Whither CE&P?

[Kulindahr]

It would be great to have some actual conservatives to discuss and debate topics in CE&P, but we don't. What we have are a couple who hurl insults, change the subject, condescend, dismiss the sources and derail threads. It's impossible to talk to people like that.

Is it their lack of debating skills, their low intelligence or what? Some actual conservatives who can share their ideas with the group...... excuse me, the "JubClub"..... without acting like fools would be great. Someone with actual "open minds".

Actually it's not impossible to talk to people like that -- except when they disparage your attempts to actually communicate as arrogant and self-serving. I've spent great deals of time working on communicating with such JUBbers on both right and left, and it isn't impossible.

Now in your second paragraph you start descending into That Which We Ought Not Do. But you're right about needing some thinking conservatives. I can do "conservative" on occasion, as I can do "liberal" on occasion, and I've done so in the past, but I won't volunteer for the job.

 

[CowboyBob]

Actually it's not impossible to talk to people like that -- except when they disparage your attempts to actually communicate as arrogant and self-serving. I've spent great deals of time working on communicating with such JUBbers on both right and left, and it isn't impossible.

Now in your second paragraph you start descending into That Which We Ought Not Do. But you're right about needing some thinking conservatives. I can do "conservative" on occasion, as I can do "liberal" on occasion, and I've done so in the past, but I won't volunteer for the job.

Kui, trying to communicate with those who won't listen is impossible. Sinking down to their level is sometimes the only way to get through to them. I admit your patience is greater than mine.

 

[opinterph]

… we lost him.

Don't be silly, BostonPirate.

 

[BostonPirate]

Don't be silly, BostonPirate.

what is the function of putting yourself on inactive status? why does one do that instead of just not logging on for a while?

what is the purpose? why does the program have that function available?

 

[MoltenRock III]

what is the function of putting yourself on inactive status? why does one do that instead of just not logging on for a while?

what is the purpose? why does the program have that function available?

As a former admin and mod of a discussion forum, some people can't stop themselves from logging in, and thus need a "forced time out" for their own good by invoking the admins to keep them from doing so.

*shrug*. I've never understood it, but JB3 has been going thru a bit of a rough patch lately in his 3D life, so I assume it's tied to that. He'll be back soon enough I'm sure.

 

[bankside]

what is the function of putting yourself on inactive status? why does one do that instead of just not logging on for a while?

what is the purpose? why does the program have that function available?

It's a kind of self-imposed accountability. I've done it once or twice. I plan to log in only when I want to. On the odd occasion I found I was logging in really only out of habit.

 

[Kulindahr]

Don't be silly, BostonPirate.

I will hope. JB3 sounded annoyed with both sides of the spectrum just before he left.

 

[Just_Believe18]

wow surprise surprise
I think your "take" on stuff and advice is self serving and over the top egotistical
what nerve actually
u speak with glee about "cleansing"
with your "inside JUB" nonsense - i don't know about any bannings or whatever but my take is you and others who do spend far too much time on this nonsense - u need to find more to do
i'm bummed because I actually thought u were quite the decent sort
but perhaps this OWS thing has gone to your head - inflationary impact and all
and u talk about nonsense threads - as if u r the judge of such
how about chris robin bullshit michelle bachman threads where ur buddies pile on about her vagina
so get real
i suggest u get your own website and make your own rules
u just want to play in the sandbox with like minded people and eliminate the ones who aren't
the idea that the place is better because the above left ........ is yours
i think the place was better when some of ur fellow clubbers flew the coop but alas they crawled back
they're bullies and it appears u r as well
it's obvious
it's fucking 1984 - all animals are created equal ........... some animals are more equal than others
it's obvious that this is more important to you and the other JUBBERclubbers
so frankly whatever

Chance, I have not resorted to personal attacks against you in this discussion. Calling me names and you actually being the one to judge me is unfounded here. I've offered suggestions on how to improve the dialogue on this forum and all you have been doing is insulting others on this thread. It is disheartening to see you this way. I show you more respect than that.

