Why Do Some White Guys Not Like Me?

[Red Storm]

Hello Silver. Hopefully I can give some pertinent advice, as being a black guy myself, I have dealt with what you have said plenty of times during my short time as an out gay guy.

I believe I'm very fortunate to look the way I do. I have gotten nothing but compliments about my appearance, every I go. I've been called beautiful countless times, really attractive, sexy, handsome, all of the physical compliments there are. And they have come from people of all ethnicities, all nationalities, both genders.

However, I have not let the fact that my appearance has been complimented on cloud my knowledge and realization of the fact that for many of those people, I'd be nothing more than the exotic lay of the day. For even more of those people, I'd be akin to a museum piece "look but don't touch">

For an even smaller sub-set, I wouldn't even be invited in the house, solely because of my skin color and where most of the ethnic heritage is from (I'm also part Seminole and Irish, but African dominates my ethnic lineage). And you know what? That's fine. My family told me from a young age that there'd be times when I'd be treated differently solely because of how I look. With that discrimination, you have to take the bad with the good.

We forget that discrimination is not a wholly negative thing. I'm sure we can all point to times when we've gotten something, or have been able to do something, because we were discriminated FOR, not against. A guy takes us out on a date, pays for everything. Why? He found us attractive, he discriminated FOR us because of our appearance. We do it all the time, but the word discrimination has a pejorative connotation so we use other times to describe what we do, how we act.

From your initial post, I can understand why you'd be upset. I've been in that position countless times. That being said, I think you might have been too hasty to blame race for the reason the guy never called you back. You don't know what might have come up in his life. He might have lost his job, a family member, or met a guy who whisked him away on a jet plane. Those are all uncertainties, just as your race being the factor is.

Maybe he drove off, thought about the date, and just said to himself things didn't mesh. Yes, he kissed you. Yes, he paid for stuff. Yes, he gave off the impression that he was interested in further things. But guess what, you have no idea of his mind-frame before, during, and especially after he dropped you off, and you probably wont. That happens to us all: black, white, purple with spots, short, tall, ugly, sexy. Sometimes, things just happen with the other person, and it's not because of anything about us or we've done, the issue is with them.

Now, onto the race issue. Something I've noticed is that the perception of who constitutes a "black person" in the physical sense is very different because a black person and other ethnicities. I saw your picture, and to me, you're look is not typical of most black people. I would guess you'd have some Latin in you, or (like almost all non-African black people) European heritage. However, for other ethnicities, their conception of a black person is much different than our own, and I've realized this.

No matter how hard you try, no matter how you think, the way that the non-black ethnicities see and view you is going to be that way REGARDLESS of how you think of yourself. You especially have to understand seeing as how you have not done anything with a non-white guy. To put it into a metaphor, you can't go to a Klan meeting and be mad they discriminate and view black people differently.

You'll be ok. This is just one guy in a long list of guys who will be in your life. Like I told my dear friend who was going through a breakup. "Think of all of the guys you have met during the course of your life. Thousands of them, and thousands more will follow. Most of those guys didn't enter your life, a few did, and even a smaller few made an impact. Your ex made an impact, both good and bad. But guess what? In the long line of guys you'll meet, straight or gay, he was just another guy. Yes, you spent a bit more time with him than most, but at the end of the day, you'll meet thousands more"

Look at things under that prism, and a lot of the emotional anguish you put yourself through will go away, I'm sure of it.

happened to come in an check out this thread and what a great post this is. thanks for sharing.

 

[unloadonme]

Hey, I'm white ... I think you are gorgeous and would go out with you in a heartbeat!

Me too.

 

[MorrisseyX]

I disagree with the statement that sexual attraction is just based on a sexual preference.I think it is much deeper than that. In the gay culture, is racist and the issue of racism especially in the gay male community is bubbling under the surface. People just don't want to talk about it for some reason.

Has no one ever heard of the term sexual organization of the city? The gay culture is focused exclusively on the interests of white gay men while gay men of colour experience abjection and are placed on the margins of queer cultures.

