Why Bailout US Auto Manufacturers?

[Jory]

Mazda, Mazda -- that's a Japanese automobile, is it not? Is it manufactured in Japan? Your genuine, deeply moving concern for American workers just brings a tear to my eye, a lump to my throat.

Question are not some Japanese cars manufactured here and the money sent to Japan?

 

[smelter]

Who is to say what constitutes a 'fair' wage? You? The UAW? Hardly.

Hey, why not, I'll take a shot at it!

A 'fair' wage can be fairly described as the amount an employer is willing, but not under compulsion, to pay to a worker who is willing, but not under compulsion, to accept.

So when do you plan to open your sweat shop, Mr. Reardon?

Labor Unions are inherently evil and have outlived their usefulness by at least a century. Time to do away with them once and for all. Not to mention the fact that "collective" bargaining is inherently anti-American in concept.

You were in management, as was I ..... if it wasn't for Unions, the amount you were paid for sitting on your fat ass would have been a mere fraction of what you got. You should go to your nearest church and light a candle to the Union for all the raises and COLA adjustments you received throughout your career!

 

[Kulindahr]

A "fair" wage is whatever the market will bare, and up to this point with "illegal immigrants" flooding the workforce, and products being sold in bulk over the item itself, and depressed wages because of all of the above to "remain competitive in a global economy," we can blame the Labor Unions?

That's "what the market will bear", as in carry.

Question are not some Japanese cars manufactured here and the money sent to Japan?

Many.

You were in management, as was I ..... if it wasn't for Unions, the amount you were paid for sitting on your fat ass would have been a mere fraction of what you got. You should go to your nearest church and light a candle to the Union for all the raises and COLA adjustments you received throughout your career!

How exactly do unions increase management salaries?

I curse COLA adjustments, because they're not what they say they are: when the figure awarded is more than the actual amount of the rise in cost of living, what they really are is a "Cost Of Luxury Award".

 

[smelter]

How exactly do unions increase management salaries?

Its simple .... Management salaries were always keyed off the Union wage scale. The salaried workers got a bump and a little more everytime the Union negotiated an increase, in order to stay competitive.

I curse COLA adjustments, because they're not what they say they are: when the figure awarded is more than the actual amount of the rise in cost of living, what they really are is a "Cost Of Luxury Award".

COLA amounts were based on CPI calculations. If you thought they were incorrect, you should have written to your Congressman.

 

[Centexfarmer]

That's "what the market will bear", as in carry.



Many.



How exactly do unions increase management salaries?

I curse COLA adjustments, because they're not what they say they are: when the figure awarded is more than the actual amount of the rise in cost of living, what they really are is a "Cost Of Luxury Award".

You corrected me, now please allow me to correct you:

COLA = Cost Of Living Adjustment/Allowance.

Compared to CEO compensation, adjusted for wages, COLA hardly made any difference, and was hardly FAIR.

So if someone were receiving ANY "luxury" it was the CEO's who were compensated far more than what COLA would have allowed.

 

[Kulindahr]

You corrected me, now please allow me to correct you:

COLA = Cost Of Living Adjustment/Allowance.

Compared to CEO compensation, adjusted for wages, COLA hardly made any difference, and was hardly FAIR.

So if someone were receiving ANY "luxury" it was the CEO's who were compensated far more than what COLA would have allowed.

I know what it officially stands for.

Look, I once got a 10% COLA, when I was getting $900/mo. What I was getting increased all of $90/mo. There were people in the same outfit, who got the same 10% adjustment, who were getting $4000/mo, so they were suddenly getting $400 extra per month.

Now, if $90/mo covered my increased cost of living, then $90/mo would cover theirs. The other $310 is not for necessities, so it's for luxuries.

 

[Kulindahr]

So, if it is a percentage, then it should be a percentage of the lowest income earner and whatever that dollar amount is fixed for all? Or do you want a graduated COLA?

The increase in the cost of living is a flat figure, not a percentage. It should be awarded as whatever that figure is.

 

[smelter]

The other $310 is not for necessities, so it's for luxuries.

You just needed to wait patiently until his $310 trickled down [STRIKE]on[/STRIKE] to you. Its called Reaganomics!
I suggest you listen to the Sean Hannity radio show, he explains it every fifteen minutes or so.

 

[HenryReardon]

lol, more making it up as you go along.

Really? I guess you haven't read the headlines that have accompanied every large strike for the last few decades.

