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What should happen to baby Charlie Gard?

From all that i have read, including an in-depth and detailed study of this child's illness. I have to concur with the decision of the highly qualified specialists at Great Ormond Street. A hospital with a world class reputation in the treatment of rare conditions afflicting children.

I cannot and i will not place any criticism on the parents, they must be going through hell, but at the same time i am pretty certain this has been no easy decision on the part of this child's consultants.
 
I'd just like to reiterate some points that I think may have been overlooked, or that some JUBbers may be unaware of in this discussion:

(1) The parents HAVE the money available from fundraising (nearly £1.5 million i.e. nearly $2.5 million) so no expense need be paid from the British taxpayer, and I suspect that once in America any further costs would in a similar way be privately raised, quite easily.

(2) With the backing of the judiciary, the hospital is, in effect, holding Charlie as a 'possession' in their ownership, and preventing his parents from taking their baby out of the country, thereby removing from them their freedom of choice over the treatment of their own child. Should they have such a right?

(3) Charlie's extremely rare condition may not have rendered him definitively brain dead, only very severely impaired, giving him the remote chance of a possible, but admittedly minimal, improvement. If this possibility exists, then, by reverse, it also means that the same possibility can be taken away from him, and I think that is vitally important.

(4) Speaking strictly in the legal sense, there is an alarming precedent being made here, which can then be applied over every single British citizen if they have the misfortune to be rendered in a similar condition to Charlie, whereby medical officials are given supreme authority to mandate and demand the taking of a human being's life, irrespective of the individual's wishes or that of the next of kin. This is the path towards state-controlled euthanasia, and the judges and the courts and frankly all of us should be very careful before heading down that road because of the potentially horrific consequences that it can lead to.

(5) There is a profound philosophical argument about precisely what a human life is, what it means, and under what circumstances it is deemed permissible to take that life away, and the morality and the ethics behind doing so. Under what authority or guiding principles does that decision take place? For what reasons? Does the prevention of 'suffering' justify the act? How does one quantify this 'suffering'? What level of it makes the intervention to ending a life 'acceptable'? How many lives would be taken before one gave any pause for thought over what is 'right' or 'wrong'? Who has the authority to make the decision over what is 'right' and 'wrong'?

:goodevil:
 
Cormac135 said:
They've made over a million from crowd funding or whatever, God knows how long that'll last in America.
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Not very long. Blink and there won't be a penny left for treatment. Unlike England, et cetera, the usa has been using sites like Gofundme for medical expenses for a while - and for everything. Hop on any of them and you're bound to find pleas for considerably more physically and mentally painful conditions than what the baby himself is experiencing and the great bulk of those people get next to nothing by the way of monetary aid. When the parents put up yet another 'Help Us' page, and then again a week later, and yet again after that? The parents won't receive a damn thing, because people don't like repetition in problems, feels like their money's getting flushed down the john.

To put cost into perspective, a broken foot that needed a bit of metal billed me a bit over $200,000. That was for less than 2 weeks in the hospital and they wanted to keep me longer because I wasn't physically ready to leave despite having to (medical costs and billing, among other things)

It cost that much for a broken footed hospital stay, a million isn't even a drop in the bucket for experimental treatment.
 
Georgiadude said:
I'll admit to being lazy and I haven't read others posts in this thread yet. I do intend to read them. It's 0645 and I'm kinda tired.

I think his parents should be permitted to bring him to the US and let the doctors do their best to use the experimental treatment. We know he's going to die if they do nothing. Why not give the poor little guy a chance. Yes, I'm sure it's expensive but with as much money as the government wastes there has to be some funds they can find and I'm sure if a GoFundMe page were to be set up most if not all of the expenses would be covered. I don't blame the parents for fighting for the life of their child. The doctors and lawyers for the hospital / government have been cruel and talk about the baby as if he were anything but human. This is a child we're talking about and he should be given a chance for life. why are they pushing so hard to remove him from life support? Oh yeh, money. it all comes down to the almighty dollar. Thats the frustrating part for me. Governments blow through money like nothing but this little boy is just too expensive so he should be allowed to die. He deserves a chance and I think many people would donate to help give him that chance.

Steven.
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...how familiar are you with medical cost vs human compassion vs disability itself? It isn't that you don't have a point lurking way down deep in that paragraph about governmental greed & medical access, (though I believe you're outright wrong on whether there's a medical miracle chance for that kid - the House always wins, one way or another) - it's that I think you're wearing one hell of a pair of rose-tinted wraparounds if you think the usa can afford untold millions spent when most haven't health insurance themselves.
 
Georgiadude said:
I'll admit to being lazy and I haven't read others posts in this thread yet. I do intend to read them. It's 0645 and I'm kinda tired.

I think his parents should be permitted to bring him to the US and let the doctors do their best to use the experimental treatment. We know he's going to die if they do nothing. Why not give the poor little guy a chance. Yes, I'm sure it's expensive but with as much money as the government wastes there has to be some funds they can find and I'm sure if a GoFundMe page were to be set up most if not all of the expenses would be covered. I don't blame the parents for fighting for the life of their child. The doctors and lawyers for the hospital / government have been cruel and talk about the baby as if he were anything but human. This is a child we're talking about and he should be given a chance for life. why are they pushing so hard to remove him from life support? Oh yeh, money. it all comes down to the almighty dollar. Thats the frustrating part for me. Governments blow through money like nothing but this little boy is just too expensive so he should be allowed to die. He deserves a chance and I think many people would donate to help give him that chance.

