Why do we tolerate the ideologues?

[Kulindahr]

Parece que no puedes dejar de ser ideólogo, aun en este hilo de tema ideólogos.

Una observacion muy incinsivo y penetrante.

 

[valis23]

The last time I was in CE&P I was referred to as "scum" (by someone I previously respected quite a bit) before I had even made a post. If that's the kind of exchange you're promoting, Nick, you can have it. If you can provide an example of anything constructive or positive coming out of that environment, I'd be interested in seeing it.

 

[Kulindahr]

The last time I was in CE&P I was referred to as "scum" (by someone I previously respected quite a bit) before I had even made a post. If that's the kind of exchange you're promoting, Nick, you can have it. If you can provide an example of anything constructive or positive coming out of that environment, I'd be interested in seeing it.

Wow.

Now, in the "Brandy Room", the author of that comment would be loudly and ceremoniously dumped downstairs to the "Common Room".

 

[sparky95]

I love it when people think that losing freedom is an improvement....

Which is a view quite common to the ranting ideologues on JUB.


Could be there's a connection?

Yes, I am a Fascist, Kuli! After all I do support the loss of freedom that southerners had after the Civil War. You know the one where it was acceptable to own other people as slaves? I beleave Thomas Jefferson was a particular fan of that one too...With your fondness of this period I suspect that you too would like a few slaves. As I said, there was a big gulf between ideology and reality.

 

[Kulindahr]

^ You need to study some history; you've got some facts twisted.

Now that you've demonstrated what JakeLucas said above, can we get back to topiC?

 

[sparky95]

So no slaves in the south, and no slaves owned by Jefferson,eh?

 

[NickCole]

Are you really telling us you have no problem with people whose posts can almost always be counted on to be running down things people value. with emotionally-loaded, insulting statements? composed generally of slogans that aid in avoiding thinking, the effect of which is merely to rouse cheers from "the choir" that's full of people who have no respect for others' thoughts?

I think using emotionally-loaded insulting statements to run down things people value is no worse than doing the same with "civilized" language.

It sounds like you're mounting a defense of immaturity, irrationality, and mudslinging, because those are the things being objected to. It's not a matter of "nice"; it's quite possible to be viciously incisive with rational, respectful language. That kind of language isn't a "facade", it's civilized behavior, and those who lack it are the sort who will trash you in your face, behind your back, or anywhere else.

I suppose it'd be easier if everybody went along with the script we'd like to write for our conversations -- and for that matter our whole lives. But people bring their own history, their own style, their own language to the table. Hard as it may be, striving to hear what people say rather than being distracted by how they say it seems a better way than stifling personal expression.

And anyway, vicious is still vicious even if you extend your pinkie while you're doing it.

 

[JakeLucas]

Yes, I am a Fascist, Kuli! After all I do support the loss of freedom that southerners had after the Civil War. You know the one where it was acceptable to own other people as slaves? I beleave Thomas Jefferson was a particular fan of that one too...With your fondness of this period I suspect that you too would like a few slaves. As I said, there was a big gulf between ideology and reality.

Otra vez nos has mostrado que no puedes dejar de insultar, ni de ser desagradable, odioso, aborrecible, y --sobre todo-- altanero.

[ ... ]
Why do the rest of us JUBbers put up with this? Why is it that some few people, deeply grounded in their own ideology to the point that they have to spill insult and derogation with every line, don't set off a response in the rest of us, so we yell (or post) "Enough!"[ ... ]

Pues, no lo aguanto más... «¡Basta!»

So no slaves in the south, and no slaves owned by Jefferson,eh?

¿¿¿No puedes dejar de hostigar??? ¿No entiendes el tema de este hilo, amigo mío?

¡Basta!

 

[Kulindahr]

I think using emotionally-loaded insulting statements to run down things people value is no worse than doing the same with "civilized" language.

I suppose it'd be easier if everybody went along with the script we'd like to write for our conversations -- and for that matter our whole lives. But people bring their own history, their own style, their own language to the table. Hard as it may be, striving to hear what people say rather than being distracted by how they say it seems a better way than stifling personal expression.

And anyway, vicious is still vicious even if you extend your pinkie while you're doing it.

You've equated the Kung Fu Master with a rabid dog.

It's the difference between communicating effectively, or even communicating. By your lights here, there's no difference between someone telling you they think your arguments deserve to be flushed, and someone taking a dump in your face.
The point is that the guy who took the dump on your face didn't say anything -- he acted like an animal. And those who can't manage to post without being insulting and degrading to anyone and anything they disagree with are acting like animals; they just use the trappings of homo sapiens to do it.

Actually, my first line is derogatory to rabid dogs: they don't have the capacity to be better or do differently.

 

[Kulindahr]

Otra vez nos has mostrado que no puedes dejar de insultar, ni de ser desagradable, odioso, aborrecible, y --sobre todo-- altanero.

Pues, no lo aguanto más... «¡Basta!»

¿¿¿No puedes dejar de hostigar??? ¿No entiendes el tema de este hilo, amigo mío?

¡Basta!