As for the people who were banned, I offer no support in their favor. Justapixel, Navigaytion, and CTFoSD were terrible in their behavior to this forum. It had nothing to do with them not agreeing with me. They were just legitimately bad communicators who abused the privileges of this forum. If you want to consider yourself as a part of that persecuted minority, you're keeping poor company. There are much better conservative thinkers out there. And you've been around long enough to know how General_Alfie and I used to clash all of the time because his liberal rants were terribly redundant. He was also a bad communicator, and I called him out on it all the time.

If you have personal issues with me, take it to a private message.

 

[kallipolis]

And you've been around long enough to know how General_Alfie and I used to clash all of the time because his liberal rants were terribly redundant. He was also a bad communicator, and I called him out on it all the time.

As an aside, I was particularly drawn to Alfie's posts for they communicated the fervent desire of a man to share his heart felt feelings, despite his delivery appearing melo dramatic I believe that such drama is symptomatic of the territory we post in.

I miss Alfie's well articulated posts, as I do those of NickCole whose opinions offered Obama's supporters a measure of cold reason to confront our often over zealous enthusiasm.

 

[chance1]

Chance, I have not resorted to personal attacks against you in this discussion. Calling me names and you actually being the one to judge me is unfounded here. I've offered suggestions on how to improve the dialogue on this forum and all you have been doing is insulting others on this thread. It is disheartening to see you this way. I show you more respect than that.

As for the people who were banned, I offer no support in their favor. Justapixel, Navigaytion, and CTFoSD were terrible in their behavior to this forum. It had nothing to do with them not agreeing with me. They were just legitimately bad communicators who abused the privileges of this forum. If you want to consider yourself as a part of that persecuted minority, you're keeping poor company. There are much better conservative thinkers out there. And you've been around long enough to know how General_Alfie and I used to clash all of the time because his liberal rants were terribly redundant. He was also a bad communicator, and I called him out on it all the time.

If you have personal issues with me, take it to a private message.

yes u have - treated ME with respect most all of the time

but i guess u don't get it

treating ME decently or whatever is NOT the point

I take issue with your depiction of others - whom all are ironically across the aisle from u politically - your feeling good or great about their banning or leaving or whatever

that u point of THEIR flaws or bad posts - as proof that their exit was good

while u allow bile spewing from ur side to go unmentioned

rareboy drops a turd on everyone he comes into contact with - with personal attacks
BP acts as if he runs the place - dropping bombs like you're a racist or a pedophile (my personal fav)
cowboy bob well ........ just read his posts - no commentary necessary

and u do nada

so frankly it's not about your treatment of me - and we agree u have done what u say u have

but if ur truly some kind of conscience or a bigger man and perhaps u r or can be

u have to have some level of fairness

and u have not exhibited that

i apologize for name calling u - u didn't deserve it

u r right on that acct.

i should've kept my comments to your hypocrisy

 

[rareboy]

^
i guess u don't get it

Just Believe doesn't have to be the conscience of this board. He doesn't have to fulfil any expectations in some role that you are creating for him. You do this again and again. Slotting people into the role you think they have to play here and then being 'disappointed' in them when they fail to meet your expectations.

Just Believe is not the hall monitor either. He doesn't have to spend his time on the board hectoring and chastising everyone that he thinks is breaking some kind of rule, or crossing the line of good taste and decorum.

No one except the Mods really should have that role.

You seem to think that constantly calling out the other posters and wagging your finger at them and sticking up for Michele Bachmann's vagina is your only role in any thread. We're looking for substance and instead, from you, we get consistently lightweight and generally uninformed opinions on how a politician looks instead of how they actually appear.

To be blunt, it always appears that in the absence of real in-depth nuanced understanding of the issue or the background and motivations of the players, your only, and almost immediate response is to plunge in with the ad hominem attacks against all the others who don't agree with you..


Many of those who I found egregiously false and had no problem trading insults with are now gone from CE&P...and not by my doing, but by their own. And many of them within the last few months.

Like JB, I could care less about them disagreeing with my point of view, but all of these hyper-partisan posters on the right have abused the forum and the rest of the members here again and again. Many of them were clever enough to skate around the edge of the pond and avoid disappearing under water for longer than I thought possible.

I also am glad that they are gone, because it means that instead of only their trollish noise, this forum can return to a discussion of issues and ideas. I left until I was sure that this kind of environment might exist again in this forum.