Steven.
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...how familiar are you with medical cost vs human compassion vs disability itself? It isn't that you don't have a point lurking way down deep in that paragraph about governmental greed & medical access, (though I believe you're outright wrong on whether there's a medical miracle chance for that kid - the House always wins, one way or another) - it's that I think you're wearing one hell of a pair of rose-tinted wraparounds if you think the usa's population can afford to donate untold millions for a single individual in the current clime when most haven't health insurance themselves as the pleas never cease or slow.
 
This is a baby, but to take the opposite side of life spectrum, the elderly are given care in their final days and hours. The most important consideration for the elderly and their family is 'quality of life'. You can arguably prolong someone's life artificially for years, if the body doesn't give out first, but with no quality of life, and constant suffering, it would be morally cruel to prolong your relative's life and suffering, just because you can not beare it for them to go. In the case of Charlie Gard, I feel too that quality of life would be the overriding consideration that has lead to the hospital and the opinions of the docts there to have given this heart breaking conclusion.

For his parents, who have made it their mission to prolong the child's life artificially, and to cling to the hope offered by a US doctor, I don't envy their position, but it will make the loss when it comes all the more harder and bitter.

Update: I hear also that there are death threats to the hospital and staff there. That is unacceptable, and I would consider that a form of terrorism.
 
After seeing the latest tests and scan, the American doctor who was willing to do the treatment said Charlie was too far gone and nothing would help now. Go peacefully little boy, you were loved.
 
I don't blame the parents for trying, even when the odds were so high against Charlie. But they have the latest info now and they appear to be at peace now with letting Charlie go. I don't know if after this life there is nothing or something else outside our physical limitations, but I truly hope there is another place where Charlie is at peace himself and happy... where his limitations on Earth can no longer confine him. My thoughts to Charlie and his parents in this difficult time.
 
sixthson said:
After seeing the latest tests and scan, the American doctor who was willing to do the treatment said Charlie was too far gone and nothing would help now. Go peacefully little boy, you were loved.
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Thank goodness this awful situation is drawing to a close
I don't think any of the parties come out of it well
The hospital should never have gone to court. They should have let the parents take the child to America
The parents should have let go of their obviously vegetative child months ago
 
This really was a quite predictable outcome, Great Ormond Street never, never just gives up on a child. After reviewing the latest MRI and other diagnostic data the Dr from the USA has come to the same conclusion as Great Ormond Street.

More importantly, the parents were the ones to withdraw from the legalities surrounding Charlie. They will now spend the next few days at the child's side saying their goodbyes.

This case is not an isolated one, many parents will be finding themselves in the same situation, minus all the press attention. As has already been posted, quality of life is the over-riding factor which must be taking into consideration.
 
I find it disgusting that the government would put up so many roadblocks to prevent parents from trying to help their child. What would it have hurt to allow them to bring the child to the US for care? Why be so hell bent on letting him die? If he's going to die anyway let the parents have the peace of mind in knowing they did everything they could to help their baby. I just think it's disgusting and really not some judges right to tell a parent they need to let their child die. I read some of the comments the lawyers made in front of the parents and it sickened me. Then say "Oh I didn't mean to offend them". Its their child she was referring to. I hope it eats at the lawyers and judges and they have many sleepless nights. My heart and prayers go to Charlie and his family. I hope they find comfort in knowing they did their best. They tried and a bunch of heartless assholes fought them every step of the way.

Steven
 
The government did not put up new road blocks - this is the standard process. If medical professionals decide no more can be done for a person, they can decide not to continue. This can then be appealed by the family in court - as the Gard's have done. Unfortunately for the parents the courts have agreed multiple times with medical professionals that the experimental treatment would not be positive experience for the child (a child already on regular morphine for pain). The experts from the states have also agreed nothing could be done here.

The saddest part of this is the fact we even know, the media and the circus around its helped no one. This should have been done privately.
 
gsdx said:
Will you just mind your own business and stop bringing your crap into this forum, too?
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I read his comment without looking at the author and I agreed with him, which I rarely do. His wording may be a bit blunt, but do you have any logical arguments against his opinion?
 
swerve said:
I'm shocked that there is even debate regarding this life.

It is a no brainer.

OF COURSE the parents should be allowed to decide their child's care.

Also, those of you who mentioned money, make me want to puke.
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So what you are saying is that you'll pay for it? Because you cannot expect us to.
 
Zeno Lorea said:
I read his comment without looking at the author and I agreed with him, which I rarely do. His wording may be a bit blunt, but do you have any logical arguments against his opinion?
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It's not just his opinion. It's that he floods the CE&P forum with it and now he's dragging it into this forum and into this thread where it simply does not belong. If you don't frequent CE&P, you won't understand, but he surely does.
 
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