Why do liberal SJWs say nothing about the burqa?

[Thad1527]

Maybe I am thinking about the chadoor. Is there much difference?

 

[Zeno Lorea]

Maybe I am thinking about the chadoor. Is there much difference?

About the same difference as between shouting "Peekaboo!" and a gang rape.

 

[Telstra]

In the future when there are no burqa,
people look back and say how stupid our culture is covering up faces ....

 

[bankside]

All have elected to follow the teachings of their religion, yet we debate none of it as the question of whether they will be allowed.

We certainly debate the clothing of Sikh men. When you have a mandatory helmet law to stop motorcyclists from getting really expensive brain damage, what do you do with someone who prefers his religion to his wellbeing? And we debate it in public life too. Should someone be allowed to serve the egalitarian unbiased state, while wearing symbols that may not just proclaim a faith, but might proclaim a faith whose tenets are hostile to the community being served.

If a Sikh police officer can come to my house wearing his statement of faith on his head, not long after Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti used his leadership position within Sikhism to condemn homosexuality, why should I take that officer seriously as a neutral unbiased guarantor of my rights?

I truly believe polygamy could not be outlawed today

Really?

Maybe. But the reason governments have weddings in the first place has to be because a public interest is advanced. If polygamists can show it's good for all involved, and good for society, they'll probably win. If they can show that, they probably should win. I'm not sure it's that obvious though. We have a breakaway Mormon sect in Bountiful BC, and I think they would struggle to show that polygamy, at least the way they do it, is not a bizarre limiting practice, that's largely creepy and predatory toward young women, with far-reaching consequences for social disruption and disharmony. Those are the kinds of effects that add up to a "legitimate state interest" in banning something, even in a free and open society.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

In the future when there are no burqa,
people look back and say how stupid our culture is covering up faces ....

Few of us have any qualms about stating how stupid the West was in the Dark Ages. I don't see why we shouldn't dare to be equally sceptical about similarly ridiculous creeds.

 

[Latimer]

More and more I see a variety of traditional Islamic clothing in my Los Angeles neighborhood--Beverly Hills and Westwood--from headscarves to burqas. I was in downtown Beverly Hills yesterday on North Beverly and North Rodeo Drives and very many of the women wore head coverings of one sort or another and some were in burqas. This is more than I ever see in London (perhaps I'm simply not in the right--Knightsbridge?--neighborhoods.)

Late summer has seen a great number of Gulf state visitors in Beverly Hills. Last weekend my partner and dined in a café on a plaza in Beverly Hills; we looked out on passeggiata of sorts of young Arabs--largely good-looking and beautifully dressed. Up to half of the women wore head-coverings. The whole experience was fascinating--but strange to feel an outsider in one's own town.
Some evenings North Rodeo, Beverly and Canon Drives are largely Arab, while South Beverly is entirely white and Persian. Persians (largely Jewish) have been here long enough that they're part of the landscape. A couple of my doctors are Persian, and my gym is about 30%.

I find it particularly jarring to see a Muslim couple where the husband is wearing a t-shirt and shorts and the wife is wearing a burqa or some other sort of hijab. I see this a lot around here. It seems that if the wife is wearing traditional dress, the husband should also, or at least dress more formally.

 

[peeonme]

The great thing about America is that you can be exposed to different ways of life, yes the Moslem women might adhere to traditional garb.
But, how many generations will that last through? The daughters and grand daughters will likely seek liberty. We shouldn't force liberty
on anyone, then it is no longer liberty.

 

[Kahaih]

The great thing about America is that you can be exposed to different ways of life, yes the Moslem women might adhere to traditional garb.
But, how many generations will that last through? The daughters and grand daughters will likely seek liberty. We shouldn't force liberty
on anyone, then it is no longer liberty.

But, whose liberty are you concerned about, the liberty of the wife, or the liberty of the husband?

'Liberty and justice for all' should include the wife – today, not tomorrow or in a few generations.