Some gay men of colour compensate with the racism by forming their own bars, clubs, parties groups ect. In fact, in America, black gay pride was created specifically because gay black men wanted to work together to help each other.

Again, I ask the question, what is so special about white men compared to black men? If the OP was honest with himself he would provide an answer.

I mean, wouldn't it be easier to get involved with someone black than someone white? Does the OP really want to do a race 101 seminar with a white guy? I just think it is a lot of heartache. I think despite the attempts people try to be politically correct I personally believe a white man is never going to understand what it means to be a person of colour.

It seems to me the OP has internalized the feelings of self loathing and he just wants to fit into the white gay scene. Of course, everyone has a right to be attracted to who they please. However, gay men of colour MUST recognize the issue of race. You cannot just ignore race and act like as though racism does not exist.


Of course, to a certain extent this is true BUT I think people are really trying to ignore the elephant in the room which is racism in the gay community. The gay culture is obsessed with the white male image.

I think another poster made a solid argument that the gay culture is so Eurocentric. If you pick up the magazines the image that is the gay ideal is the young white gay male. I think some gay men of colour internalize these racist messages.

I have another book suggestion has the OP ever heard of the black gay writer Essex Hemphill? He wrote a wonderful book called "Ceremonies" and he talks about the sexual fetish some white gay men have for black men. Hemphill's book was a really eye opener for me he really dug beneath the surface and he writes so eloquently about the issues the OP is experiencing.

 

[TX-Beau]

Silvirain, since you want opinions from white guys, once more into the breach.

Listen to the black guys. There's only one reason a white guy will fuck a black guy but not date him - racism.

And there's fuck all you can do about that.

But I also have been following your threads and I really don't think that's what's going on. Why? Because no matter the crisis you post about, the root issue is the same. You've come up with a laundry list of why guys won't date you that run the gamut from just wanting sex, to you being black, but the commonality in all of them is that guys won't date you for some external reason.

You don't ever want to talk about what you may be doing and projecting to push guys away, and frankly, who you are is just as important as who he is. If you aren't a viable prospect, people will be fine with fucking you, but won't date you. This has been said a lot, you've been given a lot of good advice from people who were very nice to you on how to deal with that, you don't listen to any of it.

More generally,

I also agree that there's a lot of racism in the gay community, and that it influences who we play with. How can it not.

The other poster was right, no one wants to talk about this.

 

[bankside]

I think my view of "the gay community" is actually very specific, and some people might call it sheltered. But I don't know, or hang out with, or attempt to know, people who would fuck someone black but not date him.

There are lots of gay men who will fuck someone black, or white, or asian, but not date him. I don't get those guys either. It's actually the only thing I don't get. I understand monogamy. I understand open relationships. I understand polyamoury. But I don't get fucking strangers with no strings and no actual relationships in someone's life.

Oh, also as far as "media mind control" and representation, it really depends where you live. I'm in a city of a million people, and I see waaaaaay more black people on TV, news, magazines, movies, than I ever see in real life. But south asians are totally underrepresented. In my daily life, black people are over-represented in media, not under.

 

[BlackMamba47]

I think we have to look at this issue from all sides. There is no silver bullet that will solve the problem that Silvir, along with numerous others, face.

You cannot be a rational, thinking gay man and believe that racism isn't a part of the gay community. It is, and I'm sure that most of us have experienced it, even those who form the racial and ethnic majority. I've experienced it, and in some ways, taken part in it myself.

I readily admit to anyone, and in my city, I'm known for this, but my motto is "Anything but black". Meaning, I can conceivably, in my head, find any man attractive of any racial or ethnic background, save for black guys. I don't know why this is. I used to have crushes on some of my black friends all of the time. But now, especially after coming out, I don't find them at all sexually attractive. Believe me, I've seen some beautiful black men, and we all tend to hang out with one another, but that urge to have relations with them just isn't there.

