Why all gay people have to be effeminate?

[Christopher123]

Well... all? I don't think so. Most of the gay guys I know, including myself, just act like guys. I guess. I've had people tell me that if they didn't know I was gay, they'd never suspect it. I don't act 'macho' or anything like that, I'm actually very quiet and soft-spoken. But I know straight guys who are quiet and soft-spoken as well.

The only gay men I know who act gay are transvestites. Even when they're not in drag, they're very femmie. One of them, who is a pretty good friend, calls me and every guy around him "sweetie" and "honey" and "darling" and all that. I wouldn't dream of calling another guy sweetie or darling, lol.

 

[Christopher123]

It's really sad to hear people announce that they aren't attracted to effeminate guys, or that they 'pass for straight'.

I personally don't think I pass for straight. My point was that not "all" gay men act feminine. If I do in some cases, then so be it.

Like Soilwork said, in so many words, I am what I am. Doesn't matter to me either way what people think.

 

[sb]

I am so sick of faggots who think its only acceptable to be a faggot if absolutely nothing you do is stereotypically faggy.

I'd rather fuck a guy in a dress than a guy who spends all his time trying to convince the world how much of a man he is.

 

[wentworth]

Yup, that's exactly what I'm thinking too. There are just as many effeminate straight boys as there are gay boys!

I never bought that. Studies have shown that of the few things we know about gay men, gender aversion is statistically much more prevalent than in the general population.

 

[wentworth]

I think in a joking way, the "Nancy Boy" stereotype is still used, but i think the general public see most gay men as masculine. That's the image that has been pushed hard for the last 10 years. The uber-masculine, macho, manly-man, 'I may be gay but I can kick your straight ass' stereotype.

Which general public?

 

[wentworth]

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Being effeminate involves several different traits and actions. It is also a quality that can vary depending on the beholder's own perceptions. I've met a lot of guys whose claims not to be effeminate were difficult to swallow, but in the end, it's not a quality that I care too much about.

I myself do not feel attracted to superficial guys, and I am not one.

Which I see is the reason people use the term "straight-acting".
I have also found that "masculine" means too many different things to too many people.

 

[wentworth]

In my short experience it's the guys who say "I pass for straight" or "I'm straight acting" who are the most obvious. Gay guys who pass as average don't have to announce it.

It's like Lance Bass, he calls himself and his friends the SAG (straight acting gays), who's he kidding?

See what I mean?
Lance Bass has both gayface and gayvoice.

 

[Swellegant]

I'm glad I didn't have to say anything, others said it so well. Besides, my views have been aired on this topic before, at great length. For those just joining us, my view is that effeminacy is. It doesn't matter why it is, or what it means, or how it came to pass, or what it does to the political process, or whether or not we personally find it attractive (though, for the record, I sure as hell do).

We just accept each-other, foibles and all; that's all that's necessary. Because if we can't accept each-other, how the hell can we expect anyone else to accept us?

 

[seven_sins]

I believe that the vast majority of gay guys are not effeminate. That is why they are not identified in the straight world as being gay. The effeminate guys are instantly identified as gay, and they type cast the rest of us. I am turned off by effeminate guys and I would never want to be identified as effeminate.

 

[fed1983]

What's the problem of saying I'm not attracted to effeminate guys??? It's the same thing as when I say, I'm not attracted to blondes, or I'm not attracted to fat people, or to brats or whatever.

To me it's the same, I'm not so attracted to effeminate people (and we know what effeminate more or less means). This doesn't mean that I can't fall in love with an effeminate guy, or with a fat guy, or a bald one, but it means that my 'ideal-irrealistic' type of guy is slim, only slightly masculine and so on...

And I don't mean that we don't have the right to be whatever we want to be. I'm slim, quite masculine acting, and I know that just by this there are people who will not like me, but I don't care, I'm not gonna change my way of being just because it's fashinable acting straight or acting queenie.

However, this is always so complex, most of us say we're not gonna change. But my ex for instance adapted very well to the circumstances. With me he acted quite masculine. With his totally effeminate friend he was more effeminate, like he had the capacity to switch from one another in order to adapt to the environment.

There's another interesting thing. Probably if you ask people: 'Are you effeminate?' the big majority will say 'no'. Even in these cases where the queen it's noticeable from miles away, people tend to say no. There are few cases only of people admitting they are effeminate, and I sincerely admire their guts to do it!