You seem to think this is all about one side winning. It isn't. But that seems to be the problem with the overly politicized US today....the notion that for me to win, everyone else has to lose. Maybe it has something to do with actually caring about football or other team sports, I don't know. You certainly seem to like the sports analogies.

I seriously don't think that you will change your behaviour. Because you see no fault or failing in your approach. I honestly agree with you that you are only everything we see here and will not change.

 

[jackoroe]

Well, this has certainly been interesting. The one thing I did see a couple of you say that is true. When we communicate via PM, we do so without our screen personae.

It's just one person talking to another not trying to make points on a debate or discussion. I've PM'd many of the folks who post here and found most everyone of them to be decent intelligent people.

It's a good opportunity to learn a bit more about each other and where we are coming from. Our life experiences are part of what shapes us and what we believe. Understanding what happened in another's life, helps understand why they believe like they do.

It also does make them more of a human being and not a screen name. It builds respect. We don't need to all agree, but to respect one another's point of view. You can debate issues passionately without being disrespectful to another person.

I'm not suggesting that you hand over all of your personal information to a complete stranger via PM or that it's OK to attack them via PM. But maybe it wouldn't hurt to just make contact when you don't understand a point they've made. Or you want to share an experience about something that might make them at least see life differently. I'm here to tell you it works.

Just something to think about.

 

[jackoroe]

^
i guess u don't get it

Just Believe doesn't have to be the conscience of this board. He doesn't have to fulfil any expectations in some role that you are creating for him. You do this again and again. Slotting people into the role you think they have to play here and then being 'disappointed' in them when they fail to meet your expectations.

Just Believe is not the hall monitor either. He doesn't have to spend his time on the board hectoring and chastising everyone that he thinks is breaking some kind of rule, or crossing the line of good taste and decorum.

No one except the Mods really should have that role.

You seem to think that constantly calling out the other posters and wagging your finger at them and sticking up for Michele Bachmann's vagina is your only role in any thread. We're looking for substance and instead, from you, we get consistently lightweight and generally uninformed opinions on how a politician looks instead of how they actually appear.

To be blunt, it always appears that in the absence of real in-depth nuanced understanding of the issue or the background and motivations of the players, your only, and almost immediate response is to plunge in with the ad hominem attacks against all the others who don't agree with you..


Many of those who I found egregiously false and had no problem trading insults with are now gone from CE&P...and not by my doing, but by their own. And many of them within the last few months.

Like JB, I could care less about them disagreeing with my point of view, but all of these hyper-partisan posters on the right have abused the forum and the rest of the members here again and again. Many of them were clever enough to skate around the edge of the pond and avoid disappearing under water for longer than I thought possible.

I also am glad that they are gone, because it means that instead of only their trollish noise, this forum can return to a discussion of issues and ideas. I left until I was sure that this kind of environment might exist again in this forum.

You seem to think this is all about one side winning. It isn't. But that seems to be the problem with the overly politicized US today....the notion that for me to win, everyone else has to lose. Maybe it has something to do with actually caring about football or other team sports, I don't know. You certainly seem to like the sports analogies.

I seriously don't think that you will change your behaviour. Because you see no fault or failing in your approach. I honestly agree with you that you are only everything we see here and will not change.

Those people who you castigate are far more representative of the average American voter than you may realize. It makes me absolutely cringe when a reporter goes out and asks the average person about an important issue facing the country or why they support or don't support somebody. They get to vote the same as an informed voter. Which is kinda why we are where we are.

It's not a flattering picture, just an accurate one.

 

[Centexfarmer]

I see the thread is being scoured. Good. It will be interesting to see who's [strike]insults[/strike] posts remain.

So will you be the official keeping score?

Just for a comparison, the Occupy Wall Street thread currently has 1,216 posts, with 8,785 views, and only 24 posts "scoured" from the whole thread.

While this thread Whither CE&P has 114 posts, with 802 views, and 14 "scoured" posts.

With some of the bombs that have already been lobbed at each other, and some of those posts that still remain, I think that we've been pretty lenient in what we've allowed to remain viewable by everyone else.