Does it make me racist? I don't believe so. I'm in no way demeaning black guys. I don't think they lack anything that a person of a different race or ethnicity has. I don't think the other races or ethnicities are superior. I'm merely not sexually attracted to them. However, I am discriminating against black guys, and I admit that. To say that I'm not would be a lie.

While race has undoubtedly played a role in Silvirain troubles, as TX and himself have said, a lot has to do with who you are as a person and how you act. You can be the pastiest, most bland, average white guy on the planet, or the most supermodel beautiful Spanish guy, but at the end of the day, unless a person is a masochist, they don't want to date someone whose personality just isn't compatible with theirs.

The good thing about sex is it's a physical thing. You can have the personality of a pet rock and sex can still happen. You can be a bible-thumping, gays must burn type, and sex can still happen. Why? Because once the act is over, and both guys go their separate ways, that's it. You got your sex in, and that's all you desired from the guy, because his personality, how he acts, made it impossible for you to want anything more from him.

Silvirain, the one thing you can't do is let your introverted nature scare off people. I'm a naturally shy guy myself. I enjoy spending time alone, just left to my own thoughts. However, when I'm out with friends, my tune changes. I'm there to have fun, not to think about what's happening at home, what might happen in the future, why this guy didn't call me back. You're in a social setting, no doubt dropping money in the process. Why go and take your time and money to do something you could do for free, at home, and not risking turning away guys because of your demeanor.

I had a guy who I really liked, and I though liked me, run off with a friend of mine this past Friday, right before St. Pete Pride. I was crushed, I felt betrayed, and I wanted heads to roll. However, I know how my friends get when I'm upset. It makes them upset, and I can't have that. If we're all gonna go and have a good ass time at Pride, I refused to be the one to bring the whole trip down. So I had myself a good ass time, enjoyed my time with my boys, drank plenty, got some play, and clocked in another Pride for the books.

I know this is gonna sound cliche, and I hate cliches, but should the right guy come along, he won't care about whether you're black, whether you're introverted, whether you have some weird fetish or not. He'll like you because of who you are, not your skin color, not your ability to get out of your own head, not how you act in certain situations. For anyone to date anyone, they have to put up with the good AND the bad. If a person can't, then it doesn't matter how hard they try to make it work, it won't.

 

[TX-Beau]

I'm wrong, and TX-Beau is right about me. It's just me. The reason why these guys don't want me in their life, is the same reason why girls don't want me in their's either. I don't think it's because I'm black anymore. I think it's just me. I tend to repel people because I'm so introverted. People misread me and think I'm stuck up and that I'm too good for other people because I don't really talk much. I don't talk a lot because I'm usually just unsure of what to say and I have trouble talking to strangers.

You have to practice. There are people in this world who were just born with social skills, like there are people born great artists, for the rest of us, you have to practice.

STOP TRYING TO FIND A BOYFRIEND. Go try and find some friends instead.

 

[Efrackalecki]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbud8rLejLM[/ame]

Nuff said.

 

[kayman23]

Maybe that's because he knows it's a loaded question with no "right" answer to it, asked by people who are looking for an excuse to antagonize him. If he says no, he'll be criticized for his hypocrisy (rightfully so, mind you), but if he says yes, he'll be told to stay in his own league (thus, limiting his options), as if white guys are too good for him. No matter what he says or doesn't say, the people asking that question already have their minds made up about him and just want confirmation. Even if he tells them what they want to hear, it won't satisfy them. Ultimately, it derails the thread from its initial topic at hand. I could be wrong, but that's usually how these kinds of threads go. The OP brings up a legit topic that offends some people, who then look for ways to undermine him.

As for the topic itself, I agree with BlackAdam's assessment.

Huh? You are thinking too damn hard because that question was not an essay question.

 

[Pyscean]

Hello Silver. Hopefully I can give some pertinent advice, as being a black guy myself, I have dealt with what you have said plenty of times during my short time as an out gay guy.

