On-Topic When did politicians stop working for us?

[MisterB]

I'd like to propose a civil conversation on the current political state of our great country.

By way of background, I am a long-time forum reader, first-time poster. I am a retired (38 years) federal employee. I will be 60 next year; I am openly gay and partnered for almost 35 years to another retired fed. I follow current events, but don't consider myself a news junkie. Politically, I categorize myself as independent.

Anyway, for me, I'm perplexed by all the vitriol in politics. I don't pretend to understand the inner workings of the Congress, but I was taught that our elected reps work for us, to make it a better United States. When did this change? Or maybe a better question is Why?

Is it related to the plethora of social media/news outlets? I mean, how do these shows/blogs get ratings or followers if they are not sensationalizing every tidbit of news? Or taking statements out of context and then passing them off as fact?

Maybe I'm just naive, but don't we as Americans have more in common than we are different? Whether gay/straight/bi-sexual; black, white, green, or pink; religious or athiest; etc., don't we all want a lot of the same things? I mean, to be healthy, to love or be loved, to be secure, to pursue happiness, etc.

Anyway, I would be curious to see what others think. If I've created an overlapping thread, I'm sorry--please delete and kindly direct me to the appropriate thread. Thanks!

 

[Benvolio]

People do not agree what is good for "us". Capitalism or socialism for one thing. Economic equality vs. economic freedom. Short term good vs. long term. What is good for one group is not good for another.
Much of the problem is caused by political parties wanting power. Taking from one group to give to another buys votes. To that end, liberals have promoted the idea that diversity and multiculturalism are good, while assimilation, the melting pot are not good. Under this idealogy, ethnic groups should be encouraged to be separate, to keep their own culture, language, customs and to resist assimilation. Many liberals would scoff at the idea that their is an American culture, insisting that ever one is Irish, or German, etc.

 

[TX-Beau]

Ben you don't speak for "liberals," you just regurgitate Republican shit on the subject.

We the people can't possibly pay the two party system what they can get whoring themselves to Ben's cherished corporate fuck-you-I-got-mine (and fuck you too ben for being a deviant faggot) political dream team.

 

[MisterMajestic]

Welcome to JUB Mister8.....Good post.....

Politicians are under the impression they are working for their constituents when they call the President a liar on LIVE television on the Congress floor....How do their constituents reward them you ask? By sending in Millions of dollars for their next election.....

Politicians are under the impression they are working for their constituents when they go to town-hall meetings and call their fellow Congressmen Communists...Once again the Politicians are rewarded through voter-dollars to keep up the Wonderful-negativity...So who's guilty here the Politician or the Voter? Seems like everybody is happy...

The world of Politics has been affected GREATLY since YouTube, Twitter. Cell-Phone Cams and their social networking brothers and sisters went VIRAL....Think about it, a Politician can lose his job over-night thanks to Viral videos secretly shot & produced by anybody that wants Internet fame...

The positive side to the Internet's influence on Politics is the Politician can shine a light on his/her achievements. 1 viewing-voter has the Power to make the vid go viral which could benefit the Politician...

We're in a CRAZY age of Technology where one hand helps the other....So today Politicians can go to Washington and pretty much test the waters on the Televised Congress Floor or outside on the steps and get INSTANT feed back from their districts...Voters have been fooled into thinking they are the REAL Bosses of the Politicians but in reality the Politicians are the Puppet Masters and the Constituents are the Puppets under the strings....

Bottom line..Now that Politicians can create any kind of Narrative through Technology/Social Networking the Constituent is nothing more than a ticket purchaser buying a ticket at the Box office waiting to see the show....

 

[rareboy]

People do not agree what is good for "us". Capitalism or socialism for one thing. Economic equality vs. economic freedom. Short term good vs. long term. What is good for one group is not good for another.
Much of the problem is caused by political parties wanting power. Taking from one group to give to another buys votes. To that end, liberals have promoted the idea that diversity and multiculturalism are good, while assimilation, the melting pot are not good. Under this idealogy, ethnic groups should be encouraged to be separate, to keep their own culture, language, customs and to resist assimilation. Many liberals would scoff at the idea that their is an American culture, insisting that ever one is Irish, or German, etc.