If there's one thing that you and Chance1 have in common, neither of you two have ever demonstrated a reluctance to tell anyone of the Moderators of CE&P where to get off.

We can all disagree with each other without being disagreeable.

Hell we can even have some fun doing it.

I've witnessed it now and again from just about everyone who's posted in this thread.

There's something that I caught myself doing awhile back, and I think that we're all guilty of it.

We see a members screen name, and before reading anything that they have to offer or say, we automatically prejudge what they're about to comment on, how they're going to comment, and without giving one word that they've written any further consideration automatically dismiss what they have to share.

I say that I've caught myself doing that because there was a member (who's posted in this thread) who so completely pissed me off at something that they posted, that I was ready to tear into their ass.

So rather than respond, I just logged off.

When Mark the owner of JUB and the guy who's responsible for keeping the lights turned on around here, and the servers humming decided to honor the passing of a fellow JUBber Tyler Clementi and changed everyone's avatar to the same image something happened.

Suddenly we're actually beginning to read what people are posting, instead of paying attention to their screen names.

(Being Gay Guys we're still very much about the "visual" I guess, and look at avatars as defining features.)

Guys who I previously thought were pretty cool, were actually real assholes.

What's the old saying? "Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one."

I can honestly say, and I challenge anyone to prove me wrong, that I personally like just about everyone who posts here in CE&P.

Where some begin to lose my respect is when they seem to go out of their way to show a complete and total lack of respect toward other members.

Seriously, back here in Mod Tower we're hoping that a couple of you just a get a room, fuck it out, then upload the video to the Fetish or Gay Porn Forum.

But when it comes to opinions, perspectives, and issue topics we do allow each and everyone to speak their minds here.

If someone sees that one of their posts has gone missing, please don't take it personally.

It's our way of "moderating" a discussion without a desire on our part of making a big deal out of it.

We can do that: CE&P Posting Guidelines:

When debating, express your opinion about a person's ideas, not about them personally. Any post containing a direct personal insult will be removed or edited, regardless of the content of the rest of the post.

So for emphasis I'd like to state one of my observations again:

We see a members screen name, and before reading anything that they have to offer or say, we automatically prejudge what they're about to comment on, how they're going to comment, and without giving one word that they've written any further consideration automatically dismiss what they have to share.

I suggest that we stop doing that. At least try.

I've been in personal friendly PM contact with just about everyone who's posted in this thread.

I've even personal met and shared a beer and food with some of you.

I do agree with one sentiment that has been suggested in this thread, taking the time to personally get to know each other privately makes all of us "people" instead of just an "opinion" that we don't like or agree with.

Which is one of the reasons why I feel that I can come along and poke some of you with a stick in good fun, and don't mind the same thing when they do it to me.

I could post more, but I'm sure that a couple of you have already been distracted by something else.

 

[chance1]

There's something that I caught myself doing awhile back, and I think that we're all guilty of it.

We see a members screen name, and before reading anything that they have to offer or say, we automatically prejudge what they're about to comment on, how they're going to comment, and without giving one word that they've written any further consideration automatically dismiss what they have to share.

Love it

for a handful of JUBBERs I do that - but in fairness I have yet to find when I return and re-trace my steps, that I'm surprised by what I "missed"

Let's say that I hope to be surprised someday

death taxes and slurs from a handful are certainties in life

as is my go for the throat response

as usual your missive is thoughtful and full of ....... real

not sure what motivates one to be so

but glad u r

 

[Centexfarmer]

Love it

for a handful of JUBBERs I do that - but in fairness I have yet to find when I return and re-trace my steps, that I'm surprised by what I "missed"

Let's say that I hope to be surprised someday

death taxes and slurs from a handful are certainties in life

as is my go for the throat response

Well I appreciate where you're coming from most of the time, and I see some of the defenses that you make as a good "counterweight" to some of the less "gentlemanly" comments, I wonder why you feel the need for "go for the throat response."

as usual your missive is thoughtful and full of ....... real

not sure what motivates one to be so

but glad u r

Thanks Buddy.

You should know by now that I don't bullshit.