 

[peeonme]

But, whose liberty are you concerned about, the liberty of the wife, or the liberty of the husband?

'Liberty and justice for all' should include the wife – today, not tomorrow or in a few generations.

A person has to understand what liberty is and the meaning of it. Congress can not make a law to prevent those who in their own mind are freely following restrictive religious practices. If a woman should choose to stop wearing this garb, her husband or clergy would be in violation of the law if they forced her to wear it.

Many people follow customs from their homelands after coming to America, some cling to traditions and find comfort in them, who are we to judge?

 

[Kahaih]

On the other hand, nuns elect to wear very restrictive clothing that DOES cover all except their faces, so a similar religious statement.

Honestly, I can't remember the last time I saw a nun wearing a full habit. A small hat/bonnet from time to time, but even those are rare, these days. Nuns and communities spoke up/discussed their feelings in regards to having to wear habits, and now they don't wear them.

And Amish women and Hutterites and Mennonites similarly demand their adherents who are women dress plainly in a restrictive code.

A few days ago I mentioned seeing young Amish people on facebook. There are quite a few of these young people who are giving up the old customs and learning to like the 'outside' world. Before smartphones, many of these people would have never known much about the world outside of their sects. They only know more, now, because they have other types of people to talk to. They now have the chance to express their dislikes and concerns and are better equipped to live how they choose.

Pentecostal women were expected to never wear cosmetics and were expected to not ever cut their hair.

You said 'were' twice. Does that mean that these customs are now behind them? Was it due to discussions/questioning? I'll bet it was.

All have elected to follow the teachings of their religion, yet we debate none of it as the question of whether they will be allowed.

Maybe we, as in JUBbers in Hot Topics, haven't discussed these people or customs, but clearly the right people have and probably still do.

 

[Telstra]

A person has to understand what liberty is and the meaning of it. Congress can not make a law to prevent those who in their own mind are freely following restrictive religious practices. If a woman should choose to stop wearing this garb, her husband or clergy would be in violation of the law if they forced her to wear it.

Many people follow customs from their homelands after coming to America, some cling to traditions and find comfort in them, who are we to judge?

Forced by culture or peer pressure is NOT liberty

 

[Zeno Lorea]

A person has to understand what liberty is and the meaning of it. Congress can not make a law to prevent those who in their own mind are freely following restrictive religious practices. If a woman should choose to stop wearing this garb, her husband or clergy would be in violation of the law if they forced her to wear it.

A lot of those women are so indoctrinated, and so ill-informed, they indeed haven't got the faintest clue what freedom is. And even if they did, they wouldn't know how to take their constitutional freedom and use it without losing everything they have.

So yes, we have the right to judge, or at least to investigate critically. These women are our fellow humans, not pets.

 

[Latimer]

Ultra Orthodox Jewish women cover their hair, often by wearing wigs. They also dress very modestly, often with long skirts.

 

[bankside]

Ultra Orthodox Jewish women cover their hair, often by wearing wigs. They also dress very modestly, often with long skirts.

I have to say how silly I think it is to cover your hair, out of modesty, with fake hair that looks like immodest real hair. It's like saying you should't be naked due to modesty, but the way to deal with it is wear one of those t-shirts with the naked torso printed in it.

Anyway pretty sure "thinking this is silly" is about as far as I can take it in a free country. I can't imagine what kind of a miserable police state it would be, if we sent the army out to rip the wigs off orthodox women. It's outrageous!

 

[FootballJersey]

Hey there, one of the 'Liberal SJWs' here!

I personally don't believe the women (or really, people in general regardless of their genders, I guess) should be forced to wear the burqa if the culture/religion think/believe the women should... however, some people also need to realize that there's some who chose to wear the burqa too because it made them feel secure (like with hijab, turban, etc) or just as a fashion statememt and NOT because of the religion or culture.