What a load of bullshit.

And trust me. That is me being civil.

 

[frankfrank]

The CITIZENS UNITED Supreme Court decision two-and-a-half years ago guarantees that politicians will **NEVER** again work for "us" - unless the entire process is changed, perhaps by Constitutional Amendment.

Most people (even here in the United States) are rather "inconvenient" costs to the bottom lines of the multinational corporations, as we actually want to have opportunity, health care and insurance (which are priced beyond our affordability), adequate pay for our labors, etc.

To many in higher political power - but especially the Republicans - those people who do little else but eat and who live in shacks, are a burden to them. KILL THE POOR. (The Dead Kennedys did a song about this many years ago, as Jello Biafra was well aware of how unbridled greed will destroy a society.) Of course, though Michael Savage was the only one regularly saying so, these same people think of the developing world as "TURD-World nations."

 

[jackoroe]

First, welcome Mr. B. I think some of the responses you've seen here are very illustrative of the problem you've cited. We're pretty much always at each others throats and that's what the politicians want. This way, nobody is watching them as they work for their own personal interests and not ours.

To answer your question, they stopped working for us when we allowed them to forget that fact.

 

[JayHawk]

I think the politicians stopped working for us when the virtual filibuster was created and mandated 60 votes to accomplish anything. Having that insurmountable guideline makes governing by negotiation impossible because everyone knows that whether left or right they can pretty much block anything from passage.

The second greatest obstacle to accomplishing anything would be the news cycle / social media. Lots of the same deal making went on behind closed doors previously and under gentlemen's rules nobody went on the campaign trail, nightly news or twitter to blast a cooperating member from across the aisle if he backed down on a pledge previously made such as taxes. So quietly and without and re-election killing headlines efficient and beneficial acts were done and politicians were paid off with pork.

That would bring me to the third issue that makes our bills or laws crap. They should embrace a rule that restricts legislation to the topic being addressed. No highway or bridge funds attached to the schools bill. And no other pork. A simple straightforward thesis statement if you will on the reason for the legislation with no deviations to 'pay-off' fellow politicians for their votes. Force them to make and agree to those things behind close doors and we the people can judge each bill on it's merits.

 

[MisterB]

First, welcome Mr. B. I think some of the responses you've seen here are very illustrative of the problem you've cited. We're pretty much always at each others throats and that's what the politicians want. This way, nobody is watching them as they work for their own personal interests and not ours.

To answer your question, they stopped working for us when we allowed them to forget that fact.

Thanks for the welcome. You are right, a few of the posts in this thread seem to be more of what I've read from the same posters elsewhere on this forum.

However, yours, MisterMagistic's, frankfrank's and JayHawk's posts are examples of the dialog I was looking for in this thread. I think each of you made excellent points. It's funny how MisterMajestic posted a lot of the same specific/thoughts that were running through my mind when I decided to create this thread.

I think my main issue with Congress is their NO SHAME, regardless of, IMO, the ridiculous positions or political bents. That applies to both parties, but I seem to see it currently more with the republicans. One example, the latest "claim" by Congresswoman Bachman about the Secretary of State's close advisor who she claims has radical muslim ties. Ridiculous, when you look at the facts. But, I guess you'll do anything to keep your name in the news, eh? Even when the elder statesman from your own party rebuke you and it makes you look just plain stupid, IMO. But again, when you have no shame...

I'm already worn out by the current presidential race. I'm tired of all the negativity. But I guess I should have expected it when the Senate minority leader said two years or more ago that his number one priority was to defeat the current President. Now explain again how that helps create jobs NOW as well as tackle various other important issues that this country faces?

If memory serves, the President the minority leader wants to defeat at any cost inherited the deficit, wars, unemployment rate, etc. Why not work to solve these issues for the good of the country? Oh, that's right, we want to be in charge, regardless of the problems we've caused. Don't get me wrong--I'm one who did fine during the Bush years. But I also remember that when President Clinton left office, this country had a surplus and we were not at war. These wars certainly contributed to the current deficit--but some politicians seem to forget facts. Selective memory?