 

[dartanyon28]

Ok. Here's my 2 cents. I sing and act. I'm an artist. I design costumes and sets, I am into interior design. I sew my own clothes and costumes - Hell I even do drag and do my own makeup - and I'm even going into Cosmetology! Hows that for a stereotype - Don't even make me mention Barbra!

My point is that all of my friends that I have - gay and str8, with the exception of one - have never called me a sissy. Why? Because they never viewed me has acting effeminate. Most of them never even knew I was gay until I told them - including some of the gay ones. My drag persona is nothing more than a character I play. I'm not going to lie about it, but dressing in women's clothes is fun. I have no desire to become a woman, because quite frankly its a pain in the ass to keep up the maintenance!

To the average observer, my natural, everyday personality is masculine enough to pass for str8 with the occasional flamboyant hand gesture, and dramatic rolling of the eyes, that tend to sneak there way in here and there. These traits become more obvious and more concentrated when I am in a good mood and feel like being a little bit of a drama queen, but its usually all for laughs and good fun.

I have a gay friend who becomes so infuriated with me when I "express myself " a little more freely. He tells me not to act so "flamboyant". I have to wonder when he makes this statement because we work at the same place, and there have been horribly forged rumors about us being together as a couple (which we aren't), and my co-workers "assume" that I am the aggressor and he is the submissive. He tries so hard to be "one of the guys" when he is around his str8 co-worker - who know that he is gay - and not let the inner bitch creep up on him.

I mean he is entitled to live his life how he sees fit. As for me, maybe I am flamboyant. I don't feel that I am all that much, but then only one person has told me that I am. Maybe there is that inner bitch in me that just refuses to be contained. But so what? The sexiest thing to me about a guy is his confidence in who he is - butch or fem.

But as for you guys not being into "effeminate" guys; that's all fine and dandy. That's just your preference. We all have them. But when the issue is posted in threads such as this, it is nothing more than a catalyst that is used to promote the notion that "effeminate" people are awkward and strange. And its foolish to even address it. Because lets face it: All gay men have a feminine streak. Sucking dick is not very masculine is it? Our feminine traits give us some pretty incredible advantages over our heterosexual counterparts. I recommend reading "A Letter To Louise" at www.godmademegay.com. He has some very interesting things to say about gay men and their "feminine streaks", plus its very good if you need comfort in reconciling you sexuality with your religion.

"Life's not worth a damn, till you can say I am what I am". It's bad enough when we have discrimination towards our community, but its even worse when we have it within it.

 

[levenshulme31]

Perhaps the perception of gay men as being effeminate is because the more obviously effeminate gay men stand out in the crowd.

You could have a group of 20 'masculine' guys and one flamer, and you can bet it would be the flamer who would draw the attention and, as is the way with stereotypes, tar the others with the same (mascara) brush.

 

[Leidian]

Can I interject the question of why effeminate guys are a turn off to some of my fellow posters? Is it because you are gay, and therefore like men, and are turned off by the idea of your guy acting womanly? Or is it because, as so many people have pointed out, it is a pretty strong stereotype and you are afraid of being associated with it?

I am a firm believer that it doesn't matter how "gay" or "straight" you talk/dress/use hand motions. Someone said you can't be more gay because of your mannerisms than any other gay person. I totally agree.

However, I will admit that as I was in the process of accepting that I was gay, I was slightly turned off by effeminate gay men (in a general sense). The reason is that I do not see myself as being effeminate, though I certainly can be sometimes, and I didn't want to be seen that way simply because I was gay. I didn't want other people to seek out my "feminine streak" as justification for my being gay. As a result, I secretly didn't like feminine guys and refused to accept myself because I didn't want to be more feminine. I am a bit embarassed that I thought that way, but that was how I thought at the time. I am no more or less feminine than I have ever been now that I accept that I am gay, but now I know that was never really the issue, just an excuse for avoidance.

That is why I ask the question I asked. Why don't you like effeminate guys, in general or specifically sexual? Is it really them, or is it your own shit? If it's your own shit, deal with it - and do it without being a jerk because it can be damn hard to be yourself and even harder to ignore other people bringing you down (even if it is just based on their own ignorance or fear).

 

[MCsNo1Fn]

I don't get why not being attracted to girly men is a bad thing?

If I wanted a woman, I'd date one. End of story.

 

[kornpone]

Honey

All I can, as a very effeminate male, is how biased and prejuiced your statements are.