Also... you did brand all the 'Islam' people as bad and imply that ANY of them would throw you off the cliff for being a gay man so in that case, I have the right to call you islamophobic because you are in the original post... it's funny because all Muslim people I've met so far are actually very friendly and they're extremely open-minded about some other people including myself being gay unlike most so-called 'Christians' who preach tolerate yet they talk about how it's ok to rape women and that they should bring the gun to murder the gay people and justify about how 'God' would be happy with them murdering the gay people due to the 'Christianity'. I am curious, why aren't you speaking out against those kind of people? Why only focus on the Islamic people and try to brand ALL of them as 'bad'?

That is what really irk me about the islamophobic people, they try to use terms like 'liberal SJWs' to justify their islamophobic-ness just because they don't like how several Muslims were treating the women like this and so on? Don't get my wrong, I'm not too fond of Islam/Muslims as well but yeeeah... you're taking this case to the extreme.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

Ultra Orthodox Jewish women cover their hair, often by wearing wigs. They also dress very modestly, often with long skirts.

As a native of Antwerp, Belgium, I can assure you that Hassidic women (and men, for that matter) are equally oppressed.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

Also... you did brand all the 'Islam' people as bad and imply that ANY of them would throw you off the cliff for being a gay man so in that case, I have the right to call you islamophobic because you are in the original post... it's funny because all Muslim people I've met so far are actually very friendly and they're extremely open-minded about some other people including myself being gay unlike most so-called 'Christians' who preach tolerate yet they talk about how it's ok to rape women and that they should bring the gun to murder the gay people and justify about how 'God' would be happy with them murdering the gay people due to the 'Christianity'. I am curious, why aren't you speaking out against those kind of people? Why only focus on the Islamic people and try to brand ALL of them as 'bad'?

That is what really irk me about the islamophobic people, they try to use terms like 'liberal SJWs' to justify their islamophobic-ness just because they don't like how several Muslims were treating the women like this and so on? Don't get my wrong, I'm not too fond of Islam/Muslims as well but yeeeah... you're taking this case to the extreme.

We don't brand all "islam people" as bad. We do believe that islam in se is bad. As is biblical christianity, indeed.

The muslims you've met obviously aren't "real" muslims according to those who do consider themselves "real" muslims, because if you follow the teachings of the Prophet (peace be upon his victims) then you don't hang out with gays, you stone them. By contrast, the chrissies you've met are "real" chrissies who follow the teachings of Leviticus literally.

Most of us actually do criticize those christians as much as we do fundamentalist muzzies. But hey, living in Marrakesh, I am not confronted with with and oppressed by crazy evangelicals as much as you may think.

Finally, I am shocked by your statement that you are "not too fond of Islam/Muslims as well". I am very fond of lots of muslims, christians, and mormons in my family and environment. I just hate their fascist ideologies. I am indeed quite fascistophobic.

 

[guyfromNY]

I am usually one who is all for freedom of expression, but when I am in shoprite and I see a woman in a black burqa with only little slits cut out for the eyes, it really does make me feel a bit uneasy. What is even more troubling about it is the fact that she is usually walking with children and a husband who are dressed in completely american attire. On 9/11, America was given a crash course on radical islam and the burqa played a very large part in that. I don't know if this makes me bigoted, but it's just the way I feel..

 

[peeonme]

I am usually one who is all for freedom of expression, but when I am in shoprite and I see a woman in a black burqa with only little slits cut out for the eyes, it really does make me feel a bit uneasy. What is even more troubling about it is the fact that she is usually walking with children and a husband who are dressed in completely american attire. On 9/11, America was given a crash course on radical islam and the burqa played a very large part in that. I don't know if this makes me bigoted, but it's just the way I feel..

Seems like it would be easy to be a cross dresser?

 

[luckynumbah7]

Seems like it would be easy to be a cross dresser?

You'd think so, but there's hundreds of little behaviors that make people suspicious, and quite a few of those are body language. Depends a lot on culture and social structure. A change of clothing isn't going to help that. Whenever I notice someone in a burqa she's doing normal shit everyone else does and her husband (is he's around) generally has the same level of religious observance.