Why do we tolerate the ideologues?

[JakeLucas]

^^

Na ja....

Der General hat seine Armee mobilisiert.

Das hab' ich schon erwartet.

 

[NickCole]

^^

Na ja....

Der General hat seine Armee mobilisiert.

Das hab' ich schon erwartet.

That's what you say ... however ...


General Alfie has made no effort to communicate with me about this. Not a single word.

On the other hand, I received a note from your buddy denigrating General Alfie, trying to convince me that you're the "nice" guy.

Who is and who is not attempting to mobilize an army?

General Alfie is honest and principled and forthright. But oh my gosh you sure are nice.

 

[Kulindahr]

...holy $и¡+ dude....

You've got some pent up issues...

He's tired of seeing the ideologues parading around as saints.

 

[Kulindahr]

I left your post as you posted it except for boldfacing in purple the parts I wanted to draw attention to.

In this post you are insulting, mean-spirited, hateful and nasty.

Like others here, you read poorly. "If... then" statements aren't insulting, etc. etc.
And since the master of the sort of posts under discussion has entered the arena, Jake's post is amateur compared to Alfie's efforts -- of course, Jake doesn't practice, while Alfie does.

Whatever else you say about General Alfie, he is honest and forthright and has the integrity of a man who owns himself and his passions, and doesn't pretend to be someone he's not.

"Honest"?
Only if he's on a par with President Bush, who sees his own reality -- one with little relation to the facts.
A man who "owns his passions" reigns them in. Someone who posts the way Alfie and others who were the topic of this thread does is owned by his passions.

On the other hand, I received a note from your buddy denigrating General Alfie, trying to convince me that you're the "nice" guy.

General Alfie is honest and principled and forthright. But oh my gosh you sure are nice.

"Principled"?
Someone who can't get the proper gender for pronouns, most of whose posts are emotional drivel and not discussion, is "principled"?
I suppose it depends on one's principles. If one's principles are to be harsh, unfeeling, deceitful, emotional rather than rational, blindly partisan, and the like, then Alfie is principled.

[Wondering who sent the alleged note.]
Jake is a -- and the -- nice guy. He's just doing what a lot of the abused and wounded from the ideological demagoguery Alfie and such practice on a regular basis haven't done -- speaking up instead of just leaving. Jake listens to people's issues, Alfie sneers at them; Jake tries to reconcile differences, Alfie rejoices in and exploits them.

 

[NickCole]

Kulindahr,

Well you're welcome to your opinion.

I disagree with your view but that doesn't surprise me. From your posts and your blog it's clear you cry Victim a lot and unreasonably blame the wrong people. You also support and trust the wrong people -- and that's according to your own complaints.

 

[construct]

I love the JUB CE&P section and I don't care who knows it! And furthermore, I have dreams about General Alfie doing battle with Chance1 and let me tell ya folks, it ain't pretty.

Where can I get tickets?

General Alfie's first post on this thread was calling attention to a blatant misrepresentation, and I'm sorry it's made several people who ought to be on the same side run aroung shrieking like banshees.

There's an ignore function, folks. I use it. It works. It makes me much more pleasant, and it has allowed me to enjoy my time here much more. Yes, I miss out on some really outrageous stuff. But you know what? That stuff is going to be there with or without me, and I'd just as soon it be there without me. And I'm not willing to miss out on the good stuff to avoid the bad.

I love my ignore feature. I use it for people that I judge to be beyond my ability to have a constructive conversation with.

 

[JakeLucas]

My, such anger and hatred!

Honey, you have all the cogency of a ranting religious nut in Times Square. But, hey, this is still a semi-free country -- your right to make a fool of yourself (if anonymously) is protected.

[ ... ]

Uffda!

Jag fångat den stor hajen!

 

[JakeLucas]

That's what you say ... however ...


General Alfie has made no effort to communicate with me about this. Not a single word.

On the other hand, I received a note from your buddy denigrating General Alfie, trying to convince me that you're the "nice" guy.

Who is and who is not attempting to mobilize an army?

General Alfie is honest and principled and forthright. But oh my gosh you sure are nice.

Tack själv mycket för meddelandet. Jag tro på du.

Jag har också hänvänd sig till ingen en. Inte en smula enkel uttrycka.

 

[valis23]

General Alfie is honest about who he is, and I give him a tremendous amount of credit for that. You always know where you stand with him. I also happen to know he's got a nice side that's respectful and generous. If I were to visit New York, he'd be the first person I'd call. I'd like to have someone that ferocious and committed as a friend. If you can't see through his rantings and see what an honorable person he is, you're not looking very hard.

