the case of hiv and stds are going up. Barebacking is seen as being valued in gay culture.

If anything, I think the AIDS crisis should be a defining moment in gay culture as a message. People act like it's a thing in the past or simply don't care especially now that there's things like Prep and truvada and people thinking it's okay to have unprotected sex with strangers.

Agreed. My bf and I are tired of gay guys that think that sex is all there is to being gay.

 

[star-warrior]

Seth and Horus http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/texts/horus_and_seth.htm More for the fact that such a thing could have been considered part of everyday folklore during the age of the Ancient Egyptians.

Ganymede https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganymede_(mythology)

Alexander the Great and Hephaestion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestion

Medieval Gay marriages http://www.theawl.com/2012/05/sex-and-punishment

Oscar Wilde and Lord Alfred Douglas

E M Forster's Maurice

Another Country http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086904/ about the Cambridge educated spy Guy Burgess

Hanif Kureshi's My Beautiful Launderette

Alan Turing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

Joe Orton's Diaries http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Orton-Diaries-Joe/dp/0413777243 features a host of peoples of the 60's like Kenneth Williams and Brian Epstein.

de Sade's 180 Days in Sodom, although detestable, might also serve as a warning about depravity and excess.

I like JD Salinger's Catcher in the Rye, but perhaps Edmund White's novels are as good in that vein of young personal journies into manhood.

Larry Kramer's Faggots

William S. Burroughs' works. I found some rather bizzare, but of his generation, I liked the beat poetry of Allen Ginsburg.

You folks better read than I can perhaps suggest more greats of literature, world history, and biographies of people who have enlightened the world with their art, science, technology etc.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

ooh dear

anyway

tinku

 

[EddMarkStarr]

When I saw your post JockTalk, I had to turn off my computer and think it over awhile. You see, I'm new here and I'm just starting to make friends at JUB. I don't want to disappoint anyone. I don't think you are going to like my answer to your question.

Look at my avatar, that's me.

I'm 58, a 6'3", 300 lb black man, naked and typing on a computer. I am sexually attracted to men . . . period. That's it, end of story. I like men - all types, I like male companionship - sex not required. I like doing "guy" stuff like sports and cars and sport cars.

I do not now, nor have I ever self-identified as a "gay" man. What is a gay man? What is gay culture? I don't know, I'm just a man.

All the "gay" men I saw as a high school teenager in the 1970's flocked to bars and clubs to either drink themselves to death or drug themselves to death or fuck themselves to death . . . or all three. The men I called friends enjoyed rising early for Saturday morning breakfast, heading over to the Auto Parts store and working on old cars all day swapping jokes, telling stories - generally using cars and trucks as excuses to be in each others company.

Sex was just men blowin' each other. I never saw "ass play" until my first all male porno film. I'm still "ass shy", my interests are more front-side, so to speak. Now I'm beginning to think I may not fit what you younger guys mean when you use the word Gay. My only sexperience with a "gay" man was 1988 and involved going to his favorite club where I spent the entire evening unable to tell the boys from the girls because they all dressed alike.

At my age you'd think I could answer your question, but I'm useless here. I've spent more time getting my accounting degree, working on my career and trying to save my money as I ease into my golden years. As one of the few black males that has survived to middle age, alive and not in prison, I'm embarrassed to admit I don't know how to answer your question. I'm just a man.

 

[jbrown329]

^^ You're only 3yrs older than I am. I'm not really color coordinated. Sorry, my favorite color is blue, not fuchsia, purple or pink. My mode of dress has always been blue jeans. As for 'gay', when I came out, it was a far better choice than queer, faggot or homosexual. Nobody (guys) that I met through my travels knew a damn thing about cars other than where the gas went in. A few lesbians did. I was never into clubbing (much, few times yes).

 

[JockTalk]

For the guys who posted the links and images you got the point I was getting at. For those of you who wrote "You're just a plain guys in jeans," bravo. Now watch the videos I posted! Haha. No, seriously.

I grew up with AIDs so I'm pretty schooled in that. Pre 80s, not so much.

 

[JockTalk]

 

[JockTalk]

Ellen comes out. Fast forward to 4:09. You'll have to watch on youtube:

She lost her show and a lot work for years after this announcement.

