What moments in gay culture do you think young gay men should know about?

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

not word a gay meens happee color supa pawers or sumthnag or wen plot lands stills workins out a kinks or sumthang make it a la carte or sumthang kind fit in alls thang cause
unless no happee ten at a bugga
_ten befor word gay ya lot a thang a lot a folkees koff _
" anyway"

tinkin endurd

tinku

" ping "
! time fa happee hour !
_tittars_

 

[unloadonme]

Young gay men should know about some old Madonna videos? Seriously?

 

[JockTalk]

young gay men should know about some old madonna videos? Seriously?

absolutely!

 

[otters]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastiane

 

[refujiunderground]

Oh, for the guy who didn't know what a gay man is:

A gay man is a man who wants to suck cock or have his cock sucked by a guy, stick his dick up another guy's pooper or have the same done to him. Am I wrong?

well, thought that a gay man was someone who was attracted to another man sexually and romantically. just because someone is gay doesn't mean that they're into anal sex. in fact, i read not too long ago that most gay men enjoy kissing compared to anal sex. the number of gay men that report to having anal sex is not as much as people think it is.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-10/iu-nsf101811.php

 

[JockTalk]

well, thought that a gay man was someone who was attracted to another man sexually and romantically. just because someone is gay doesn't mean that they're into anal sex. in fact, i read not too long ago that most gay men enjoy kissing compared to anal sex. the number of gay men that report to having anal sex is not as much as people think it is.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-10/iu-nsf101811.php

And oral? Okay, whatever. You just enjoy your kissing, then.

And now back to our regularly scheduled programing. Wasn't the clip from Midnight Express hot???!!!

 

[Brian Smith]

When the people at the New Zealand parliament celebrated the passing of a gay marriage bill by singing an old Maori love song.

I really think that every school child should be shown this, so they know what a nation of good people can do for an obscure, misunderstood little minority if they just try to listen and care. It's just an old song on the face of it, but toward the end, there is so much primal joy. That makes it all worth it, to me.

 

[EddMarkStarr]

Hey JockTalk, thanks for hangin' in there - you've got a lot of us talking, and that's always a good thing.

One of the most talked about TV movies I saw during my high school years was "The Naked Civil Servant" from 1975, starring John Hurt in the role of Quentin Crisp. This is the movie that made John Hurt the most talked about actor that year.

The Naked Civil Servant movie, much like Quentin Crisp himself, was an interesting and sometimes funny look at the life of a man who stood his ground at a time when homosexuality was still a crime.

I hope every member of JUB has the opportunity to see this film in its entirety.

 

[LittleDove]

Walt Whitman (1819 - 1892)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Whitman



Vigil strange I kept on the field one night;
When you my son and my comrade dropt at my side that day,
One look I but gave which your dear eyes return’d with a look I shall never forget,
One touch of your hand to mine O boy, reach’d up as you lay on the ground,
Then onward I sped in the battle, the even-contested battle,
Till late in the night reliev’d to the place at last again I made my way,
Found you in death so cold dear comrade, found your body son of responding kisses, (never again on earth responding,)
Bared your face in the starlight, curious the scene, cool blew the moderate night-wind,
Long there and then in vigil I stood, dimly around me the battle-field spreading,
Vigil wondrous and vigil sweet there in the fragrant silent night,
But not a tear fell, not even a long-drawn sigh, long, long I gazed,
Then on the earth partially reclining sat by your side leaning my chin in my hands,
Passing sweet hours, immortal and mystic hours with you dearest comrade—not a tear, not a word,
Vigil of silence, love and death, vigil for you my son and my soldier,
As onward silently stars aloft, eastward new ones upward stole,
Vigil final for you brave boy, (I could not save you, swift was your death,
I faithfully loved you and cared for you living, I think we shall surely meet again,)
Till at latest lingering of the night, indeed just as the dawn appear’d,
My comrade I wrapt in his blanket, envelop’d well his form,
Folded the blanket well, tucking it carefully over head and carefully under feet,
And there and then and bathed by the rising sun, my son in his grave, in his rude-dug grave I deposited,
Ending my vigil strange with that, vigil of night and battle-field dim,
Vigil for boy of responding kisses, (never again on earth responding,)
Vigil for comrade swiftly slain, vigil I never forget, how as day brighten’d,
I rose from the chill ground and folded my soldier well in his blanket,
And buried him where he fell.

 

[LittleDove]

Gertrude Stein (1874 - 1946)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gertrude_Stein

Sometimes men are kissing. Men are sometimes kissing and sometimes drinking. Men are sometimes kissing one another and sometimes then there are three of them and one of them is talking and two of them are kissing and both of them, both of them who are kissing, are having their eyes large then with there being tears in them.

 

[LittleDove]

Hart Crane (1899 - 1932)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hart_Crane

Above the fresh ruffles of the surf
Bright striped urchins flay each other with sand.
They have contrived a conquest for shell shucks,
And their fingers crumble fragments of baked weed
Gaily digging and scattering.