I don't know why he enjoys posting the way he does. I rarely read any of his posts because their content and spirit haven't changed in years. But I won't be part of any effort to shut him up or force him to be something he's obviously not. I just keep scrolling. I would like to be able to have a political discussion up here without his type of input, but I don't think we've seen a viable solution to that.

In short, General Alfie and his ilk are not the problem. They should be able to do that voodoo they do. The problem is somehow in the structure of the board, but beyond that I can't really say how.

 

[Kulindahr]

General Alfie is honest about who he is, and I give him a tremendous amount of credit for that. You always know where you stand with him. I also happen to know he's got a nice side that's respectful and generous. If I were to visit New York, he'd be the first person I'd call. I'd like to have someone that ferocious and committed as a friend. If you can't see through his rantings and see what an honorable person he is, you're not looking very hard.

I don't know why he enjoys posting the way he does. I rarely read any of his posts because their content and spirit haven't changed in years. But I won't be part of any effort to shut him up or force him to be something he's obviously not. I just keep scrolling. I would like to be able to have a political discussion up here without his type of input, but I don't think we've seen a viable solution to that.

In short, General Alfie and his ilk are not the problem. They should be able to do that voodoo they do. The problem is somehow in the structure of the board, but beyond that I can't really say how.

Given the frequency with which Alfie lies and distorts, it's hard to give much credence to the claim that he's honorable.
When he's at his best, he's the sort of person I'd want to call if I was in town, too -- in a fairly recent thread, he started out in a fashion that showed dignity and respect; but then he deteriorated into the disrespectful, snide sort of thing that is all too characteristic.

Maybe the question should be "why do we tolerate the ideologues' driving away people who really want to participate?" More and more, I like my spur-of-the-moment "Common Room & Brandy Room" idea -- it would grant Alfie and others the chance to be unruly where it wouldn't trample on others.
And that's the trouble: I have the right to swing my fist, but it ends just a bit before your nose begins; likewise, people have the right to rant, but that ends just before it intimidates and hurts others. From my experience since joining JUB, ranting ideologues have not only driven people from CE & P (and Hot Topics), but discouraged them from even sticking around JUB's gay community.

Alfie clearly isn't the only one; just to grab at one he fires at frequently, Chance1 makes posts that would get him warned, and after three, kicked out of the "Brandy Room". But both those two make posts that would meet the requirements of dignity and respect for that "inner club" -- and a division between "Common Room" and "Brandy Room" would give them room for both.

It would also let some of us who work at dignity and respect go ahead and cut loose sometimes....


Maybe it's time for a poll?

 

[construct]

Kuli, do you honestly think a poll would lead to an additional forum or subforum?

 

[JakeLucas]

blah bla blah (save some oddity who posts in Google-translated muck) blah blah blah

Otra vez muestras la falta de ciencia y un impulso irresistible y sangriento a insultar, ofender, dañar y herir.

Lo curioso es, de eso no tienes vergüenza.

A propósito, mae... fallaste.

¡Basta!

 

[NineOfClubs]

^ Ever person of long standing has rebuked you and your crybaby, victimized whining; no one has spoken of your integrity, no one (save some oddity who posts in Google-translated muck) stands by your assertions. Why don't you just stop whining and go clean a gun, or whine about the rain ruining the rhubarb and the unfairness of it all.

Alfie, I for one am so sick of your "autocrat of the breakfast table" persona. I consider you one of JUB's biggest "crybabies", as you put it. Should we just rename CE&P "Alfie's Corner" and be done with it?

Well, I'm not of that much "long standing", but I'll come to Kuli's defense, and speak of his integrity.

Unlike most of you, I've had a drink or two, more than a time or two, face to face with Kulindahr. I have to say he's great fun to be around, very entertaining, educated and informed, with a unique, philosophical take on almost any subject under the sun. (By the way, you can talk to him for hours without the 2nd Amendment coming up.) He's posted in almost all the forums on JUB (unlike that "one trick pony", Alfie) without resorting to shrill, degrading and profane language.

And as for this "respect" people have for those who are "honest" about who they are and with whom you "know where they stand". The same could be said for Bin Laden, Charles Manson, and the Uni-bomber....

 

[Kulindahr]

Kuli, do you honestly think a poll would lead to an additional forum or subforum?

I dunno, but it's worth a try.

And if a "Brandy Room" sort of subforum could be done, I'll volunteer as a moderator, much as I hate the notion of such duty. Better, though, might be one of our more polite and cultured British JUBbers, from whose culture's "gentlemen's club" concept my notion is derived.