When is it gonna end? This is getting too screwed up. Someone has to tell the gun owners they HAVE to lock up their guns. http://www.alternet.org/flo

[TX-Beau]

It SEEMS to me you are nitpicking and quibbling over semantics because it SEEMS that you tried to change the subject to something completely unrelated, and contradicted yourself in the process.

 

[ygbabc]

It SEEMS to me you are nitpicking and quibbling over semantics because it SEEMS that you tried to change the subject to something completely unrelated, and contradicted yourself in the process.

No not at all. I did not try to change the subject, I explained that earlier in the thread. And there is no contradiction. But I do understand that is your perception and I respect that.

 

[TX-Beau]

If your argument is in another thread, post a link, or restate.

Otherwise we have nothing to go on but what's here.

 

[TX-Beau]

Never mind, I just re-read your post, you meant earlier in THIS thread.

My point stands.

 

[HenryReardon]

Precisely!!!!!!1

Guns don't kill people IDIOTS with guns kill people!!!

Which is why we need extremely efficient and stringent REGULATION on whom can get what.

I'm so glad you agree.

I do not agree with you, nor would any sane American. You can regulate until the cows come home, but you will never ever prevent
people with evil intentions from acquiring firearms. It cannot be done because there will always be a black market for guns.

 

[TX-Beau]

You really need to look up the definition of sarcasm.

 

[Rolyo85]

I do not agree with you, nor would any sane American. You can regulate until the cows come home, but you will never ever prevent
people with evil intentions from acquiring firearms. It cannot be done because there will always be a black market for guns.

Again, it seems Europe and Australia have proven you wrong.

 

[HenryReardon]

Again, it seems Europe and Australia have proven you wrong.

How so? People still kill people in Europe and elsewhere using guns.

 

[rareboy]

^ Duh.

But at a much, much lower rate.

On the other hand, maybe guns in every American household is just a Darwinian tic. You know. Survival of the fittest.

 

[cm98059]

Americans will not willingly give up their weapons. Firearms have been available in this country since it's inception. I know people who have recently, read since Sandy Hook, bought AR-15's and other high powered Semi Automatic Rifles. Not because they have any intention of using them, but simply because if they own it now, it will be legal for them to own it later in the event that they are banned.

Here is what I see is the problem in this situation, why was a 13 year old playing with a family gun. At 13 years old, the boy should have been put through a firearms class and should have been taught the proper handling of a firearm, and should not have been playing with the firearm like it was a toy. The real tragedy here is that that family has to live with the results of their actions. The parents have to live with the knowledge that their actions resulted in the harm of their child. The boy has to live with the knowledge that he shot his sister. There will probably be criminal charges in this case, and I feel that there should be, it is a case of negligence.

I completely agree that if firearms are outlawed only outlaws will have them. But that doesn't mean that we should give up on the idea of regulating firearms. I feel that firearms should be regulated, this incident is a clear case of exactly why we need regulation. We need to mandate firearm safety classes for all gun owners. We mandate that people have to have proof of insurance in their vehicles, we need to require proof of having taken a firearms safety class before buying firearms. I believe that trigger locks reduce accidental shootings. Why can't we as a society demand that firearms owners buy and use trigger locks. In some jurisdictions, if you are convicted of a DWI, they impound your car. Then you have to pay a penalty to retrieve your car. In some cases, the court requires you to place an interlock in your car. There is no reason that I can see why the same requirements cannot be enforced in firearms cases. I am sure we have the technology to make a trigger lock signal law enforcement if a mandated trigger lock is removed. We have the technology to place a radio transmitter onto people who have been placed under house arrest.

 

[White Eagle]

Did you call me a gun nut? It seems that way to me. Why is it so many people (left wing?) resort to name calling in a situation like this? I just threw some statistics out, I did not call anyone any names, I was trying to be very polite and courteous even though your opinion differs from mine. I was just trying to have a respectful discussion about the topic. But you lowered yourself to name calling and you resorted to making some pretty ugly assumptions about me. I know you think you are right, and I respect that, and I will not call you any names or automatically dismiss you because you think differently than me.

I won't pretend to know how the rest of the world is, but I would assume it is different than the United States on many different levels and in many different ways. There has to be more to it than just the number of guns floating around. I do know that Chicago has some of the most strict gun control laws in the US, and it is also one of the most gun-violent cities in the US. And sadly, that makes total sense.

I have said many times on the forum that I don't make my threads "on topic" because the posters can take it somewhere I didn't think of. However because of the situation, Kifs killing kids, this is not about DUI. The problem is adults not locking up their guns, regardless of the regulations.