 

[chance1]

Well I appreciate where you're coming from most of the time, and I see some of the defenses that you make as a good "counterweight" to some of the less "gentlemanly" comments, I wonder why you feel the need for "go for the throat response."

hmmm - if I could answer that I would have no need for my therapist now would i ?

irish catholic upbringing perhaps
marine father
yada yada

my short version is that I think a handful of JUBBERclubbers are exceedingly nasty to the 20% or so who don't subscribe to their view

I thought the comments towards JayQueer were esp. nasty

and the "we got them gone" etc. yucky

if u were to trace my posting i would never defend ill informed comments by JQ or nasty missives by JustPixel - in fact I did the opposite

Perhaps I fancy myself the defender of the minority in a small way - crazy but some truth there

to be continued ......

and I will take "appreciate ...... most of the time" as a big win

no BS is the way I like it

cheers

 

[CowboyBob]

<snip>

We see a members screen name, and before reading anything that they have to offer or say, we automatically prejudge what they're about to comment on, how they're going to comment, and without giving one word that they've written any further consideration automatically dismiss what they have to share.

<snip>

Oh..... why do you have to go and be the adult in the room?

The above mentioned is so true. All you have to do is look at someone's avatar and you already know what they're saying about the topic (or off topic) without reading. It's the same as walking into a crowded room and seeing the person.

 

[Centexfarmer]

hmmm - if I could answer that I would have no need for my therapist now would i ?

You? Seeing a therapist? What the hell for?

irish catholic upbringing perhaps
marine father
yada yada

Never mind.

my short version is that I think a handful of JUBBERclubbers are exceedingly nasty to the 20% or so who don't subscribe to their view

The "NutterJUbbers?"

That has always been one of my favorites, or would that be the remaining 80%?

You know that I've always taken issue with the "division." Honestly though, I couldn't ever necessarily argue against your math.

I thought the comments towards JayQueer were esp. nasty

Hurtful to be sure, but not nearly as nasty as discovering that we had all been duped.

We're kind of on the "honor system" here.

It's one thing to play out a "persona" to work through issues, or to just be anonymous, but to purposefully deceive other members, that's a horse of a different color.

But I get what you're saying.

I'm just saying is that some folks really don't need to be defended, and in doing so it's time ill spent.

and the "we got them gone" etc. yucky

I read that post, and in my view that's not what he was saying.

He just acknowledged that they were no longer members here, and I can assure you it had nothing to do with what "nasty" comments directed toward them.

It's funny really.

Being back here in Mod Tower we often see two personalities; the one that certain members present to everyone else, and the one the members present to the Mod Team.

We can be sympathetic toward some, and shocked and dismayed at others.

The members mentioned essentially left by their own accord.

if u were to trace my posting i would never defend ill informed comments by JQ or nasty missives by JustPixel - in fact I did the opposite

Perhaps I fancy myself the defender of the minority in a small way - crazy but some truth there

Does that come with a cape?

Are you wearing boxers or briefs, tights or spandex?

to be continued ......

and I will take "appreciate ...... most of the time" as a big win

no BS is the way I like it

cheers

Yep me too!

 

[maxpowr9]

hmmm - if I could answer that I would have no need for my therapist now would i ?

irish catholic upbringing perhaps
marine father
yada yada

my short version is that I think a handful of JUBBERclubbers are exceedingly nasty to the 20% or so who don't subscribe to their view

I thought the comments towards JayQueer were esp. nasty

and the "we got them gone" etc. yucky

if u were to trace my posting i would never defend ill informed comments by JQ or nasty missives by JustPixel - in fact I did the opposite

Perhaps I fancy myself the defender of the minority in a small way - crazy but some truth there

to be continued ......

and I will take "appreciate ...... most of the time" as a big win

no BS is the way I like it

cheers

Chance honey, I've got the asshole Irish Catholic father too and he was the main reason my current BF and me split up the first time. I've endured the BS that he has shoveled out and gave me thick skin and hardened my BF's too. So don't even throw that around as an excuse.

I've always tried to understand somebody's point of view that may be different from mine to learn where they are coming from. You learn a lot more about someone if you ask why they may think a certain way instead of berating them with a torrent of ill-conceived words. Let them explain themselves instead of telling them what to think.