What to do about North Korea.

[Benvolio]

We seem close to war with North Korea, and whatever Trump does, democrats will say it was wrong. This is your chance before it starts. My guess is that we will simultaneously attack with conventional bombs, electro magnetic pulse and the bunker buster. NK not only has missiles, but a line is massive artillary along the border. We need to knock them all out at once.
China is worrisome. I doubt if it wants war, but it would love to us humiliated, weakening our alliances around the world. Has it given NK weapons that we do not anticipate? It's position seems ambiguous. While claiming to want peace it dies nothing to help us avoid war.

 

[cityboy-stl]

I hope and pray that a U.S. pre-emptive attack on North Korea is the last choice on the table, not the first. We should do everything possible to avoid that even if it means getting some humility and swallowing some pride and actually negotiating and compromising. That is what diplomats are for and what this president is supposed to be good at. If we do everything we can, and after that, if it still comes down to attack or be attacked, then as a democrat I would support military pre-emptive intervention. Not before.

But so far I have not see much effort put forth other than bluster and ultimatums. And that goes for the past several administrations as well as this one.

 

[Stardreamer]

It has to be the last choice, we would really need South Korea and Japan's assistance in such an operation and South Korea knows full and well that we can't silence those missiles and artillery in a single strike no matter how much we throw into it unless we want to use nuclear. Those batteries are pointed at Seoul and Japan. In any military conflict with NK, Seoul will be flattened with massive loss of life. To be clear, SK's military capability surpassed NK's some time ago and they with or without our backing would defeat NK but the cost would be far too high.

 

[frankfrank]

getting some humility and swallowing some pride and actually negotiating and compromising.

I remember when there were some negotiations going on, and NK was warming up to the idea...then the next President got in, and killed it off entirely.

It might have been the Clinton transition to Bush 2nd; OR it might have been George H. W. Bush transitioning to Clinton - I forget which. (George H. W. Bush surely looks good compared to what we have now, doesn't he?)

 

[swerve]

I agree with the OP.

The U.S. HAS TO PROTECT itself.

With Seoul so CLOSE -- I don't expect that things will end well.

I wish it wasn't so -- but; occasionally, my wishes don't come true.

I beg all of our friends from South Korea to preemptively leave (you're welcome here ).

Diplomacy is no longer an option.

 

[cityboy-stl]

Diplomacy is no longer an option.

Sorry but I have to disagree with that. Diplomacy is always an option and there hasn't been much of it. There have been stubborn demands from both sides. We need some give and take from both sides or a least a try at it. We should be the honorable side and offer to start it.

Now if NK refuses everything and is hell bent on nuking someone, we have no option left. But I seriously do not think we have given diplomacy a chance. We have to give something as well as them. We must do everything possible to avoid turning the Korean peninsula and quite possibly parts of the US into a radioactive wasteland. I just think we need try harder.

 

[TX-Beau]

...I beg all of our friends from South Korea to preemptively leave (you're welcome here ).

Diplomacy is no longer an option.

They are not welcome in Trump's America.

- - - Updated - - -

...I beg all of our friends from South Korea to preemptively leave (you're welcome here ).

Diplomacy is no longer an option.

Hell, YOU gay American are not welcome in Trump's America.

 

[swerve]

Sorry but I have to disagree with that. Diplomacy is always an option and there hasn't been much of it.

The problem we've had with "diplomacy" (or lack thereof) is due to China not WANTING a unified Korean peninsula.

That is why they aren't pressuring the NK's.

I really truly hope that I'm wrong -- and there is a non-violent end to this situation. But, I'm not sure what else can be done.

It has been brought to my attention that this would be another "pre-emptive" war -- which, in theory, I'm opposed. So, I'm willing to admit that I may be wrong -- I just don't see any other end game.

 

[TX-Beau]

The problem we've had with "diplomacy" (or lack thereof) is due to China not WANTING a unified Korean peninsula.

That is why they aren't pressuring the NK's.

I really truly hope that I'm wrong -- and there is a non-violent end to this situation. But, I'm not sure what else can be done.

It has been brought to my attention that this would be another "pre-emptive" war -- which, in theory, I'm opposed. So, I'm willing to admit that I may be wrong -- I just don't see any other end game.

I hope you are wrong also, but I suspect that a preemptive war to save Trump's orange posterior is something that would appeal quite favorably to him and all his deplorables.

 

[swerve]

^I'm looking at this more about the U.S. (my country) and less about the "political" fallout. And that is ALWAYS a concern when looking at preemptive war.

Is it really necessary?

From what I know it seems like there isn't another good alternative -- but, I don't know any more than the next guy. Hopefully there is.

 

[TX-Beau]

I don't know enough about Asia to have a useful opinion, but it seems to me that SOMEONE has been aiding and abetting N.K, and if we want to change anything, we need to know who.

 

[swerve]

^I'm pretty sure that it has been Russia and China -- both "profitable" -- but for completely different reasons. China's interest lies in a "split" korean peninsula. Russia is just trying to gain credibility as a world power wherever it can find a toe-hold.

 

[Stardreamer]

I agree with the OP.

The U.S. HAS TO PROTECT itself.

With Seoul so CLOSE -- I don't expect that things will end well.

