Why do bad things happen to good people?

[Orderedchaos]

If this is god's work than is god not an artist?

Any artist can visualize his creation, but the problem is choice. If there exists choice, predestination is a logical fallacy.

'God knows everything' is a logical fallacy. The "future" is a neat little word based on a concept that works on probability. It does not exist. There is only what we know that applies to the future. The sun rose, the sun has risen for an immense amount of permutations, the sun will most likely rise tomorrow. It still might not.

People are interesting little things, we think a number is "cursed" if it does not come up in a random drawing. We think our "luck" increases even if our odds dont (deal or no deal is a great example of "blessed" numbers). We may even not know the odds but we have FAITH!

Knowledge comes in 3 categories. Things we -humanity- know. Things we can know. And things we can never know. Maybe god can know more than we can know.

We are incredibly egotistical creatures, thinking we alone can tip the planet into firey death. We used to think we were the center of the universe. Many think our big bang is the only 'universe'. What exists beyond? Can our tiny singularity turned bloom of life not be one in a sea of endless big bangs in the space between space?

We are just lucky is why we love ourselves so much. Life has favored us. We inherited this planet and it is astoundingly perfect for life to exist. We still havent been wiped out by a gamma ray burst. We have perfectly formed magnetic poles. It is truly a wonderful coincidence were alive. But back to probability, such is winning the lottery.

So lets enjoy this lottery we've won. Good and bad are just words, things happen to people as they must have happened because all the swings and machinations of our physical world happened to collide with a creature capable of conscious choice. Some are born deformed. Some are born with horrible mental anxiety that leads them to kill, rape, insult, and hate our fellow man. These are just quirks and like any work of art, undesirable to some, fortuitous to others. Its all about reference frames. Even everything in physics works the same way. Reference. God is an artist, with all his knowledge it must all be beautiful for him regardless of how hard it is for us, and it will go on beyond our trivial lifetimes.

Our purpose is to be beautiful and further the cause of beauty. Whatever that means, make more beauty, encourage beauty, teach others so as to foster beauty. Love exists as an offshoot of it, and gives us tangible feelings. It must certainly make God feel something too. Everytime someone is murdered he frowns, looks at what he is made, and must still hope it comes out looking good. The minute it doesnt is the moment he erases this part of his canvas to try again, but as long as something still is worthy about it, he will let it ride. And we will live on, so it is our duty to be as beautiful as possible and appreciate all facets of what is desirable, looks, personality, and being considerate of the unfortunate martyrs of God's mission. We, despite our instincts, must love and care for serial rapists and murders by housing them apart of general people for their whole lives. It is not our place to take another's life. They were born and were meant to live, for God's sake.

Lets just smile that our number has come up and be happy we called 'heads' when it has fallen in our favor as such.

 

[Jacquemar]

I think you're way off base in your assumptions about atheism.

As for your title question - Why do bad things happen to good people? - there is a much simpler explanation, though one that goes against the grain of many theists.

You don't matter.​

Shocking, isn't it? It goes against the grain of conventional Judeo-Christian though, and it isn't particularly flattering. But we human beings live for such a short time, in universal terms, that we may as well not exist. An immortal being like a "god" could blink an eye and miss whole generations. Current population of the planet is about 6,878,000,000 people - puts one's individual existence in perspective!

You don't matter.​

Some bad things - and some good things - will happen to you because of planning, or how you structured your life, or the people you brought into your life. Being irrelevant on a universal scale does not mean you are insignificant to those around you, or that your life is totally out of your control.

Most bad things, and most good things, however, are completely random. You and I have nothing to do with earthquakes, or bad storms, or even getting laid off or a friend getting hit by a drunk driver. You likely got a promotion for doing a good job; you may find a new job by literally being at the right place at the right time - random chance.

You don't matter.​

Even is there is(are) a God(or gods), it is hubris to think any individual human is so important in the grand scheme of things that external events have anything to do with us.

Human should take personal pride in their accomplishments, and personal blame for their failures. That is the adult thing to do. Beyond that, there is no more need to thank some external influence for random "good things" than there is need to blame said influence for "bad things". They are just random, and have nothing to do with us.

Sometimes the simplest answers hold the most truth. They are elegant, don't require intense rationalisation to explain contradictions, and don't cause cognitive dissonance.

I REALLY like this response. Of course I didn't read any of what Kallipolis wrote, other than what was quoted, (he's one of those people I have on "ignore,") but I REALLY like this response.

 

[kallipolis]

I REALLY like this response. Of course I didn't read any of what Kallipolis wrote, other than what was quoted, (he's one of those people I have on "ignore,") but I REALLY like this response.

Surely, I can't be that effective? And, who would believe you?

 

[kallipolis]

Any artist can visualize his creation, but the problem is choice. If there exists choice, predestination is a logical fallacy.

That God offers each human person, choice it can be concluded that predestination is a redundant thought.

Randomness has a particular endearing ring for those who live in chaos, calculated to prove to them that their chaotic life is sufficient proof that chaos is the norm for the rest of the human species.

Inadequate sightedness can be addressed, even corrected when grasping the hand of God.

Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path.~Psalm 119:105

 

[marqau]

Woofy's "you don't matter" response is reductionist and bleak, but yes, possibly rational. There is no point in arguing with such a barren way of seeing life. God may be fictional, but who wants to live in a world without fiction.

 

[marqau]

Looking at the world honestly and looking at the world factually are completely different things. The only place "facts" occur is in individual minds.