 

[HenryReardon]

You were in management, as was I ..... if it wasn't for Unions, the amount you were paid for sitting on your fat ass would have been a mere fraction of what you got. You should go to your nearest church and light a candle to the Union for all the raises and COLA adjustments you received throughout your career!

Not once in my entire working life did I ever receive a COLA adjustment.
I 'sat on my fat ass' as you put it for fifty or sometimes sixty hours a week.
Compensation in our city had nothing to do with unions.

 

[smelter]

Not once in my entire working life did I ever receive a COLA adjustment.
I 'sat on my fat ass' as you put it for fifty or sometimes sixty hours a week.
Compensation in our city had nothing to do with unions.

Then I apologize for my mischaracterization. It is true however that salaries in non-union companies, in order to attract talented people, had to be competitive with those who did. Directly or indirectly, your compensation and benefit package was affected by the success of Union negotiations.

.... btw, welcome to the club re hours per week. 50 or 60 hours is not unusual. If you own a business yourself that is probably the minimum investment of time spent on the job.

 

[Kulindahr]

You just needed to wait patiently until his $310 trickled down [STRIKE]on[/STRIKE] to you. Its called Reaganomics!
I suggest you listen to the Sean Hannity radio show, he explains it every fifteen minutes or so.

But Reaganomics dealt with statistics; there were no promises to individuals.

ROFL! Ford's operations in Brazil are providing a good wage? Is that why that other old queen in here is praising Ford in Brazil?

Ah, Kulin beith a comic. I didn't know you had it in ya, kid.

Compared to the wages available in that Brazilian state before Ford got there, yes, Ford pays a good wage. When we look at those wages, we're aghast at how low they are, but given economic situations there, they're good wages -- the same as Nike's few-dollars/hr wages in southeast Asia, which look pitiful to us, but over there were twice or more the going rate for such work.

 

[smelter]

But Reaganomics dealt with statistics; there were no promises to individuals.

I beg to differ! There was an implied promise to poor individuals that if rich individuals had more money through reduced taxes, it would be better for them also. Money would trickle down* to the the lower classes through their spending, increased investments and resultant job creation.

The only problem was, the rich kept the bulk of it!

* kinda like when someone pisses on your shoes and tries to convince you its raining

 

[tooliso]

I have only skimmed over this post/argument, so forgive me if I say anything that has already been said but concerning the question "Why Bail out US Auto Manufacturers", you also need to look at it from a wider perspective. The majority of auto-manufacturers are linked in some way (I apologise if some of you havent heard about the manufacturers I am about to mention).

If the big three go under, they threaten to drag with them amongst other, Vauxhall, Saab, Opel, Fiat (as well as Lancia and Maserati under the Fiat umbrella), Volvo, Aston Martin and Mazda as well as there own branded divisions in many other countries. So if they dont get bailed out then you immediately have the threat of half the worlds car manufacturers going with them. Hence the bailout has worldwide effects.

 

[Kulindahr]

^ Thanks.
I was wondering the other day how interlocked these companies are, trying to remember who's bought who, who makes some vehicles for who, etc. I know Mitsubishi used to be linked to Dodge, and Chrysler was owned by a foreign outfit, but that's all I could think of.

 

[tooliso]

Mitsubishi was linked to Daimler Chrysler but it isnt anymore, I dont think they are linked to Mercedes Benz anymore either. Ford just got rid of Jaguar and Land Rover and gained FIAT and GM just cut ties with Isuzu

 

[NickCole]

^^ DaimlerChrysler was formed in 1998 when Daimler-Benz merged with Chrysler. In 2007 DaimlerChrysler sold Chrysler to a private equity firm and then renamed itself Daimler AG. Daimler AG produces Mercedes-Benz and Freightliner and a few other brands.

And since you mention Ford ... although the bailout is always referred to bailing out the Big 3, Ford is actually not in the dire trouble that Chrysler and GM are.

 

[Kulindahr]

Considering that Ford has done better... this seems appropriate:

A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (GM) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River. Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.

Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing.

Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing. Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents, and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners, and free pens for the rower.. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes, and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India .

Sadly.............. The End.

(source unknown)

 

[JayHawk]

I have read a lot since I last visited and that shit you just posted nails it on the head Kuli-o. Might I add an ad:

 

[radioian]

Give it 6 or 7 years and you will all be driving Eastern cars like Hyundais and Kias.........we laughed at them as well, here in the UK a few years ago.............now, even our Police force drive around in Volvos and other foriegn motors.......Yours will too, in a couple of years time--you may bthink "It will NEVER happen!"..........but it will.