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Why ARE gay men more feminine than straight men?
- Thread starter matty20
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They aren't more feminine. It's just that the more flamboyant/gregarious members of society tend to stand out more than most of us wallflower types. 
It's normally easy to spot a groups of Americans in a bar because they tend to be loud and 'confident' - another stereotype - but like feminine gays - it isn't necessarily a true picture of Americans abroad....
It's normally easy to spot a groups of Americans in a bar because they tend to be loud and 'confident' - another stereotype - but like feminine gays - it isn't necessarily a true picture of Americans abroad....
They aren't more feminine. It's just that the more flamboyant/gregarious members of society tend to stand out more than most of us wallflower types.
It's normally easy to spot a groups of Americans in a bar because they tend to be loud and 'confident' - another stereotype - but like feminine gays - it isn't necessarily a true picture of Americans abroad....
I get what you're saying, and I myself fit absolutely no criteria of "stereotypical". People are shocked when I tell them that I am gay. However, my point is that you never see straight men like Chris Crocker and the like.
SLOPPYSECONDS
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That's what you say.
By the way - this thread is stereotypical.
Also your numerous butch on femme kind of threads suggest that you kinda like "stereotypical" gays
chrisw87
Meow!
<-- thinks this thread needs more phrases like "gay homosexuals" /troll.
But seriously, consider this, although it is a stereotype, there is usually some truth behind most. Whether it is just because feminine gay men are paraded in peoples minds because they are both feminine and gay, or if it is because they are in a higher prevalence than feminine straight guys, who knows.
I would say it is a possible combination of the two, but more likely that if you are gay, and out of the closet, you are just being yourself. There is no reason for your to try to prove your 'masculinity' by acting like someone you are not and restricting yourself of 'feminine' past times.
edit: sorry to put this in perspective you should consider my hobbies and past-times;
Gardening, cooking, basic but modern interior design, mens fashion (things I use for work and going out, cuff-links, nice dress clothing, fragrances ohhh the fragrances)
Add this to me being single for 2 years and not afraid of using a bucket-full of body language (rule one of communication people - after active listening that is) and people instantly go 'BAM he's gay' well at work at least, when I was dating a nice lady it confused their stereotypical view but guess what, half of them enjoy the same hobbies they just don't openly discuss it in a group of straight men.
But seriously, consider this, although it is a stereotype, there is usually some truth behind most. Whether it is just because feminine gay men are paraded in peoples minds because they are both feminine and gay, or if it is because they are in a higher prevalence than feminine straight guys, who knows.
I would say it is a possible combination of the two, but more likely that if you are gay, and out of the closet, you are just being yourself. There is no reason for your to try to prove your 'masculinity' by acting like someone you are not and restricting yourself of 'feminine' past times.
edit: sorry to put this in perspective you should consider my hobbies and past-times;
Gardening, cooking, basic but modern interior design, mens fashion (things I use for work and going out, cuff-links, nice dress clothing, fragrances ohhh the fragrances)
Add this to me being single for 2 years and not afraid of using a bucket-full of body language (rule one of communication people - after active listening that is) and people instantly go 'BAM he's gay' well at work at least, when I was dating a nice lady it confused their stereotypical view but guess what, half of them enjoy the same hobbies they just don't openly discuss it in a group of straight men.
Asenath
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This is not true. There is a wide variance in the "masculine" behaviors of heterosexual men. No one discusses it, though.
Masculinity is a social construct anyway - an outmoded one, at that. Make your own masculinity, whatever it is.
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I work with a feminine straight church going manager. Yes, he has a girlfriend to confirm that he is straight(not that he ever needed to "confirm" it - which makes me respect him) - she also works with us.
I render your uselessness invalid.
I go now, to await your next folly.
I render your uselessness invalid.
I go now, to await your next folly.
fabulouslyghetto
Kween of Hot Topics
Youve never seen a feminine straight man? Either you live under a rock on mars or i call bullshit.
vidarr
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I have to go with rareboy, who cares?
Sometimes the stereotype in people's minds gives us license to act feminine in certain situations..
Let me be clear though straight guys can be feminine too..
Hell with the machismo at my work you would think every single guy there was gay..
Theres a few that go so far as to hump eachother as a "prank"
But they are all straight..
Sometimes the stereotype in people's minds gives us license to act feminine in certain situations..
Let me be clear though straight guys can be feminine too..
Hell with the machismo at my work you would think every single guy there was gay..
Theres a few that go so far as to hump eachother as a "prank"
But they are all straight..
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The focus of the question could be changed, observing instead that "feminine-acting" (i.e. what we sometimes call stereotypical) guys are, I think, USUALLY gay. Yes, NOT always, but certainly far more than 10% of "feminine" guys (compared to the common wisdom "10% of the male population is gay") would be gay. And those who act the most feminine are most likely to be gay among that group of men who act feminine to some noticeable degree.