You're making good points.
I hope NickCole appreciates them and values them -- after all, you're bringing "[your] own history, [your] own style, [your] own language to the table.

 

[NickCole]

You've equated the Kung Fu Master with a rabid dog.

It's the difference between communicating effectively, or even communicating. By your lights here, there's no difference between someone telling you they think your arguments deserve to be flushed, and someone taking a dump in your face.

If you intended that as metaphor it's a misinterpretation of what I wrote.

And if it wasn't intended as metaphor you're way off base.

The point is that the guy who took the dump on your face didn't say anything -- he acted like an animal.

Do you mean take a dump literally? If so, it's just bizarre to change our discussion that way.

So I'll assume you mean that as metaphor.

In my experience people who get in your face DO have something they want to say and are, in fact, saying something.

Just because something is hard to hear doesn't mean there's nothing there -- or, for that matter, that it's not worth hearing.

And those who can't manage to post without being insulting and degrading to anyone and anything they disagree with are acting like animals; they just use the trappings of homo sapiens to do it.

Actually, my first line is derogatory to rabid dogs: they don't have the capacity to be better or do differently.

You're being insulting and degrading with this post and similar ones you've written. Do you believe that's okay because of your word choice? Or that those you target with these insults don't deserve better, while you believe you do? How do you justify writing insulting and degrading things about others while you're complaining about them writing insulting and degrading things?

 

[NickCole]

You're making good points.
I hope NickCole appreciates them and values them -- after all, you're bringing "[your] own history, [your] own style, [your] own language to the table.

I read only English so I can't appreciate or value --or even understand-- what that poster has written.

But that's my shortcoming, not his.

 

[Pushover]

And you wonder why I never post in the CP&E forums...look what it's doing to people on the Hot Topics section...

 

[JakeLucas]

I read only English so I can't appreciate or value --or even understand-- what that poster has written.

But that's my shortcoming, not his.

Wir streiken gegen die Unhöflichkeit der JUBers. Darum schreiben wir nicht auf Englisch, --->hier<--- Aufmerksamkeit zu erregen.


¡Basta!

 

[NickCole]

Wir streiken gegen die Unhöflichkeit der JUBers. Darum schreiben wir nicht auf Englisch, --->hier<--- Aufmerksamkeit zu erregen.


¡Basta!

Okay.

Read your rant. Don't know what it's about, specifically, but I'm with you about deceivers.

Hope you're getting what you want from your protest.

I can't read your posts so I just scroll by.

Good luck.

 

[RobbyIsTehCool]

One must remember that there are two types of discussion. Currently my books are all packed away in cardboard crates, so I can't give you a more precise definition of both, but it breaks down to this basically...

"War" type discussion...

The point of this type of discussion is to impress the audience, not the other person. By making the other person appear crazy, a loon, etcetera, you weaken the position they hold in general, thus keeping people away from their side. This is precisely the sort of discussion that happens on forums, because its literally a forum, where other people read the arguments. If someone is saying things like "Your mother is a whore," then clearly they aren't going to 'win' the argument because they act like an ass. If someone points out that not believing in evolution is insane then you 'win.'

Even more important is the ability in this type of discussion to 'shake' people, because it makes the process following this easier. This process is the...

"Peace" type discussion...

Here you sit down one on one, or four on four, with the intent of coming to an actual conclusion. In this arena there is no value in insults, because here you are trying to actually convince the other person you are correct, and not an audience. However, if you remove the power of the people behind the other party, by convincing them the person your talking with is insane, it weakens his practical resolve in the first place, meaning you are more likely to come out on top in this discussion.


It is inevitable that the 'war' type discussion is what will occur on public forums because noone is really trying to convince you, they are trying to convince the other unseen watchers, thus making your opinion irrelevant in the first place.

The best defense against people whom start insulting other peoples mothers is first to point out that insulting your mother doesn't help your argument any, and then to continue in a calm manner pointing out why the ideas they hold are flawed.

If you don't want to be bullied, don't be bullied. Just be smarter in your argument.


Eh, my two cents.

 

[JakeLucas]

Okay.

Read your rant. Don't know what it's about, specifically, but I'm with you about deceivers.

Hope you're getting what you want from your protest.

I can't read your posts so I just scroll by.

Good luck.

Благодаря ти за четене на съобщението. Не е важно да се разбере нашите съобщения. Важно е да се каже съобщението за нашия cтачка.

 

[valis23]

If people are perfectly capable of writing in English, but choose to write in some other language, they're only limiting their audience.

Tyler Durden: How's that working out for you?
Narrator: What?
Tyler Durden: Being clever.
Narrator: Great.
Tyler Durden: Keep it up then... Right up.

 

[JakeLucas]

If people are perfectly capable of writing in English, but choose to write in some other language, they're only limiting their audience.

[ ... ]

Você tem razão, meu irmão!

Mais não importa a mensagem que eu escrevo, nem importa se você compreende!

Estamos de greve! Protestamos a falta de civilidade e cortesía em JUB.

 

[Pushover]

Why do I feel the sudden urge to shout 'VIVA REVOLUTION!'?