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Why do people keep complaining about Windows Vista?

Em...that was my point when I said "GM has a responsibility at the point of sale to put tyres on their cars that aren't fatally flawed so as to cause the deaths of people and that's it".

#-o

you point was that a company has no responsibility to the public. my point was that gm would share some of the blame if it had done something wrong. firestone is a company that did do something wrong; which means it failed to live up to its responsibility

:D

QED :=D:

I worked for MS as a software tester on IE4 and they paid an absolute fortune to several companies with thousands of people testing it on numerous platforms. Often outsourced companies would sign off something as bug-free when it wasn't. They did their best. They apply very high standards just as do many other software companies who ship out far inferior products.

as you said in your next point give me proof.

(*8*)

But transition effects for Windows have been around for ages as well - show me proof that they were invented for, and applied to, Linux before anything else - there isn't any - like much software the idea wasn't OS specific - they were thought of independently of OSes and then coded for the relevant platforms.

you need to look a little harder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xgl

:)

for the record: i don't doubt that microsoft has created some transition effects like i don't doubt that they've copied a few as well.

:confused:

You're being a drama queen - considering the nature this forum that's probably acceptable.

:king:

or nihil.... i prefer nihil because it's microsoft related.

;)

Boo hoo - there's a lesson you need to learn Davy - the world isn't fair. If you can't afford $30 for a bottle of JD you don't have a right to demand that it be sold cheaper - buy a generic brand. If you have no money you have no JD but you could always steal it and risk the consequences if you're caught.

:-({|=

I didn't need to buy a whole new system to run Vista and my specs are over a year old which is a long time in computer terms.

:D

boo hoo? what kind of a student are you? the only kind of students i know what money like that to burn are the kind who have mommies and daddies to pay for everything. unfortunately, the rest of us don't have such parents.

besides, it's not like a bottle of jack daniels. a bottle of jack daniels is something that's nice, but not necessary. using microsoft isn't nice, but it's VERY necessary for many reasons and that's why microsoft has such a bad rap.

too many people are dependent on microsoft and many more have to adapt to these other people. microsoft knows this, but instead of making the transition to bigger and better easier; they're more interested in making profits.

there's no need to be cut throat when you're the only one in the business.

How is it a good thing when you can't play DVDs or listen to music on your PC? Unless you've ripped them all (after you've broken DRM) - and by doing so you've broken the law and could be prosecuted (not that I give a toss about that). Alternatives are great as long as there's compatibility dude.

#-o

compability's always there, thank god. we just have to struggle with the guarded secret formats that some companies like to use as their source of power.

..|

MS didn't invent DRM dude - they simply implemented it (under threat from Hollywood et al I may add).

so.. they were only following orders? if that didn't work for the nazi soldiers why should it work for microsoft. worse even, microsoft is in a position of money and influence where those soldiers weren't so much.

(*8*)

Why are Macs getting more powerful?

You need to remember that there are a huge number of people who are very happy with more powerful PCs - there are Autocad people, sound and video people, gamers etc. who are all delighted to have more powerful PCs. You also have to remember than PC game manufacturers are also a big part of the loop and many graphics card companies design for the games and not the OS - they drive the upgrading of hardware too.

:gogirl:

upgrading is an inevitable and good thing. it would be a much better thing if people wanted greater efficiency along with more power.

:D

Now! This shows that you don't understand business. They can't release details of their hardware because competitors can use that info to either copy or better the product. It's bad enough that some companies have been caught trying to reverse engineer hardware but it you give them more info you may as well just show them a video on how you made the product. Competition is deadly and fierce and you can't give the others any opportunity regardless of how that makes you look. Having said that I've found Intel absolutely brilliant in providing drivers and serious technical data for their hardware.

..|

i think this shows you don't understand how this business really works or how business fosters enmity with the public.

1. the technical details that these companies need to release to create drivers is nowhere near enough information for competitors to use to steal hardware designs

2. the technical designs aren't secret anyways because patents must be published for their products and
2a. even beyond that, most computer hardware manufacturers either rely on foundries to make their products which means their designs aren't unique or
2b. an enormous majority of hardware manufacturers just use chips from other manufacturers to make their hardware.

3. companies give out theses specs anyways while other completely refuse to. like you said, intel is very good at it and so is atheros, but broadcom refuses to give out ANYTHING even though all three companies make wireless network cards.

:gogirl:
 
I never said that they had NO responsibility.

that's correct, you only said:

noelie said:
Microsoft can do whatever it likes and owes us nothing really.

and i maintain that they do owe us responsibility. they have to ernestly behave in a manner that will allow information techology to become available to everyone.

So do you Davy.

I asked you "show me proof that they were invented for, and applied to, Linux before anything else" and you didn't.