Which skews the total population of gay men (as averaged out) toward seeming to be more feminine - if somebody were to take the entire male population and, individually, calculate some numerical measurement of "feminine" conduct and determine if every male was gay.
It's an impossible study, though, because it would have to include bisexuals who are mostly gay. So, would those who consider themselves 70% gay be included, or would it need to be at least 85%?
Most people who consider themselves gay - and validly so - are actually bisexual, though their gay percentage may be 93% or 98% or 99.5% or something. For that matter, the straight dude who wants the occasional blowjob outside his marriage a couple times a year doesn't become gay just because of that, but he IS bisexual - perhaps 97% straight or something. But he also knows what feels good...
The feminine traits would be averaged across the ENTIRE populations of males, and the population of those who identify as gay, and the average "femininity trait numerator" (or whatever in the hell the number is called, lol) would have a higher number in the gay community.
The question "...ARE gay men more feminine than straight men?" COULD be read two ways:
1. When somebody is gay, why does he act more feminine than a straight guy?
2. Averaged across the entire population, why is a gay man more likely to appear feminine than is a straight man?
I read the question the second way; the first way would indeed be assigning a stereotype, which has been proven over and over to most often not be true. I don't think the question was asked in a "stereotypical" way at all.
I guess after much thought, if I was asking the question instead, I'd ask it something like "Why IS a gay man more likely to appear feminine, than a straight guy is?" But it would be very easy to ask the question the way it was asked, and that's how I took it, and if I asked the question without pondering for half an hour exactly how to ask it, I might have asked it exactly the same way. I'm not going to pile on the OP for this.
OK - on the AVERAGE for the populations, I'd say YES. However, sometimes people consider the MEDIAN, which I don't think works here.
Hypothetically after all the statistics are compiled IN THE UNITED STATES (where the OP most likely lives), and let's say there are 100 million adult men, of which 10 million are gay...find the 50 millionth guy along the femininity scale, and find the 5 millionth gay guy among the femininity scale, and compare the two. They would be INDISTINGUISHABLE from each other.
I specify the United States, because that's where 99% of my experiences are, and population/cultural differences may lead to different answers in other countries.
We all know that it's only a fairly small minority of gay men who appear to have "easily visible" feminine traits in their daily actions (or speech, etc.), so those gay men would entirely escape the median/middle, but they bring up the average.
Why does my mind have to be so damn analytical, anyway? I'm supposed to be doing other stuff right now!!
And NONE of this answers the OP's question at all, either.
Which skews the total population of gay men (as averaged out) toward seeming to be more feminine - if somebody were to take the entire male population and, individually, calculate some numerical measurement of "feminine" conduct and determine if every male was gay.
It's an impossible study, though, because it would have to include bisexuals who are mostly gay. So, would those who consider themselves 70% gay be included, or would it need to be at least 85%?
Most people who consider themselves gay - and validly so - are actually bisexual, though their gay percentage may be 93% or 98% or 99.5% or something. For that matter, the straight dude who wants the occasional blowjob outside his marriage a couple times a year doesn't become gay just because of that, but he IS bisexual - perhaps 97% straight or something. But he also knows what feels good...
The feminine traits would be averaged across the ENTIRE populations of males, and the population of those who identify as gay, and the average "femininity trait numerator" (or whatever in the hell the number is called, lol) would have a higher number in the gay community.
The question "...ARE gay men more feminine than straight men?" COULD be read two ways:
1. When somebody is gay, why does he act more feminine than a straight guy?
2. Averaged across the entire population, why is a gay man more likely to appear feminine than is a straight man?
I read the question the second way; the first way would indeed be assigning a stereotype, which has been proven over and over to most often not be true. I don't think the question was asked in a "stereotypical" way at all.
I guess after much thought, if I was asking the question instead, I'd ask it something like "Why IS a gay man more likely to appear feminine, than a straight guy is?" But it would be very easy to ask the question the way it was asked, and that's how I took it, and if I asked the question without pondering for half an hour exactly how to ask it, I might have asked it exactly the same way. I'm not going to pile on the OP for this.
OK - on the AVERAGE for the populations, I'd say YES. However, sometimes people consider the MEDIAN, which I don't think works here.
Hypothetically after all the statistics are compiled IN THE UNITED STATES (where the OP most likely lives), and let's say there are 100 million adult men, of which 10 million are gay...find the 50 millionth guy along the femininity scale, and find the 5 millionth gay guy among the femininity scale, and compare the two. They would be INDISTINGUISHABLE from each other.
I specify the United States, because that's where 99% of my experiences are, and population/cultural differences may lead to different answers in other countries.
We all know that it's only a fairly small minority of gay men who appear to have "easily visible" feminine traits in their daily actions (or speech, etc.), so those gay men would entirely escape the median/middle, but they bring up the average.