 

[evanrick]

The renaissance, hadrian and antonius, etc

 

[eastofeden]

The fight to boycott Florida Orange Juice and Anita Bryant...

Lily Tomlin

Joe D'Allesandro - Andy Warhol

John Waters

Ru Paul

The Village People

Sylvester

 

[kallipolis]

When I saw your post JockTalk, I had to turn off my computer and think it over awhile. You see, I'm new here and I'm just starting to make friends at JUB. I don't want to disappoint anyone. I don't think you are going to like my answer to your question.

Look at my avatar, that's me.

I'm 58, a 6'3", 300 lb black man, naked and typing on a computer. I am sexually attracted to men . . . period. That's it, end of story. I like men - all types, I like male companionship - sex not required. I like doing "guy" stuff like sports and cars and sport cars.

I do not now, nor have I ever self-identified as a "gay" man. What is a gay man? What is gay culture? I don't know, I'm just a man.

All the "gay" men I saw as a high school teenager in the 1970's flocked to bars and clubs to either drink themselves to death or drug themselves to death or fuck themselves to death . . . or all three. The men I called friends enjoyed rising early for Saturday morning breakfast, heading over to the Auto Parts store and working on old cars all day swapping jokes, telling stories - generally using cars and trucks as excuses to be in each others company.

Sex was just men blowin' each other. I never saw "ass play" until my first all male porno film. I'm still "ass shy", my interests are more front-side, so to speak. Now I'm beginning to think I may not fit what you younger guys mean when you use the word Gay. My only sexperience with a "gay" man was 1988 and involved going to his favorite club where I spent the entire evening unable to tell the boys from the girls because they all dressed alike.

At my age you'd think I could answer your question, but I'm useless here. I've spent more time getting my accounting degree, working on my career and trying to save my money as I ease into my golden years. As one of the few black males that has survived to middle age, alive and not in prison, I'm embarrassed to admit I don't know how to answer your question. I'm just a man.

I enjoyed reading this post, for there is room here, for everyone....to express their views...

 

[JockTalk]

Barbra's outfit - OMG! I'm gagging (in a good way of course)!!

And this:

 

[jdcnow]

To the OP.

Yes Madonna's stuff was probably really important in gay culture for a lot of young men.

In the same way that Judy Garland as Dorothy meant so much to so many gay guys who couldn't express themselves or their frustration with having to remain closeted.

But some of the great moments in gay culture?

Staying with Pop culture....

1. An episode of All in the Family in the 70's with the first challenging discussion of homosexuality on TV.

2. Ellen

3. Brokeback Mountain

4. Will and Grace

5. Soap with Billy Crystal as a Gay character.

6. Lance Loud coming out as gay on the first 'reality' show in 1973

7. Paul Lynd on Hollywood Squares

8. Rocky Horror Picture Show

9. La Cage Aux Folles

10. Hairspray

11. Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.

12. Orange is the new Black

13. OZ



There are many more moments....but many of these were important because they either validated the notion for a lot of homos that being homo is not only okay, but something to be celebrated and flaunted......

And don't let nayone tell you that you don't understand what being gay is about.

Everyone is gay in their own way.

Gay storylines in TV shows, like "Brothers And Sisters" and "One Life To Live", amongst others... There as also a short-lived 1-season spinoff of General Hospital on the SoapNet cable channel called, "General Hospital: Night Shift" - there was about a 3 or 4-episode storyline arc guest starring Chad Allen as a patient of the hospital who happens to fall for one of the doctors. Those storylines in all those shows I mention display common, everyday people who happened to be gay. They all show homosexuality, imho, as it should be shown - through the prism of common, everyday people who happen to be gay... The cop who dates the medical student. The patient who falls for the doctor, etc.

Growing up in small-town eastern Texas, I can tell you firsthand, that these were all signs of life for me - that I wasn't alone in the world. That there were common, everyday people like me, who happened to be attracted to their own gender. It was the only sign of life from the outside world, in a heavily Bible-Belt-type region, where homosexuality is still very much vilified, and gay people are still character-assassinated as being some sort of sexual predators.

