Why do we tolerate the ideologues?

[Kulindahr]

I just finished a short visit to CE & P, where I perused five new threads. About half the content was nothing but one JUBber attacking another -- throw in the baiting, name-calling, slander, etc. etc. ad nauseum, and it's definitely half the content. In two of the threads, there wasn't much else; I had to hunt hard for any actual on-topic posts.

Why do the rest of us JUBbers put up with this? Why is it that some few people, deeply grounded in their own ideology to the point that they have to spill insult and derogation with every line, don't set off a response in the rest of us, so we yell (or post) "Enough!"

It's bad enough that they're not listening to each other most of the time, or making an art out of just how close to the violation line they can get, over and over, without crossing, it's the attitude it expresses about the rest of us. Just as in a grade school class, the kid shooting off his mouth constantly with foul language isn't insulting his targets so much as the whole class. By filling posts with mindless, gutter-level vitriol, they say to the rest of us, "We don't respect you at all! We want your world to be a gutter like ours!"

Most of these people get reported to the mods regularly. Some have been banned -- more than once. They shape up for a week till they look good, then it's back to marshaling muck and flinging filth, working to dirty everything in sight. Sometimes they even apologize... but go right back to the vomit business.

Why do we put up with it?
Don't we want to engage in serious discussion? Don't we want a community where there's respect?
Or would we rather just all migrate to Fun and Games, which seems to be where the nicest and most thoughtful people on this board spend most of their time?

 

[JakeLucas]

Muy bien dicho, Kul. Tengo los mismos sentimientos.

Estoy harto de esas personas tan desagradables, tan asquerosas.

Tienes razón... «¿porqué no gritamos?» «¿porqué lo aguantamos?»

Pues, yo no me callo más...

¡Basta ya!

¡No ganarán! ¡Venceremos!

 

[D-Base]

Много добре казано Кул! Ще цитирам нещо което написах в една друга тема, но мисля че добре пасва тук!

It's easy to hide behind a monitor, to never show your face in public and just live in your fantasy world of fake qualities and standards.

I also don't get it when people just start insulting without any damn right to. But that absolutely shows how pathetic they are... feeling safe in their own little bubble...

The ones that insult the most and desperately try to rise above the crowd usually are the most pathetic, fake and insecure ones out there... that's their one chance to feel "important"... or in place.

My experience shows that you should never return the insults. It's not in any good for anyone. Flaming, wars. We don't even know each other... feeling the right to judge somebody you don't know, or even insult them is just a form of delusion some people are living in. Pathetic and sad really.

 

[JakeLucas]

Много добре казано Кул! Ще цитирам нещо което написах в една друга тема, но мисля че добре пасва тук!

Аз съвпадам с моя другар!

 

[Circe Infuria]

I just finished a short visit to CE & P,......

That's your problem right there.

I've only been in there one time, and I stayed for a whopping 5 minutes. I saw all I needed to see to know that it isn't a place I wanna give any time to.

If I want to see that kinda behavior, I'll watch Jerry Springer.

Honestly, I don't know how that place is still on here.

Kudos to the mods that work it, cuz you couldn't pay me to be in there.

But then again, as long as it stays in there and doesn't leak on the rest of the board, I guess I can't really complain. Some people are into that type of interaction.

 

[G-Lexington]

I think CE & P is like the Shell NoPest Strips of JUB. It would appear those whose debate skills never evolved past the name-calling stage, and for whom "my way or the highway" is a way of life, spend about 99% of their time there. This keeps them away from the other sections and other threads. Do I wish there was more real give-and-take political debate here on JUB? Sure, it'd be nice, I guess. But at least most of the boards are kept clear this way.

Lex

 

[Kulindahr]

That's your problem right there.

I've only been in there one time, and I stayed for a whopping 5 minutes. I saw all I needed to see to know that it isn't a place I wanna give any time to.

If I want to see that kinda behavior, I'll watch Jerry Springer.

Honestly, I don't know how that place is still on here.

Kudos to the mods that work it, cuz you couldn't pay me to be in there.

But then again, as long as it stays in there and doesn't leak on the rest of the board, I guess I can't really complain. Some people are into that type of interaction.

So your solution is "Run away!"?

That's dodging my question!

Why do we tolerate having a total forum taken over by low-lifes who make it so miserable that it has a reputation that drives people away who honestly want to discuss things seriously?

If they want to behave like that, let them petition for a forum called "Fuck Your Buddy (and not in a nice way)", and let those of us who are grown-ups talk to each other.

 

[Kulindahr]

I think CE & P is like the Shell NoPest Strips of JUB. It would appear those whose debate skills never evolved past the name-calling stage, and for whom "my way or the highway" is a way of life, spend about 99% of their time there. This keeps them away from the other sections and other threads. Do I wish there was more real give-and-take political debate here on JUB? Sure, it'd be nice, I guess. But at least most of the boards are kept clear this way.

Lex

But they spill over into Hot Topics, too, which is getting a reputation for being hurtful and hateful.

 

[Shepherd 2]

Kulindahr,
I couldn't agree more.
I visit CE&P as little as possible.
Ad hominem attacks are the nature of
much of the national political dialogues these days.
I have no time for it, even though I would like to
enter the discussion.
Avoiding it does not change anything, but it
gives me relief from the constant harangues.
Shep+

 

[G-Lexington]

I rarely see the kind of "Oh yeah, well so's your mother" sorts of exchanges that I see in CE/P in any other forum. Occasionally, there'll be some rather heated exchange in HT, but compared to CE/P, it's nothing. The mods usually do a good job of keeping it confined, I think.

