what's the big deal about healthcare?

[lacrayfish]

Don't want to get involved in the politic, I just don't know why it is such a heated brawl in the US

Universal healthcare has been there in Canada & EU for decades. US citizens pay the most expensive drugs
compared to UK or Canada. Many even shop across the borders to Mexico. So there is something very
wrong about the way insurance & drug companies are gouging people

 

[Corny]

Nobody outside the US understands it

 

[rareboy]

No.

It is impossible to understand.

The Americans have been completely hoodwinked by a corporate kleptocracy into thinking that health care has to be a phenomenally expensive privilege available to only the rich and, apparently the healthy.

It is the most expensive and least effective system in the western world; already supported by the taxpayers who keep all the public servants in costly insurance plans while many of them often go without.....and the consumers who are left to bear the high premiums for insured workers built into every American product and service.

Why do Americans hate themselves so much?

 

[G-Lexington]

The underlying issue is that American society is now, above all else, a capitalist society. Over the last century-plus, we've become a nation concerned almost exclusively with business and finance. If there's money to be made, we'll find a way to make it. It's common to read about an American (or American company) charging $4 for a bottle of water even though most tap water is decent, or charges $5 for a "pet rock" or what have you. And whereas most non-Americans would wonder about the gullibility of the American public, Americans tend to view these stories as "brilliant marketing strategies". Or, to put it another way, "why didn't I think of that?" The great American dream is to "get rich"...but it's been a long time since we've thought that would involve hard work. Now it's finding some sort of brilliant invention or gimmick to get Americans to throw money at you. It may be an iPhone, or it may be 3Oh!3 - it's all the same in the end. And anything that undercuts a person's (or company's) capacity to make a dollar is looked upon very skeptically. In fact, the companies are usually looked upon more favorably than the individuals. "Union" and "socialism" are still pretty much dirty words here, and usually is attached to such words as "communist" and "anti-business". Every step made over the past hundred-plus years towards "workers rights" has resulted in massive outcry from the business sector - "socialism" and "communism" thrown about, predictions of the end of capitalism as we know it. The European debt crisis is seen by Americans pretty simply - "Those guys give everything to their people for free, and now they realize they can't pay for it." "The business of American is business", said Calvin Coolidge, and it's even more so about a hundred years later.

There's a shit-ton of money to be made in the medical field. Not just with medicine but hospitalization and treatment and whatever else. And in fact, that money is being made. And whereas non-Americans may look in horror on the American healthcare system, we tend not to look on it as such. Because, as we see it, these companies develop medicines and create treatments and help keep us healthy, and this being America, should they not be rewarded for this financially? Isn't that what America is all about? To many Americans, talking about nationwide healthcare - or "socialized medicine" - is tantamount to saying "You have a large house, so we'll let two poor people who don't want to work live there with you". It undercuts what America is ostensibly about. "If you want it, pay for it. If you can't pay for it, go work for it. If you can't work for it, see ya."

Lex

 

[TickTockMan]

Nobody outside the US understands it

A lot of us American don't understand it either.

 

[TickTockMan]

They don't want to pay higher taxes.

That's it in a nutshell.

I would think in the long term taxes would go down.

After people get use to going to a GP instead of an ER taxes should go down. Also once the country gets healthier and starts doing more preventive medicine taxes should go down even more. Even better there should be little reason why taxes should go up for health care reasons.

 

[G-Lexington]

I would think in the long term taxes would go down.

and if there's anything Americans are well-known for, it's doing things for long-term benefit.

Lex

 

[blackbeltninja]

On paper, Socialism is wonderful. Until the economy fails. Ask... well, most of Europe.

Here in .za, you can get almost anything you need for pittance at the state-run hospitals. However, the care is poor and slow because the hospitals are under-funded; you might die looooooooooooooooooong before you get the treatment you need. Cost-wise, private healthcare here is a bitch. But it does mean I'm covered for almost anything, and I could go to one of our top-notch private hospitals and get it done tomorrow (well Monday, if it's not an emergency) if I needed it.

Having said that, they do prey on fear. I understand someone should be rewarded financially for their skill - don't get me wrong - but I do think it's hideously overpriced and the guys charge an unnecessarily high fee which is out of reach of 95% of the population. I understand it makes economic sense, but I do wonder how some of them sleep at night.

-d-

 

[PreTTy PeTe]

I dunno whats the big deal?

Lets see I see my family doctor every two months. I have a neurologist, cardiologist and other specialists that I see every six months. Whatever tests they see fit to run on me all I need is my health card and nothing else.

I can go to the ER and I have been a couple of times in the last year and it's all paid.

The only thing that's not covered is my medications but that's taken care of by my insurance. but if you can't afford your meds it you can apply to the trillium health plan in Ontario. If you are on Social Assistance or Disability then all meds are covered.

I think we have a great deal and If I have to pay higher taxes then people in the US that's ok with me.

 

[PreTTy PeTe]

How much do Canadians love the guy who brought them medicare?

 

[HunterM]

For those who live in a country with universal healthcare, does it cover breast implants?

 

[HunterM]

^

 

[lambdaboy]

American now living in London UK with dual citizenship. The only thing people under 60 pay for is prescriptions that are about $11.00 U.S. If they want to go to a dentist there are three levels of payments the highest you would pay for everything is $300 US I will never live in the U.S. Again if for no other reason I would not have any medical coverage at all. Also if I take a trip to Paris Rome any where in the EU, we have a card for minor problems of course we get travel insurance for major probs. The one that do not want it are rich republicans. Lets also remember that the Senate Congress have free medical for life even if thy run for one term and of course they do not care.

 

[evanrick]

There is no big deal about healthcare, its only a big deal now because healthcare reform was passed by Democrats and signed by a Democratic president, Barack Obama.

It wont matter what issue it is, reform against special interests will always be opposed, especially if passed by Democrats, as they are seen as the more liberal political party in America.

So, ill say it again, Americans only think its a big deal because they have been lied to so many times, when something good does happen, they will convince themselves they are being tricked by a "socialist" president or are unworthy of reform that would benefit them because they are not wealthy enough to afford it.

Its stockholm syndrome for Americans who have been conned into believing that everything that happens is to their benefit when its to the benefit of those who are protecting their current monopoly, which is never the American people.

Obama and Democrats won much needed reforms in healthcare, and some of the American public seem to think they should be disciplined for trying to right a wrong, truly astonishing.

 

[anchihiro]

For those who live in a country with universal healthcare, does it cover breast implants?

In the UK people who have been the victim of breast cancer can have some form of corrective surgery for free afterwards.

 

[vulgar_newcomer]

They don't want to pay higher taxes.

That's it in a nutshell.

A part of this is how do you pay higher taxes even if the desire is to improve things with wages & benefits very stagnant or falling and the job market for millions is low paying dead end no future,.... while cost such as utilities, transportation and all insurance is climbing rapidly?
This is the reality for the majority and many who don't consider themselves involved in this class will fall as lower income and middle class are starved off on buying things from those with a better economic standard now. They will get sucked down with the poorer people.

Make no mistake I am for vast improvement and single payer non profit healthcare. But if you're busted you are busted.

 

[vulgar_newcomer]

Johann you and I certainly agree. In 1900 the population of the USA was about 76 million there was no middle class. This all came about through labor unions and WWII in the long. There are no million people needed to build Sherman tanks or work at Westinghouse and a lot of this was through technology. The 48 are the same but in 2012 there are 312 million and regardless of skill and education everyone cannot be a chief, many more are Indians with no hope or desire to be greater just content.
I work for a powerful oil company, like all in the oil industry they continue to slash benefits, continue to hire "contractors" who get nothing and must provide there own and they reap massive entitlement through subsidy. Anywhere in my field a employee can be let go in favor of a private contractor goes.
I remember seeing guys applaud when my big ass oil company told them at a meeting that they had gotten rid of long/short term disability but there was now in place a 401 K they could enroll in however the company provided no match, they provide the income for their retirement based on the goodness of a company sponsored plan. The problem is of course no wages were increased so who could contribute?
I watch some of these guys who all worked 70 to 80 hr -6 day wks push it more, I remember one suck wad kiss ass drop of a heart attack, but he lived but he couldn't would work 120 hrs a wk however after his heart attack he was totally spent and couldn't pass the physical he was done and he had no disability insurance anymore through his employer (posting record profits that yr).
Like the bullshit health savings plans the Republicans favor, its all bullshit and if you fall ill at 35 and haven't contributed heavy to that heath savings plan you fucking are solo there is nothing there to reap.

 

[vulgar_newcomer]

remember a huge lie, that if you are 25 social security will not be there for you.
Pffft..... if you fall critically into a health crisis at 25 or 55 social security is there for you now with disability insurance if you have enough work credits.
This is similar to saying I have home owners insurance or auto insurance and I never filed a claim and I got nothing from it all those years I paid in huge premiums for I never filed a claim. After 30 yrs of paying home owners insurance I never had a claim, no fire, no storm, no break in................. I got nothing.

But the other guy who paid just 2 months auto insurance and was hit by a driver with no insurance was satisfied with coverage.
It is bullshit to say that coverage doesn't exist if you are young through social security and you will never get it.

If you fall to leukemia and work at Wal-mart for 7 yrs do you think it will be their private disability insurance to help you or if you break your back falling from a ladder in your home? Fuck no that will be social security and medicare and thank god those programs are there for wal-mart doesn't give a shit.

 

[PreTTy PeTe]

I don't understand the big deal with the usa and universal healthcare.

the middle class will probably not pay much more in taxes.

but the wealthy might and honestly it's money they will not miss.

a pittance of what they have.

 

[birddog7]

Only problem is, what we're getting really isn't health care reform. We aren't getting single payer, socialized health care. Forcing people to buy into a system that's already broken, and failing is not the answer. It will not lower taxes, and it will accelerate the rise in health insurance costs. Somebody has to pay for coverages mandated by the government. Including no lifetime limit of coverage, and no exemptions of previously existing conditions.

I would applaud a single payer socialized system. Won't happen until after the collapse, and the formation of a one world socialist government system. Hopefully, I won't be alive for the collapse. It's bad enough now, and I don't want to endure a living hell...