The above-mentioned storylines didn't show gay people as party-animal caricatures who live and breath fashion, art, culture, and live at the gym by day, and the nightclub or bathhouse by night. They showed these people as real, common people you might meet out in the real world. It showed homosexuality as being very normal and commonplace, and, to me, I think that was very healthy for me to see that.

 

[gaysian85]

Definitely Stonewall and about Matthew Shepard.

 

[CharlieMars]

Meh. Debbie Harry and Donna Summer performed on stage in wedding dresses years before Madonna did in the 1980s. Madonna has rarely done anything first. You can nearly always find an example of someone doing something before she did it. In fact, her "iconic" look in the early to mid-1980s was a rip-off of Dale Bozzio, Debbie Harry, Wendy O. Williams and Nina Hagen. The Like a Virgin album cover is rip-off of a Donna Summer album cover from the 1970s. I don't think there's a single closet belonging to a 1970s diva and old school Hollywood star that Madonna hasn't raided at some point over the last 30 years. It's all mistakenly referred to as her "reinvention". Vogue is a blatant rip-off of the 1989 Malcolm McLaren track Deep in Vogue. I’m not talking about the dance moves (neither invented voguing), but rather the striking similarities between the two songs.

As a gay man, I can't stand her and neither can any of my friends. She's not remotely important to my life as a gay man. I've never bought one of her albums, singles or DVDs and never will. She dumbed down and cheapened the music industry. She marked the turning point when nudity and controversy became just as important as the music. She opened the doors to Katy Perry, Rihanna, Miley Cyrus and Tiffany. She’s never been anything more than a weak singer, an ok dancer and a shit actress. She’s rarely written a song by herself in her entire career. In fact the last time she wrote a track by herself was Gambler in the 1980s. She’s only as good as the writers and producers she surrounds herself with. Kate Bush and Joni Mitchell are light years ahead of Madonna, they write, compose and produce their music by themselves whereas Madonna is at the mercy of other people because she isn’t naturally talented or gifted. She’s spent 30 years jumping on popular bandwagons, trends and fads to sell her music and persona.

When was the last time she did something important and innovative? She hasn’t had a number one single on the US Hot 100 for 15 years and hasn’t had a substantial worldwide hit for over six years. She obviously entertains a lot of people, but all I see is someone who needs scantily clad backing dancers, backing tracks, moving platforms, props and pretty, glittery things to put on a great show. Her tours are big productions because she isn’t talented enough to sing in front of a live band for two hours. She’s a 58-year-old Katy Perry and Britney Spears. I’m not surprised that the European and Australian dates on her upcoming tour are far from sold out. Sorry about the rant, but I'm sick and tired of people acting like this magpie is the be-all and end-all when it comes to women in music.

 

[Latimer]

Gay culture = female pop singers? Wake me when it's over.

 

[TheLoveableLoner]

The reason I thought of this thread is because I feel that gay culture or subculture is something rarely learned from families. There are so many defining moments from political to popular and everything in between. The internet makes our history available but only if one knows to look.

What would you like young gay men to know about and see? For me there are two pivotal videos -- both by Madonna:

and

My youth and coming of age was after Stonewall and really began with this very special entertainer.

FAILa......................

 

[JockTalk]

A lot of this reminds me of the black person who says he doesn't listen to rap music or hip hop so there really is no "black culture." Sure there is but you can't define it in one stroke.

I'm a bit disappointed by SOME of the responses. Our female pop icons have been a BIG part of our culture, like it or not from Bette Midler in the bathhouses to Babs, Judy, Madonna and Gaga. I don't like Gaga but is she an important part of gay culture? Hell, yah.

What I'd hope for were more of those water cooler moments. You know, past performances and such where the next day you gathered around with gay or sympathetic coworkers and exclaimed, "OMG! Did you see Madonna vogue in 18th French aristocracy dress? Amazing!"

 

[JockTalk]

Oh, for the guy who didn't know what a gay man is:

A gay man is a man who wants to suck cock or have his cock sucked by a guy, stick his dick up another guy's pooper or have the same done to him. Am I wrong?

 

[JockTalk]

Before OZ, Midnight Express, 1978. Couldn't find English version: