Why do straights hate gays? by Larry Kramer

[shinero]

This is just me wondering, but could it be that straight people give lip service to the gay rights movement because alot of gay people give lip service to the gay rights movement.

Comparing it with the civil rights movement of the 60's, that movement was in the face of America, people turned on their tv's and saw it daily. Maybe we need to take it to the streets and march and march until the gay movement can not be ignored.

I don't know......this is just something that came to my mind.

 

[1st love ron]

I disagree 100%.

There's no way that there are people out there who don't have a gay friend.. even if they dont' know about it.

I'll never believe that.

Or a family member. Did deeply enough and there always is a gay person somewhere within the family (perhaps closested), 100% of the time. If people don't see that then they don't want to see it and are in denial (same applies to the gay friend).

 

[Chalchalero]

Yes, most of your posts seem to stem from emotionalism, rather than a rational objective view point. At least when I gave a purely emotive post I could acknowledge that at the beginning of a comment and give a reason why I was speaking emotively rather than objectively.


Again, you're not reading. This letter posted in this topic was not some "one off" anomally. Have you even read his last non-fiction piece, his latest appearances on things like the Charlie Rose show interviews in recent years?. This has become a trend with him in the past few years, which is why I felt the need to clarify my assessment of his ability to speak for me as a gay man has changed compared to his earlier works and actions.

Because he is a gay icon, or that I hold respect for other things he has done or said, doesn't mean that he's given blanket approval or is not beyond criticism, nor that a criticism somehow diminishes his past achievements as your posts here would seem to imply.

If you want to state that you found this recent commentary and his last book The Tragedy of American Gays effective (beyond expressing his personal frustraions and anger) and a well argued polemic and give reasons for that as to why you have a difference of opinion with me that's fine. But you haven't done that yet. Your opinions have rested solely on his iconagraphic status within the gay community and his past achievements with the implication that to criticize him now is to diminish those achievements, or that because he is an icon and has had achievements that makes this piece effective as well. Those are not valid reasons, in my opinion, for deciding why this piece should or should not be considered effective.

That's not even right! You Knew I was on another thread...

Anyway, I will be honest and state that my admiration for him does come from his history and from the books he wrote in the 70's. I admire the hell out of him and I will defend him until I die, because I honestly and truly believe that we would not be where we are as a gay community without him.

I have not read or even seen him in the last, perhaps five years, but that does not diminish my admiration for him. Both Henry Ford and Thomas Edison were complete loons by the time they died (in fact Ford kept Edison's last breath in a jar until he died - go figure...), but does that take away from what they accomplished? I doubt it.

The ,love and respect I bear this man comes from the fact that GMHC, the Ryan White Act, you name it, these are things which have helped people I know and knew and would never have existed were it not for him. So he can be as hystericl as he wants to be. My opinion of him will never change.

He is iconic for a reason.

 

[Chalchalero]

Again with the unfounded assertions.



If you actually again read what I wrote it is obvious I am familiar with Kramer, I even commented about how the editorial post to open this topic was merely a condensation of his last non-fiction work The Tragedy of American Gays. That over the years my assessment of him as a voice for me as a gay man has changed .

I did offer an opinion upon the content of this commentary and my personal assessment of that content and how it struck me. That is not a commentary about his entire life's involvement in activism, nor him as a person, nor any kind of categorizing of him as an individual over his life time, or his entire body of work. It was a personal critique of this individual commentary, it's content and the manner in which it was written.

I haven't stated he doesn't pose valid questions or raise valid points, nor do I think I have been acting "overly sensistive" with my comments and replies. But again, I personally don't give a twat what your personal assments are about individual members, me, or someone like Kramer as a person. Nor am I interested in defending him or belittling him for reasons of any personal likes or dislikes with regard to him as an individual or his personality.

I am interested in what ideas are posited and how those ideas are expressed as to being effective or not! He was not effective in answering the question he raised in my opinion, he simply made an assertion in answer to his own question that the answer is "they hate us". He made an accussation, he made an unqualified assertion that gave rise to people like PFLAG calling him upon his broad brush, and he still didn't offer a recommendation or an argument to attempt to persuade "these straights" why they should speak up more! His commentary was a "vent" and little more, it didn't have much substance answering his own rhetorical question.

In all fairness to him and his commentary, neither have you nor I, but we have given reasons for why other gays should speak up or become involved.

Do you realise you just quoted and then debunked yourself???