How dare you or anyone assume that I'm "acting gay" or my nature is enhanced by some social conditioning? How dare anyone make a judgement about my femine or masculine nature by the way I talk or act? Is gender based on how we sound, dress, or the way we pronouce our "s"? Do we look at women and make judgements about their "womanly natures" based on whether they were flannel or chanel?

Please. This is sooooooo eighth grade. I'm sorry, but I've long ago stopped caring about whether or not people like me. And I'm as freaking effminate as I can be.

Why is being able to "pass" as straight such a good thing?

Well of course the fems are perceived as the underdog here and so when Miss Thang asserts herself and defends her honor everyone gives a big cheer. And of course she does it by trashing the starter of this thread.

"How dare you make judgments . . . " isn't that exactly what you are doing in return? You have no doubt gotten trashed in the past so that means the way to make it right is to trash someone else in return?

And you might say that he's a narrow-minded bigot who needs to be exposed and trashed -- sorry, but things are never that black and white.

A lot of guys here who are only attracted to those who are "straight acting," (stupid label, but right now it's the only reference I've got) are guys who just want to be themselves, and like the queens, have gotten their share of disrespect. I know I have. And guess where a lot of that came from? Not from some redneck straights, as you might expect, but from the fems. I've had my share of effeminate friends, but it got to the point where I just couldn't hang with them because I couldn't take being referred to as "she" and I didn't want to be one of the girls off to do their nails and watch "Desperate Housewives." But if you want to hang with gay guys (in San Francisco, at any rate) there's a lot of peer pressure to be that way. And if you don't share those inclinations you get a lot of bitchy remarks like, "Oh, look at Miss Thang, she's trying to be a man now." Well, I wasn't trying to be anything, I just wanted to be myself, so thanks a lot for all the support.

Most gays (the majority of people who post on these boards, for instance) are attracted to men because they have masculine qualities. Which means that they'll probably be turned off by men who display exaggerated feminine behavior. That's just the way it is -- if we can choose what type we're attracted to we might as well choose to be attracted to the opposite sex -- and we can't.

I think a lot of hostility towards fems that you find on JUB may be out of frustration, because for a lot of us the only gays who seem to exist are the effeminate ones, since they're the only ones who are visible. And it doesn't help that we're constantly being told (especially here) that the guys who we're really attracted to are "straight", and therefore unavailable. It's always look but don't touch.

So I can see where the original poster of this thread is coming from, and I say just as the fems don't deserve the trashing that I'm sure they constantly get, neither does he.

 

[sexylad]

I'm certainly not effeminate, but I don't think it's fair to
a) Judge effeminate or "camp" guys
b) To say most gay men are effeminate... I know many, many who are definately not.

 

[ladygrey]

^
Believe it or not, kornpone,

I agree with you.

I have never wanted to wear woman's clothers or makeup. I happen to like hockey. And I have little time for sitting around and making fun of people who are "less fablulous" than me. All of that is simply more of the same, just from the other side.

And I'm not bashing the kid. I'm pointing out the issues with what he's saying.

And I'm not "miss thing". I routinly wander through forests for days, get dirty, and enjoy it.

And I also listen to Janet Jackson and shake my groove thing.

Which is exactly my point, really...we can do whatever we want.....because at the end of this life, we're not just men or women, but people.

And life is so much more fun when we allow oursevels to be all that we are.

it's all about balance.


As for the whole attraction thing.....

I know that at 5.8 and 157 pounds I'm already losing in that area....

but, I happen to not be attracted to darker skinned boys........

Until I met an increbile wonderful human being who just happened to have darker skin.....

and then it didn't seem so important.

So maybe, just maybe,

If we all stopped calling each other out and starting calling each other in...
we'd finally become a community, instead of a grade school class (I can say that cause I teach 5 yearolds)

So yah,

let's all get over ourselves and our dicks, ok?

Just repeat after me:

I'm exactly as I need to be. I'm exactly as I was meant to be. I'm all I need to be.

and I'm as man as I need to be and as woman as I need to be.

 

[Centexfarmer]

What was that line out that movie back in the 70's?

A gay told this "straight" guy,

"I'm more Woman than you'll ever have, and more Man than you'll ever be!"

That's what I'm talking about!

 

[Leidian]

Isn't that quote from "Too Wong Fu". I think Jon Lequizamo's (sp?) character said it. Maybe not.