"there is dishonesty in any mind which demands the reality occur in a specific way"

This is a quote from a book on Buddhist meditation I read in my teens; Sujata's "Beginning to See". "Dishonesty" is probably too strong a word. It's more like delusion.

But if you want to believe in the existence of an objective reality (including objective facts) that's fine by me. I have no objection to other people's religious beliefs.

 

[bankside]

"there is dishonesty in any mind which demands the reality occur in a specific way"

This is a quote from a book on Buddhist meditation I read in my teens; Sujata's "Beginning to See". "Dishonesty" is probably too strong a word. It's more like delusion.

This is not a quote about the lack of an objective perceivable reality; this is a quote about the pitfalls of assuming reality must conform to our imaginations and intuitions.

…oh, and fiction is no less beautiful when we acknowledge it as "pretend."

 

[kallipolis]

This is not a quote about the lack of an objective perceivable reality; this is a quote about the pitfalls of assuming reality must conform to our imaginations and intuitions.

…oh, and fiction is no less beautiful when we acknowledge it as "pretend."

You, and me agree. How's that for a rare event?

 

[levenshulme31]

So many ideas in this thread to ponder on.

I am firmly of the belief that, cosmologically, we exist by random chance and our existence will come and go and the rest of the universe will care not a jot.

Notions of good and evil have been invented by people to rationalise the 'good' or 'bad' things which happen as a matter of course.

'Good' can come out of 'evil' - if an arsonist starts a forest fire, it may do massive amounts of damage - but there are certain trees which cannot reproduce without the occurrence of forest fires. Or what about cases where someone got stabbed by a mugger which meant that the doctors treating the stab wound found the tumour which would otherwise have killed them? Conversely, you could take pity on a homeless person sat by the road and give him $50. If he then gets up runs across the road to buy food but gets hit by a truck and killed is that his fault, your fault, the truck driver's fault or just an unfortunate turn of events?

We are rightly moved by stories of child abuse such as 5 year old Jeffrey starved to death by neglectful grandparents in Canada, but at the same time we accept as a sad fact of life the death by starvation of thousands of Jeffreys in the third world even though the world has more than enough food to feed everyone.

It is the absurdist interpretation of good and evil which can have the most unforeseen consequenses. I am sure that the fundamentally religious parents who beat their children into obedience or reject them for being gay, or inflict psychological (or physical) torture on those they believe are possessed think they are doing good. I can't say that I agree.

Anyway, I'm rambling now and I need to go out. Shit happens. We may care but the universe does not.

 

[zoltanspawn]

"there is dishonesty in any mind which demands the reality occur in a specific way"

This is a quote from a book on Buddhist meditation I read in my teens; Sujata's "Beginning to See". "Dishonesty" is probably too strong a word. It's more like delusion.

But if you want to believe in the existence of an objective reality...

This is not a quote about the lack of an objective perceivable reality; this is a quote about the pitfalls of assuming reality must conform to our imaginations and intuitions.

I haven't read Sujata, but it's remarkable that each of you interprets the quote in such a pointedly different manner. Marqau, that it's a criticism of objective perception, and Bankside that it's a criticism of subjective perception. If either of you could throw more light on Sujata's work...

…oh, and fiction is no less beautiful when we acknowledge it as "pretend."

You, and me agree. How's that for a rare event?

Consensus!? We can't have that. Let me disagree a little.

There are certainly ways in which fiction is made less beautiful by the acknowledgement that it's pretend. This is because when a story has great significance or is being told superbly, we cease distinguishing between fact and fancy and simply enjoy literature for what it is; sometimes, this is called suspension of disbelief, and many would compliment a work which achieved such suspension. On the other hand, 'acknowledging the pretend' isn't always handled in such a way that the suspension of disbelief remains intact; the effect and power of fiction can easily be diminished by dismissive, untimely or contemptuous acknowledgements.

 

[bankside]

You, and me agree. How's that for a rare event?

I don't at all mind celebrating a rare and fascinating event. It's kind of like Halley's Comet has come around or something.

 

[bankside]

Consensus!? We can't have that. Let me disagree a little.

There are certainly ways in which fiction is made less beautiful by the acknowledgement that it's pretend. This is because when a story has great significance or is being told superbly, we cease distinguishing between fact and fancy and simply enjoy literature for what it is; sometimes, this is called suspension of disbelief, and many would compliment a work which achieved such suspension. On the other hand, 'acknowledging the pretend' isn't always handled in such a way that the suspension of disbelief remains intact; the effect and power of fiction can easily be diminished by dismissive, untimely or contemptuous acknowledgements.

Even Shakespeare broke the fourth wall, apparently with no ill effects. I think that the surrender of disbelief allows the observer to participate in the art without the risk of feeling duped. One can dwell in wonder without needing to inhibit the faculties of critical thought.

 

[zoltanspawn]

Even Shakespeare broke the fourth wall, apparently with no ill effects. I think that the surrender of disbelief allows the observer to participate in the art without the risk of feeling duped. One can dwell in wonder without needing to inhibit the faculties of critical thought.

When Shakespeare busted out his asides, he didn't call his entire play a fraud and dismiss the production. He wasn't acknowledging the fictiveness of his work contemptuously; and so the effect of his art wasn't broken, it was elaborated on. Too often, when people say that something is untrue, they are chiefly saying it's unworthy, counterfeit, useless, so on and so forth.

Insofar as one is able to enjoy their imagination without contempt, one can dwell in wonder without needing to inhibit critical thought. That often seems to be beyond the grasp of many.