And in answer to their treble interjections
The sun beats lightning on the waves,
The waves fold thunder on the sand;
And could they hear me I would tell them:

O brilliant kids, frisk with your dog,
Fondle your shells and sticks, bleached
By time and the elements; but there is a line
You must not cross nor ever trust beyond it
Spry cordage of your bodies to caresses
Too lichen-faithful from too wide a breast.
The bottom of the sea is cruel.

 

[jdcnow]

A lot of this reminds me of the black person who says he doesn't listen to rap music or hip hop so there really is no "black culture." Sure there is but you can't define it in one stroke.

I'm a bit disappointed by SOME of the responses. Our female pop icons have been a BIG part of our culture, like it or not from Bette Midler in the bathhouses to Babs, Judy, Madonna and Gaga. I don't like Gaga but is she an important part of gay culture? Hell, yah.

I would like to cross-examine your post, JockTalk. Your post basically speaks right to my own point in my post about caricatures vs everyday people. Without explicitly saying it, your post basically says that you aren't "gay enough" if you don't put people like Midler, Streisand, Judy, and Gaga on a pedestal. What your post fails to realize is that there are millions, perhaps hundreds of millions of gay people on this planet for whom Judy, Gaga, and Madonna have absolutely Zero relevance to their lives as gay people.

It's as if liking dick isn't good enough to qualify one as gay, according to your post. When, really, that's all homosexuality was ever supposed to be about - being attracted to one's own gender. Not about which so-called "pop icons" do you worship. Me, I worship dick. And maybe, tattoos, body hair, and great biceps. But when you mention Streisand or Madonna to me, I'm like, "Um, okay. /shrugs... Did I miss something?" I just don't care. They just don't move the needle for me, they just don't. And that's not something we, as fellow gay people, should have to apologize for, or even have to explain ourselves regarding. Sorry, not sorry.

Your post further equates Madonna, Midler, Gaga, etc., with the same importance and relevance as something like, say, the weather. No matter what walk of life you're from, every man, woman, and child on this planet is personally and directly impacted by weather. "Will the rain party-crash the outdoor concert I wanna go to, this weekend?" "Will dense fog slow down my morning commute in to work?" "Will ice stop the busses from running, making school be cancelled for tomorrow?" "How hot will it be when we go on our picnic date, this afternoon?" You see? - Personal and direct relevance to people's lives. Streisand, Garland, etc., simply aren't on that same level of personal and direct relevance to all gay people. They just aren't.

Young gay men should know about some old Madonna videos? Seriously?

That's kinda what I was thinking.

 

[TheLoveableLoner]

A lot of this reminds me of the black person who says he doesn't listen to rap music or hip hop so there really is no "black culture." Sure there is but you can't define it in one stroke.

I'm a bit disappointed by SOME of the responses. Our female pop icons have been a BIG part of our culture, like it or not from Bette Midler in the bathhouses to Babs, Judy, Madonna and Gaga. I don't like Gaga but is she an important part of gay culture? Hell, yah.

What I'd hope for were more of those water cooler moments. You know, past performances and such where the next day you gathered around with gay or sympathetic coworkers and exclaimed, "OMG! Did you see Madonna vogue in 18th French aristocracy dress? Amazing!"

You did not just compare hip hop and Black culture with straight female pop stars and gay culture. Nope. I didn't just read that.

F A I L

 

[mikemizanin729]

Should young gay men give two fucks about any of this...??? Not really.

Besides almost everyone knows who Madonna is unless you happen to be living under a rock.

 

[mikemizanin729]

If they do not know what happened or what stonewall was they are toast!

Oh they know, but sadly they can't stop hearing about it along with the three movies that's been made.

 

[JockTalk]

I would like to cross-examine your post, JockTalk. Your post basically speaks right to my own point in my post about caricatures vs everyday people. Without explicitly saying it, your post basically says that you aren't "gay enough" if you don't put people like Midler, Streisand, Judy, and Gaga on a pedestal. What your post fails to realize is that there are millions, perhaps hundreds of millions of gay people on this planet for whom Judy, Gaga, and Madonna have absolutely Zero relevance to their lives as gay people.

It's as if liking dick isn't good enough to qualify one as gay, according to your post. When, really, that's all homosexuality was ever supposed to be about - being attracted to one's own gender. Not about which so-called "pop icons" do you worship. Me, I worship dick. And maybe, tattoos, body hair, and great biceps. But when you mention Streisand or Madonna to me, I'm like, "Um, okay. /shrugs... Did I miss something?" I just don't care. They just don't move the needle for me, they just don't. And that's not something we, as fellow gay people, should have to apologize for, or even have to explain ourselves regarding. Sorry, not sorry.