I wish it wasn't so -- but; occasionally, my wishes don't come true.

I beg all of our friends from South Korea to preemptively leave (you're welcome here ).

Diplomacy is no longer an option.

And how does it serve the US to unilaterally act and basically tell all our allies that they are expendable? S Koreans would not take 'I'm sorry but just leave your home' well. Remember they have lived under this threat all their lives, they are not going to have any sympathy for their US ally who is in a panic just because they suddenly realized the shit got real.

There is no easy military solution to this problem.

 

[Stardreamer]

^I'm pretty sure that it has been Russia and China -- both "profitable" -- but for completely different reasons. China's interest lies in a "split" korean peninsula. Russia is just trying to gain credibility as a world power wherever it can find a toe-hold.

China indeed wants to maintain the 'split' Korean peninsula but they do not want a nuclear armed Korean peninsula particularly when the South and Japan may arm themselves in response.

 

[cityboy-stl]

The problem we've had with "diplomacy" (or lack thereof) is due to China not WANTING a unified Korean peninsula.

That is why they aren't pressuring the NK's.

That's part of it. But we can't just say "Here China, Fix this." What else are we doing? I don't know and I'm in no position to know anything other than what is on the news. But as a U.S. citizen I do not want to see a conflagration either here or there. We need to explore and work every possible alternative before war. I could be wrong too but it just doesn't feel to me like we have.

 

[swerve]

I don't think that I disagree with anyone who has posted here.

I do not WANT war. Diplomacy hasn't worked (some have blamed Trump -- but in reality it has been the last several presidents).

What are the options?

A CIA "Hit"? I'd go along with that -- and that isn't something I would admit to lightly.

I loved Benvolio's concept of an EMP -- but that is reminiscent of science fiction novels -- I'm not even sure that it is a "real" thing. IF it is -- than that would solve the collateral damage scenario.

The world is a lot SMALLER than it used to be -- and the U.S. MUST retain control for the benefit of EVERYONE else. And this FACT doesn't change with our Presidents.

 

[Benvolio]

I don't think that I disagree with anyone who has posted here.

I do not WANT war. Diplomacy hasn't worked (some have blamed Trump -- but in reality it has been the last several presidents).

What are the options?

A CIA "Hit"? I'd go along with that -- and that isn't something I would admit to lightly.

I loved Benvolio's concept of an EMP -- but that is reminiscent of science fiction novels -- I'm not even sure that it is a "real" thing. IF it is -- than that would solve the collateral damage scenario.

The world is a lot SMALLER than it used to be -- and the U.S. MUST retain control for the benefit of EVERYONE else. And this FACT doesn't change with our Presidents.

I don't know haw real the EMP weapon is. It has been talked about for some time and the Russians claim they have one. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/33601...electronic-bomb-in-bizarre-propaganda-report/. If they have one we probably also have it, but whether we can contain its effects not to injure South Korea is another question.

 

[cityboy-stl]

I agree diplomacy has not worked so far and it is the fault of the current and the past several administrations. But that doesn't mean it can't or won't work in the future if we put forth some creative effort and willingness to compromise. We should at least try harder don't you think? Especially now.

But I also understand that may be too idealistic given the particular crop of players both there and here. I definitely don't want a "Munich Agreement" appeasement type situation that makes thing worse down the road. We must remain strong but humble. I don't know the answer but at this time, I'd like to see the U.S. attempt to be the peacemaker before resorting to war.

 

[Stardreamer]

I don't know haw real the EMP weapon is. It has been talked about for some time and the Russians claim they have one. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/33601...electronic-bomb-in-bizarre-propaganda-report/. If they have one we probably also have it, but whether we can contain its effects not to injure South Korea is another question.

EMP weapons can devastate civilian and military infrastructure over vast areas but military structures can be hardened against it and quite frankly some of the NK technologies are so old they might not be that sensitive to it. And I suspect most of their artillery would still be able to function. The damage to the more modern electronics on the Southern forces would probably make the overall cost to be greater than the benefit.

 

[Kulindahr]

It has to be the last choice, we would really need South Korea and Japan's assistance in such an operation and South Korea knows full and well that we can't silence those missiles and artillery in a single strike no matter how much we throw into it unless we want to use nuclear. Those batteries are pointed at Seoul and Japan. In any military conflict with NK, Seoul will be flattened with massive loss of life. To be clear, SK's military capability surpassed NK's some time ago and they with or without our backing would defeat NK but the cost would be far too high.

Given the North Korean propensity for packing their artillery, and given that the location of much of it is either known or can be learned, there is an option that could eliminate well over four-fifths of it in one strike. Militarily it's a fairly simple proposition; the problem is that environmentally it would be catastrophic. The method? A massive fuel-air bomb strike frying the northern side of the border.

Yeah, not gonna happen.

That said, the analyses I've read indicate that Seoul being "flattened" is more northern propaganda than reality. Damage would be massive, and loss of life serious, but the north's artillery is better at awing those watching it than damaging what it shoots at. As for the missiles, conventional warhead ballistics would be turned to scrap/confetti by Phalanx gatlings -- enough so that there's a good chance more damage would be done by broken shreds smashing into buildings and vehicles than by warheads going off.