And, yes, this cuts both ways across party lines. That's why I'm trying to understand how we got to where we are today. I've thought at times that it relates to what some describe to be the denegration of our interpersonal relations when we can talk, fuss, cuss, argue, stretch the truth, outright lie, etc. without ever meeting face-to-face. That just makes me sad for our future.

 

[MisterB]

I submitted a semi-lengthy post about three hours ago. I hit reply with quote to jackoroe's post above. Got the message that it had to be reviewed by moderator before being posted. Am I too anxious?

 

[Corny]

^ yes it's just the software trying to slow down spammers. it's very suspiscious about new users posting long posts

 

[portchar1908]

Mister8 - welcome, I'm somewhat new to this process as well, but enjoy a lively debate - constructive though. You will see, and there's evidence of this in this thread, that there are some who just wish to stir up things by saying anything and everything to agitate anyone with a different point of view than theirs.

I appreciate your thread and the sentiment of your question. I don't have any answers but have felt the same sense of loss that civil discorse and "statesmen" like leadership has long been abandoned.

My partner and I (he's a retired fed worker also 32 yrs at DOD). We've been partners for 38 years, incredibly loving years.

I know things move at lightening speed today with all the social media and other gadgets to keep the news cycle spinning and warp speed but even so, is than an excuse to abandoned our principles, our convictions, our sense of moral responsibility to our fellow man.

Personally, I don't think so.

 

[JayHawk]

You nailed it on the head MisterB... When the only goal is power then it doesnt matter what or who you crush along the way. Including the very Americans they were elected to represent and effectively protect from abuses that the republican party serves up none stop.

I think it is rather hard to stay even handed when presented with the reality of what one party in America is doing.

 

[chance1]

seems like a thread about "what went wrong" became a "it's the republican's fault"

sorry MisterB but you went from an A to an F rather quickly - from what's up to partisan same old same old

Most of Congress is rich - Harry Reid is rich - politicians make HUGE $ from inside trading plus

term limits need to be enacted - period - brighter minds can figure the exact term but lifetime appointments in some districts is not conducive to good decision making

keeping your job should not be a political end

and just for shits and giggles, Harry Reid's # 1 priority (in his book) is re-electing BO - how is that different?

 

[portchar1908]

sounds like Harry Reid has it right.

 

[MisterB]

portchar: Congratulations on 38 years with your partner. Awesome. I appreciate that you too understand my intention with this thread.

To quote you, "You will see, and there's evidence of this in this thread, that there are some who just wish to stir up things by saying anything and everything to agitate anyone with a different point of view than theirs. " You are so right. I see alot of the same folks make the same arguments thread-to-thread, damn the facts. Politicians on both sides of the aisle are guilty of this too. The media perpetrates this daily. I think your point underscores the original intent of this thread.

This phenomena (sp?) reminds me of a reading for comprehension class I had in middle school. Results from the tests after reading assignments were very revealing in terms of what was actually contained in the text versus what we assumed we read. And, like many of the posters you reference, some of my classmates would argue that they were right, and when proven wrong, well...not much is different here today.

 

[portchar1908]

Thank MisterB, we live in Cape Haze Florida, have a boat at the marina just a few miles from our house. A lot of elderly, I mean very elderly here, and some of them are hard-core republicans, but there's a lot that see the republicans, especially this R&R fiasco, for what they really are -- NO FRIENDS OF THE ELDERLY or anyone else for that matter (except the rich).

 

[maxpowr9]

I agree with Chance. Appropriate term limits would be 6 for Congress and 2 for Senate and you lose your benefit package upon "retiring". Although Chance, Reid's goal is the opposite of McConnell's goal of making Obama a one-term President so it defeats the purpose of your point.

 

[chance1]

I agree with Chance. Appropriate term limits would be 6 for Congress and 2 for Senate and you lose your benefit package upon "retiring". Although Chance, Reid's goal is the opposite of McConnell's goal of making Obama a one-term President so it defeats the purpose of your point.

confused ****

u can't be made at Mitch for wanting to win but give Harry a pass for wanting to win

it's the same thing - different horse

 

[Centexfarmer]

confused ****

u can't be made at Mitch for wanting to win but give Harry a pass for wanting to win

it's the same thing - different horse

I'm confused too.