I believe I'm very fortunate to look the way I do. I have gotten nothing but compliments about my appearance, every I go. I've been called beautiful countless times, really attractive, sexy, handsome, all of the physical compliments there are. And they have come from people of all ethnicities, all nationalities, both genders.

However, I have not let the fact that my appearance has been complimented on cloud my knowledge and realization of the fact that for many of those people, I'd be nothing more than the exotic lay of the day. For even more of those people, I'd be akin to a museum piece "look but don't touch">

For an even smaller sub-set, I wouldn't even be invited in the house, solely because of my skin color and where most of the ethnic heritage is from (I'm also part Seminole and Irish, but African dominates my ethnic lineage). And you know what? That's fine. My family told me from a young age that there'd be times when I'd be treated differently solely because of how I look. With that discrimination, you have to take the bad with the good.

We forget that discrimination is not a wholly negative thing. I'm sure we can all point to times when we've gotten something, or have been able to do something, because we were discriminated FOR, not against. A guy takes us out on a date, pays for everything. Why? He found us attractive, he discriminated FOR us because of our appearance. We do it all the time, but the word discrimination has a pejorative connotation so we use other times to describe what we do, how we act.

From your initial post, I can understand why you'd be upset. I've been in that position countless times. That being said, I think you might have been too hasty to blame race for the reason the guy never called you back. You don't know what might have come up in his life. He might have lost his job, a family member, or met a guy who whisked him away on a jet plane. Those are all uncertainties, just as your race being the factor is.

Maybe he drove off, thought about the date, and just said to himself things didn't mesh. Yes, he kissed you. Yes, he paid for stuff. Yes, he gave off the impression that he was interested in further things. But guess what, you have no idea of his mind-frame before, during, and especially after he dropped you off, and you probably wont. That happens to us all: black, white, purple with spots, short, tall, ugly, sexy. Sometimes, things just happen with the other person, and it's not because of anything about us or we've done, the issue is with them.

Now, onto the race issue. Something I've noticed is that the perception of who constitutes a "black person" in the physical sense is very different because a black person and other ethnicities. I saw your picture, and to me, you're look is not typical of most black people. I would guess you'd have some Latin in you, or (like almost all non-African black people) European heritage. However, for other ethnicities, their conception of a black person is much different than our own, and I've realized this.

No matter how hard you try, no matter how you think, the way that the non-black ethnicities see and view you is going to be that way REGARDLESS of how you think of yourself. You especially have to understand seeing as how you have not done anything with a non-white guy. To put it into a metaphor, you can't go to a Klan meeting and be mad they discriminate and view black people differently.

You'll be ok. This is just one guy in a long list of guys who will be in your life. Like I told my dear friend who was going through a breakup. "Think of all of the guys you have met during the course of your life. Thousands of them, and thousands more will follow. Most of those guys didn't enter your life, a few did, and even a smaller few made an impact. Your ex made an impact, both good and bad. But guess what? In the long line of guys you'll meet, straight or gay, he was just another guy. Yes, you spent a bit more time with him than most, but at the end of the day, you'll meet thousands more"

Look at things under that prism, and a lot of the emotional anguish you put yourself through will go away, I'm sure of it.

<Quoted for truth>...

Couldn't agree. I'm a black male (mixed black/latin - Panamanian/native american-Choctaw) as well and I was in a 15 year relationship with a white guy up until a little over 2 years ago. We simply grew apart and things worked out for the best and we're still the closest of friends. But...being back in the dating pool has been awkward.

As the OP grows, he'll realize that the needles he finds in that haystack that appreciate him for more than just the outside (or some prejudicial perception/notion of what black men are like) are really gems worth keeping as friends, lovers, etc. They're there and he'll eventually meet them.

As for dating other black guys, I'm completely open to it but it seems I tend to attract those black men that have hang ups with their sexuality from my perspective. I've only met two or three other black guys in the last couple of years of dating that I "click" with on that level.