Your post further equates Madonna, Midler, Gaga, etc., with the same importance and relevance as something like, say, the weather. No matter what walk of life you're from, every man, woman, and child on this planet is personally and directly impacted by weather. "Will the rain party-crash the outdoor concert I wanna go to, this weekend?" "Will dense fog slow down my morning commute in to work?" "Will ice stop the busses from running, making school be cancelled for tomorrow?" "How hot will it be when we go on our picnic date, this afternoon?" You see? - Personal and direct relevance to people's lives. Streisand, Garland, etc., simply aren't on that same level of personal and direct relevance to all gay people. They just aren't.

That's kinda what I was thinking.

Nah, you're reading too much into it. This thread is really about those cool, awesome "gay" culture moments I wanted to share and if they don't resonate with you, that's okay. You can post items that do and that's really my whole point.

EddMarkStarr got my point by posting what he did. You see, I NEVER would have known about that movie until I saw his clip and that's awesome and that's what can easily get lost because no one is really passing this stuff along.

I'd hope that the young gays would realize that there is a wealth of (gay) cultural goodies that don't begin in 2000 when they were about 10 years old and could start remembering.

 

[jbrown329]

When I came out (over 30yrs ago) the state that I lived in, had laws making homosexuality illegal. Seriously illegal. Getting caught would get you a $50,000 fine and serious prison (not jail, state prison) time. Also, AIDS was just rearing it's ugly head. The younger generations don't know the amount of homophobia that we faced. Far worse than in today's world.

They didn't lose loved ones and friends to a disease that wasn't understood. One that the President of the United States (Reagan) refused to even mention. Hell, back they they didn't even know how AIDS was transmitted. Healthcare workers would refuse to even touch an AIDS patient.

That's some of what the younger generation should be taught. And to never forget the battles that older generations fought for recognition and dignity. Because without the ones that fought, being gay would still be illegal. We would all still be in the closet. Because being openly gay would more times than not, would get you killed.

I came out in the early 80's. And I thought that same sex marriage would be legal in my lifetime.

 

[bankside]

In the 70's the best a gay man could hope for was "he's a pervert, but an inoffensive pervert."

Someone in the closet on one hand, but with no hope of keeping it a secret, and likeable enough that people could turn the other way and work alongside them or have them over for dinner. Only the uptight would do more than raise an eyebrow and shake their heads.

In pop culture this meant comedic characters. Mr. Humphries played by John Inman in Are You Being Served. Stephen Stucker in the Airplane! film, working in the control tower. Or, in a funny twist, Klinger in M*A*S*H, pretending to be one of these "inoffensive perverts" to get out of the army.

That was the best anyone could hope for according to the standards of the day, but it was a kind of visibility far superior to previous decades with "gay pervert monster" being the main way we were acknowledged in media. That was enough to crack the closet door open.

The 80's were spent dealing with HIV. Or failing to deal with HIV. We've controlled cholera, polio, smallpox, malaria...the list goes on. But HIV was a trickier disease and everybody was fucking it into everyone else without knowing. The great lesson of the 80's for me is that after they knew, they continued fucking it into everyone else. We didn't get ahead of it.

It was also a bleak time to come out. I was old enough in the 80's to have had awareness of my own sexual thoughts, but the older generation was too busy dying, both in their lives, and in every script, in every scene, on every stage, on every camera, in every song, in every aspect of gay pop culture, to offer anything by way of mentorship, security, hope of a normal life. The life of a gay man was about survival at the fringes.

The 90s saw gay men coming in from the cold. In Canada, we started winning legal battle after legal battle. When I started university, I could have been kicked out of my degree program (not likely but legal), or fired from the job I got afterwards. That truly did get better by the end of the 90's, and it moved so fast that by 1997 or 1998 we began to even assume we could take on equal marriage.

The 2000s were the days of "normalising gay." We got marriage. We got legal rights. All through the 90's we had so much increasing clout going alongside our political victories that it felt like the world was going gay, and everybody from community leaders to business people started making plans. But we had been allowed out of the ghetto. And we left it! We got houses in the suburbs. Gay bars and gay activities suffered. Gay business suffered. The expectations were a bit inflated.

Anyway, the 2010s are half over. The world is the next battle ground. Putin needs to go. Half of the African leaders need to go. India is marching backwards. Fuck all of that. And yet we still want to make time to just enjoy the burbs.

 

[alphacentauri]

Stonewall, although this is more about LGBT culture but a lot of younger LGBT people have no idea what happened at Stonewall or what life was like before the Stonewall riots.

How to have safer sex, it seems to me like a lot of gay men who are my age or just a few years younger than me have no idea how to do this.

 

[Latimer]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States

Growing up in a liberal household in a liberal neighborhood, I didn't know that, until relatively recently, even elite opinion (see the Supreme Court's Hardwick decision) could be so hostile to homosexuality. The Wikipedia article on sodomy laws should be required reading. It was a revelation to me.