Why does my mind have to be so damn analytical, anyway? I'm supposed to be doing other stuff right now!!
And NONE of this answers the OP's question at all, either.
AlmondMilk
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Your hobbies seem regular. Especially when I think about a guy who's very fashionable, straight, and can afford it. But I guess those topics would only come up among straight guys if it's a one-on-one convo with a good friend.
A lot of gay men I know tend to have a more dramatic inflection in their voices while speaking... But I can't speak for all gay men, since the amount I know is only a handful. In high school there was an annual drag/fashion show where the guys would put on dresses, heels, and make up. I knew some of the guys personally and they identified as gay/bi, but I'm sure the majority of them were straight football/lacrosse players. Seems like a pretty feminine thing to do, but that doesn't make them gay. Hell, I have a straight male friend who has no problems designing clothes for girls.
I do have to agree with quasar that flamboyant guys stand out the most.
S
Soilwork
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I don't know... why do straight men smell so much worse that gay men?
JayQueer
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I have the perfect answer to your question.
Let's ask Matt Hissey, a "straight acting" gay college student, a Republican, a Tea Partier, and a member of GOProud --
(You've got to watch this clip! lol)
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teh7hOUCIPY[/ame]
Let's ask Matt Hissey, a "straight acting" gay college student, a Republican, a Tea Partier, and a member of GOProud --
(You've got to watch this clip! lol)
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teh7hOUCIPY[/ame]
hotdog1846
To Wed Mr. Clean in Iowa!
There's a well-established correlation between gender nonconformance in prepubescent boys and turning out to be gay men as adults. Indeed, the very best indicator of whether a boy will be gay is whether he's interested in feminine things.
Certainly, in my own experience, openly gay men are indeed generally more effeminate than straight men, especially when they're in a bunch together and don't have to act "butch" to fit in socially.
There are exceptions to every rule, of course, and it's always dangerous to generalize. Plus, most gay guys get offended by the notion that they're not as manly as straight men. It doesn't mean you're not valuable as a human being.
Native Americans had a concept for this: "two-spirit". I wish we had that concept in our way of thinking.
Certainly, in my own experience, openly gay men are indeed generally more effeminate than straight men, especially when they're in a bunch together and don't have to act "butch" to fit in socially.
There are exceptions to every rule, of course, and it's always dangerous to generalize. Plus, most gay guys get offended by the notion that they're not as manly as straight men. It doesn't mean you're not valuable as a human being.
Native Americans had a concept for this: "two-spirit". I wish we had that concept in our way of thinking.
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I don't think we're talking about hobbies when we're talking about feminine and masculine traits. Yes, something like cooking or liking pop might be a "feminine" trait, but that doesn't make someone seem really all that feminine. When I think of "feminine" guys, I think of the ones you can pick right out of a crowd: a very specific kind of fashion, a light and lispy voice, a girly and high pitched laugh, a feminine style of walking.
Those are not gender-neutral "preferences" like hobbies: those are innate gender actions, based around the evolutionary development of genders. I don't think the issues of gender and sexual orientation are separate: in the same way that most people are on a scale of bisexual, most people are on a scale of gender. Gay men, I think, tend to lean more towards the feminine gender. I don't know how, or why, I just know it's true. All you have to do is look around, really. Count the number of gay people you know, and count how many are masculine. There's only one (maybe two) guys that I know that I wouldn't be able to immediately identify as gay moments after meeting them, and even those would probably become apparent as time went by.
Obviously there's a tendency for femininity that's linked with a tendency for homosexuality (vice versa for lesbians). It's just ignorant to deny it, and people who adamantly deny this are just showing their own bias that it's "bad" for gays to be associated with femininity. The question comes down to this: what causes this? We're still investigating, but I'm confident that if we ever explain what causes homosexuality we'll also discover what causes a tendency for gender-opposite behavior.
Those are not gender-neutral "preferences" like hobbies: those are innate gender actions, based around the evolutionary development of genders. I don't think the issues of gender and sexual orientation are separate: in the same way that most people are on a scale of bisexual, most people are on a scale of gender. Gay men, I think, tend to lean more towards the feminine gender. I don't know how, or why, I just know it's true. All you have to do is look around, really. Count the number of gay people you know, and count how many are masculine. There's only one (maybe two) guys that I know that I wouldn't be able to immediately identify as gay moments after meeting them, and even those would probably become apparent as time went by.
Obviously there's a tendency for femininity that's linked with a tendency for homosexuality (vice versa for lesbians). It's just ignorant to deny it, and people who adamantly deny this are just showing their own bias that it's "bad" for gays to be associated with femininity. The question comes down to this: what causes this? We're still investigating, but I'm confident that if we ever explain what causes homosexuality we'll also discover what causes a tendency for gender-opposite behavior.