When someone agrees with you does that make your head explode, and you experience some form of anxiety attack in how to respond?

Mitch McConnell is quoted as saying:

"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president."

Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid suggests that Romney hasn't paid any taxes in the past ten years, and the GOP National Party Chair calls Harry Reid:

DIRTY LIAR!

It's clear that you're missing the point because someone posted something that doesn't speak to your own personal narrative.

Now then back to topic:

Anyway, for me, I'm perplexed by all the vitriol in politics. I don't pretend to understand the inner workings of the Congress, but I was taught that our elected reps work for us, to make it a better United States. When did this change? Or maybe a better question is Why?

I see that as a two part question, so I'll attempt to answer from my own perspective.

When did this change?

I'd have to go with the Reagan Era.

By the 1980's most Americans were still reeling from images of American Helicopters abandoning the roof top of the American Embassy in Saigon in 1975:



Or the images of The Iran Hostage Crisis of 1979:

As a kid I remember the 1970's as being a pretty fucked up decade.

Can anyone say DISCO?

During the 1980's the Republican Party discovered that they could get a block of votes from Jerry Falwell's "Moral Majority," and that suddenly they wouldn't have to be about legislative issues anymore, they could just run on WEDGE ISSUES; back then it was God, Guns, and Gays.

The Democrats were trying hard to legislate guns, especially after the attempted assassination of Reagan back in 1981.

The 1968-1975 Republican Presidency of Richard M. Nixon gave Americans the Environment Protection Agency, The Drug Enforcement Agency, and other Government Agencies while Nixon and his Secretary of State Henry Kissinger were "praying in the White House" with Billy Graham.

President Reagan worked all of that like the Corporate Puppet that he was; AIDS, Roe V Wade, Christian Evangelicals, all either bought and paid for or lambs being led to slaughter.

a better question is Why?

It's the way that 20th Century political party system is set up.

There was a time when both Democrats and Republicans had opposing views.

Democrats, as far back as Woodrow Wilson were actually called "Progressives."

Conservatives were just the opposite.

Often times xenophobic, isolationists, keeping to 'what we know.'

Then "Liberal" became a dirty word (again back in the 1980's), and so called "conservatives" were let off the hook to do and say, and use any [URL="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/emotive"]emotive,[/URL] that they could find to win elections.

It didn't matter about legislation or WHY, what mattered is who could scare the shit out of the American Electorate, in the most simple sound bite possible, while assuring those who didn't understand that it was okay because "some educated elite within Democratic Party" that was really trying to confuse you.

a better question is Why?

Because as Americans we dropped the fucking ball!

Because we counted on the Media to educate us about the issues, to inform us about what was really going on.

Reagan and Bush 41 did away with the Fairness Doctrine back in the late 1980's, which gave rise to Talk Radio, Rush Limbaugh, and ultimately to FOX NEWS, where anyone (Like Harry Reid), could say whatever the fuck they wanted while wrapping themselves in the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

And some Americans are either left scratching their asses, or willing to put buckshot and bullets into the heads of fellow Americans, while our Government uses that as an excuse to further limit our civil liberties.

I have friends of mine who waist weeks, months, and even years of their lives reading books, watching youtube videos, and studying blogs trying to find a single individual who's to blame for this "conspiracy" against the American People.

When all that we have to do is to look into the mirror.

We've all been sold a bill of goods.

As Americans we've all become complacent.

We've always thought, and have been taught that "our elected representatives" will look out for us.

Once they get to Washington, and suddenly no longer have to live by the same set of rules; heath care, salary adjustments, office perks, committee appointments, many of them justify their selling themselves out as being able to do "some good" for their constituents."

There's only ONE Political Party in America now; It has a Democratic Wing (and all of the invective that you want to throw at it), and a Republican Wing (with all of the invective that you want to throw at it.).

They're both part and parcel the same party.

For those who've read this far great!

For those who've just skimmed:



Squirrel!