The history of Xgl is that it originated as a research project to create 'windows' on a Vax system, OpenVMS, then Sun systems, then other Unix and Unix-like systems (including Linux) and almost parallel to that we had Windows which looked like X but wasn't (copied or otherwise whatever). Xgl wasn't fully demonstrated until 2006 with Novell according to your Wiki article.

Also from your Wiki article: "but for a long time, until January 2, 2006 most development of Xgl was done behind closed doors
"

yes, up until last year, novell owned xgl so all development was done by novell, but i promise you it was worked on before anyone heard of vista (or longhorn).

besides, xgl was only one example, not the end all of examples.

btw, something tells me we're arguing different things here. i get the impression that you think i believe windows originated various transition effects. i agree that they did, but i also believe that they did copy some, which is a good thing because that's how industry moves foward. (either that or through innovation).

Microsoft invented it's own version of Windows after Bill Gates saw a Mac - even if he copied the idea MS still created their own version from scratch and the first independent version of Microsoft Windows, version 1.0 was released on November 20, 1985 - 27 years ago!

but there were not transition effects in windows 1.0.

:confused:

I'm on disability allowance Davy - welfare.

If you're so poor then install Ubuntu and OpenOffice - it's all free and there's loads of support both here and on other web sites plus OpenOffice is compatible with MS Office formats (and they're both fantatstic alternatives - I've used them too).

no thanks, i prefer good 'ole fashioned debian.

your casual attitude about giving $150 to an already rich company is at odds with your financial status:
noelie said:
Uh, most people wont buy ultimate, and will be fine with home premium, the upgrade of which only costs $150, which is far less the[y] you would have paid for all the OSX updates...
sic

but, (as i frequently have to say more than once) my point is that the increasing costs of windows is making it more difficult for the end user to have access to a legitimate version of windows.

if windows were more like a bottle of jack daniels, it wouldn't be so bad. bud windows is a very necessary thing among anyone in this country (or any of the other on your side of the pond). not using windows can prevent employment whereas the same isn't true for jack daniels.

As I've already explained - both my XP and Vista installations are pirated as is my Office 2007 - if I can do it so can you and comparing me to the kind who have mommies and daddies to pay for everything is just showing me that you're not making the effort with this debate that I deserve from you.

getting a pirated copy isn't at issue, i would have as much difficulty as you did. what's at issue is its available to the people.

and you'll have to pardon my sense of humor. it can be delightfully inappropriate at times when i let it. i wanted to use the same dismissive attitude you used at spending a mere $150.

Again you fail to understand business. Take a look at the business practices of Enron my dear fellow - the whole point of a monopoly is that they can do whatever they want (within certain legal constraints).

yes, but there isn't a need for it. why gorge your customers when your livelihood is virtually guaranteed for the rest of your life?

Dude I'm getting tired of repeating myself - you don't understand how business works. Comparing this to Nazi soldiers killing Jews is reducing this debate to a level of silliness that I won't partake in.

i'm comparing microsoft's excuse to the nuremburg defense, NOT nazis killing jews. (would it have been better if i said that the japanese forces used the "i was only following orders" defense)?

what was i was doing was showing how truly lame it is for a powerful and rich company to simply say that someone else made me do it.

From your previously quoted Wiki article Davy:

Xgl technology requires good OpenGL performance, along with several unique features of recent 3D cards, and for the most part these can only be accessed using binary-only (proprietary) kernel modules for ATI and NVIDIA cards. There are some open source drivers for these cards but they allow 2D only, or allow primitive OpenGL 3D capabilities. Currently this is a deadlock situation because graphics card manufacturers have stated they have no intention to sponsor fully open source drivers, as this would expose trade secrets about their hardware which they fear their competitors will use against them
.

that's what all the hardware manufacturers that don't what to share their data say, yet some of their competitors are more than happy to help.

either their competitors have lost their minds, or there is some other reason why these hardware manufacturers don't want to share.

Your argument about patents undermines your whole argument - that's what patents are for Davy - to protect manufacturers and their products - it's also referred to as a Mutually Assured Destruction gentleman's agreement because if one manufacturer copies anything of another then it's an open war among them all.

I worked in the European Patent Office in Munich back in the early 90s as well ;)

which is exactly why their architecture is already known to their competitors. they lost absolutely nothing in giving the necessary specs on their products to driver developers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_hardware_and_FOSS

i don't quite understand what you're trying to say with these links. in order:

1. i've already told you that some hardware manufacturers don't like to give info on thier products while some do

2. the two of use already know the difference between open source and closed source

3. the two of us are someone knowledgeable on microsoft's history

4. i've already told you that something is binding the hands of those manufacturers that don't want to release information.

You've been hoisted on your own petard several times young man.

(*8*)

:rolleyes: and now i know how the cowboy felt when he said: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

(*8*)
 
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