 

[White Eagle]

Americans will not willingly give up their weapons. Firearms have been available in this country since it's inception. I know people who have recently, read since Sandy Hook, bought AR-15's and other high powered Semi Automatic Rifles. Not because they have any intention of using them, but simply because if they own it now, it will be legal for them to own it later in the event that they are banned.

Here is what I see is the problem in this situation, why was a 13 year old playing with a family gun. At 13 years old, the boy should have been put through a firearms class and should have been taught the proper handling of a firearm, and should not have been playing with the firearm like it was a toy. The real tragedy here is that that family has to live with the results of their actions. The parents have to live with the knowledge that their actions resulted in the harm of their child. The boy has to live with the knowledge that he shot his sister. There will probably be criminal charges in this case, and I feel that there should be, it is a case of negligence.

I completely agree that if firearms are outlawed only outlaws will have them. But that doesn't mean that we should give up on the idea of regulating firearms. I feel that firearms should be regulated, this incident is a clear case of exactly why we need regulation. We need to mandate firearm safety classes for all gun owners. We mandate that people have to have proof of insurance in their vehicles, we need to require proof of having taken a firearms safety class before buying firearms. I believe that trigger locks reduce accidental shootings. Why can't we as a society demand that firearms owners buy and use trigger locks. In some jurisdictions, if you are convicted of a DWI, they impound your car. Then you have to pay a penalty to retrieve your car. In some cases, the court requires you to place an interlock in your car. There is no reason that I can see why the same requirements cannot be enforced in firearms cases. I am sure we have the technology to make a trigger lock signal law enforcement if a mandated trigger lock is removed. We have the technology to place a radio transmitter onto people who have been placed under house arrest.

Maybe firearm safety classes for all gun owners' families. Children can learn the dangers of guns, at an early age, if the parent will take them to a shooting range and let them fire the gun. That should take away the curiosity of what guns do, I would hope. Anyway SOMETHING needs to be done to educate owners.

Oh, damn, I saw you already said that in the second para.

 

[lambdaboy]

Guns do not kill people The NRA kills people by not allowing the correct licensing and back ground check laws.

 

[andysayshi]

It is a tragedy when an innocent person is hurt or killed by a gun. It's a tragedy no matter how an innocent person dies. Here are some statistics that no one seems to ever talk about: In 2011, 9,878 people were killed in alcohol-related crashes in the US. In that same year, 1,140 children were killed in auto accidents, 181 of those children were killed in alcohol-related crashes. These people are never talked about in the way that victims of gun violence are talked about.

Thanks for raising this point. Let's address your statistics with some historical perspective.

In 2011, there were 210 million cars on US roads, and the US road toll was 32,367.

But do you know what it was in 1972?

In 1972, there were around 75 million cars on US roads, and the road death toll was 54,589.

So what changed so dramatically to consistently reduce the road toll in just a few decades?

GOVERNMENT REGULATION.

That's right. Laws forced car manufacturers to make cars safer. Laws discouraged drunk driving. Laws encouraged wearing seat belts. Driver training got better and more ubiquitous. Driver testing got better.

From CNN in 2011:

Experts attribute the change to a variety of reasons, including changes to cars -- such as vehicle rollover protection -- and programs to change driver behavior -- such as campaigns addressing drunk driving, distracted driving and seat belt use. Laws aimed at young people also likely have had an impact, notably older minimum drinking ages and graduated drivers' licenses.

The gun = car debate is a perfect one for the gun lobby to observe properly and honestly, because it clearly demonstrates how government regulation can and does save lives.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/04/04/new-gun-laws-cant-save-lives-false-just-ask-the/193467

 

[andysayshi]

There are 210 million licensed drivers in the US, who drive an estimated 20 billion miles per year in total. Around 85% of US adults have a drivers license.

There are an estimated 270 million guns in the US, but just 30% of Americans own them.

So if less people own guns than cars, why do guns kill similar or more people?

 

[White Eagle]

Forget I said DUI not appropriate for this thread. Andy compares them just right. Thanks Andy, you brought them together very nice.

 

[andysayshi]

Why thank you. (And sorry, I missed that you had said no more DUI discussion. I hadn't got to the end of the thread yet! )

 

[White Eagle]

Why thank you. (And sorry, I missed that you had said no more DUI discussion. I hadn't got to the end of the thread yet! )

Not a problem, you put them together great. The other poster appeared to be changing discussion to DUI totally.

 

[Rolyo85]

What do the Florida gun laws say about safe storage?

 

[opinterph]

What do the Florida gun laws say about safe storage?

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/790.173

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/790.174