Lex

 

[valis23]

Back when all those topics were in Hot Topics, it wasn't nearly as bad. I was let down when they piped it off to its own little hovel. More people used to participate and the conversations, having more input, had more variety. Now -as Kulindahr so aptly put it- only the idealogues go there. I went back in recently, despite knowing that as a rather conservative individual I'd be treated worse than a plague rat. I was right. Don't intend to go back.

As for the original question of this thread, it's just too easy to ignore that area and forget they're in there poking at each other with sharp sticks. I don't think it reflects negatively on the board that they're there. Even people like that need an outlet. Better they can find each other and leave the rest of the world alone.

 

[glo-unit]

I doubt anyone knows how to run a politics forum well. In my time on the net almost all of the politic forums on other message boards are exactly the same.
FSU (Figure Skating Universe) says it best.

"People who feel the urgent need to speak out about politics constantly on some pointless section of a figure skating forum that is only frequented by the same 30 people who all know each others opinions by heart after 2 days"

You have any ideas on how to better the CE&P forums because like I said most on the Internet try their best to turn their Political forum into something meaningful, but usually just settle to letting the baby have his/her bottle.

 

[Sausy]

'Cause ideologues need lovin' too.

Maybe to ideologues,it is love!

 

[Circe Infuria]

So your solution is "Run away!"?

That's dodging my question!

Why do we tolerate having a total forum taken over by low-lifes who make it so miserable that it has a reputation that drives people away who honestly want to discuss things seriously?

If they want to behave like that, let them petition for a forum called "Fuck Your Buddy (and not in a nice way)", and let those of us who are grown-ups talk to each other.

No, not "run away" but rather "stay away." At least as long as that forum is allowed to operate the way it does.

I do understand your point. You'd like to have a civil conversation without all the
5th grade name calling.

My guess is that it's that way because the mods allow it to be? That isn't a "no-flame" zone, so I suspect that's why all that shit is allowed to fly.

Perhaps if the staff were to decided to make it a "no-flame" zone then that would be the solution you're looking for.

I thought that had already been discussed by the staff, and the idea was turned down, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt to ask again.

 

[Kulindahr]

I doubt anyone knows how to run a politics forum well. In my time on the net almost all of the politic forums on other message boards are exactly the same.
FSU (Figure Skating Universe) says it best.

"People who feel the urgent need to speak out about politics constantly on some pointless section of a figure skating forum that is only frequented by the same 30 people who all know each others opinions by heart after 2 days"

You have any ideas on how to better the CE&P forums because like I said most on the Internet try their best to turn their Political forum into something meaningful, but usually just settle to letting the baby have his/her bottle.

Better it?

Better to divide it -- have two sub-forums, "The Common Room", to which any street punk can be admitted, and "The Brandy Room", where you have to discuss with class and style.
The Common Room would be run just as the current CE & P is; the Brandy Room would allow no invective, insult, insinuation, no slur nor slander, no intent of irritation.
The Common Room would be like... a street corner pub where so long as nothing gets broken (or if it does, it gets paid for), the proprietor lets it go on.
The Brandy Room would be a gentleman's club, with honor, respect, calm words, quiet observations, with dignity the sine qua non of any post.

 

[valis23]

Better it?

The Brandy Room would be a gentleman's club, with honor, respect, calm words, quiet observations, with dignity the sine qua non of any post.

And crickets, no doubt. Lots of crickets to fill the silence.

 

[JakeLucas]

[ ... ] This keeps them away from the other sections and other threads. Do I wish there was more real give-and-take political debate here on JUB? Sure, it'd be nice, I guess. But at least most of the boards are kept clear this way.

Lex

Те избягват много често в Hot Topics.

But they spill over into Hot Topics, too, which is getting a reputation for being hurtful and hateful.

Wie mann hier lesen kann...
Fucking Disgusting Group of Amish People!!!!!!!!!

I rarely see the kind of "Oh yeah, well so's your mother" sorts of exchanges that I see in CE/P in any other forum. Occasionally, there'll be some rather heated exchange in HT, but compared to CE/P, it's nothing. The mods usually do a good job of keeping it confined, I think.

Lex

¿Has leído las hilas de temas de bisexuales?

Maybe to ideologues,it is love!

C'est très difficile d'aimer les personnes qui sont pleines de la haine.

 

[Kulindahr]

The thing I don't understand is, how are you going to let some one come back after being banned more then a few times? Obviously that person has not learned their lesson and doesn't seem to want to.

Most people don't run away, like said above, instead they stay away. Because why would most people want to 'debate' where it's and 'I am right, you're wrong' constant mentality there.

That's why I said "divide it".
Let the abusive ideologues slum in their wort of world, and have a tie-and-vest section for the civilized people.

Ever since it has been the CE&P forum, it's always been the same and it never seemed to change that much at all, so it's never going to attract any more then what it has. And honestly doesn't seem like it will ever change either. So, it's not a matter of tolerating it, it's not wanting to be around it at all.

It attracts a lot of new people... until they find out it isn't a discussion forum, but a kindergarten where instead of food and paint, the juveniles fling rotten food excrement. Those new people, and those who have left, or those with strong intestinal fortitude, should have a place to kick back and toss around ideas without the gutter smell.

 

[Kulindahr]

And crickets, no doubt. Lots of crickets to fill the silence.

No, in the silence we puff our pipes.






With personal preference of contents, of course.

 

[valis23]

No, in the silence we puff our pipes.
With personal preference of contents, of course.

Fair enough. Are you talking about having some sort of requirement for entrance, i.e. would the chimps and their excrement be banned from the Brandy Room? If so, any ideas on how that could be enacted? If not, how do you propose the Brandy Room be moderated? That would be a Lot of work, because chimps, flamers, drunks, and trolls would wander through the saloon doors all the time.