Why gay men have trouble keeping friends

[HOspitalboy]

I think I understand more of what is happening to me.

Thank you for writing this, and stating in the very beginning that it was interesting, if it wasn't for that, I don't think I would have continued.

I too have been noticing my persona, and how I am very timid and it seems that my past experiences have highly influenced me.

Would you ever think of acting like your old self, maybe trying to forget what happened when you were younger, and see if people react differently (a better different)? I know it may not be you now, but it still is a part of you.

Sometimes, I deepen my voice because I get so excited I sound like a girl, mind you, I have a pretty darn deep voice (so I'm told). I can't help but be myself, and if it's gay, then Eff you (not you, them), I'm a homosexual.

I also agree with straight people having it somewhat easier, they don't have much to find out for themselves, just soul searching, but I believe being gay takes a lot of work, mostly emotional work.

 

[luminum]

I think the generalizations used here rubbed me the wrong way a bit, but I understand what you're trying to say. In your experience as a gay man, you feel that these qualities that you now carry with you prevent you from forming close and meaningful friendships. It's certainly not most gay men, but it is some gay men. Most of us live in conflicting and unwelcoming societies, but I think it's ultimately up to the person themselves (gay or otherwise) to be comfortable with themselves and the people they associate with in order to form friendships that mean something.

Straight people have to deal with non-conformist behavior all the time. There are those who don't seem to because they have conformed and squashed their non-conformist tendencies. There are those who live outside the box, but so unsuccessfully try to get within the box and there are those who are outside of the box and are content to be outside the box. Take your average series of cliques. What about the cheerleader who likes playing football too? What about the guy who likes to cook? The nerd who likes fantasy novels and D&D? The stoners who can't conform to the preps and the preps who can't conform to the stoners? Everyone is a fringe and a non-comformist to somebody.

Even if I wasn't always comfortable with my own budding homosexuality as a kid, I still felt comfortable around my friends in general, and my best friend is still my best friend 10 years later. I must say that I've never had a problem with making friends and maintaining those that mean a lot to me, and that's been a quality of mine apparently since I was an unabashed 6 year-old starting conversations with random people...and I was pretty much a flamer when I was little, too. I didn't like sports, but I eventually grew into some in my older years. I was a video game geek, I liked Sailormoon openly in middle school, my clothes weren't trendy--I mean, my mom dressed me and I always got the same dorky haircut, I was very chubby. All these things were 'non-comformist' things I had to deal with in addition to being gay and most of my good friends now had to deal with them too. It's only until we got older that we realized that non of that stuff meant shit. I accepted my sexuality. My best friend accepted that he was part of the 'art' crowd and that his elementary school buddies weren't ever going to snap out of being 'cool' (or vice versa) and be his friends again. We decided to be ourselves and be cool with it and luckily, we were cool with one another and found others who felt the same. For me, in high school, that carried my friendships across cliques, and I like to believe that it was because I was accepting of myself and others. I was able to laugh at myself and poke fun right back and that made people comfortable because they knew that wasn't any tension.

So life throws adversity at everyone, gay or straight, but it's p to us to handle these things with hindsight and maturity of time and experience and decide what emotional baggage to carry or drop.

I think you understand this though, since you're trying to find a means to get over the issues that you developed as a result of your antagonized past, mostly as you feel, due to other people's poor acceptance of your sexuality. But just recognize that it's more than likely not just your sexuality. No one can put you down or phase you unless you let them. It's the corniest thing to say, but in truth, if you're comfortable with yourself, you won't care now that some douche calls you a fag. If you know who you are and take pride in at least some part of it, then you've got the best armor and the strongest arm to reach forward and forge lasting friendships.

 

[NickCole]

You're right but don't get trapped into thinking it's a gay/straight thing because really it's a genuine/false persona thing.

A lot of straight people do it to themselves as well, and some gay people don't struggle that much with it.

In fact, 20 and 30 years ago I think gay men were more likely to be genuine and have real nurturing honest friendships than straight people were. Anyway that was my experience with the people I knew. But it seems to me that gay 20 to 30 somethings today have a greater tendency to be false, or deceitful and manipulative in their friendships, than we were at that age. I think, for what it's worth, that the difference came out of the different way we were parented and then the incredible sense of freedom and liberation we felt being gay post-Stonewall and pre-AIDS. We were almost militantly determined to be our true selves, and had a take-me-or-leave-me-as-I-really-am attitude. "We're here, we're queer, get used to it," came on the heels of that -- and I think may have been the last gasp of that genuineness. I think today a lot of 20 to 30 somethings feel a pressure to be something they're afraid they can't measure up to so they create a false persona to fit in, be liked, be desired, be able to attract the prizes they're concerned they can't get any other way.

Learning how to be genuine, how to be in command of your substantive self rather than whoring a pretense so you'll be liked, takes some effort but in my opinon it's something that's more easily accomplished by having friends who expect that of you rather than spending an hour a week with a therapist.

Find friends who are honest with you, honest about themselves and honest in their criticism and validation of you. Nurture friendships with people who bring out the better you, not people who excuse and even encourage your lesser self. If you want to make and keep genuine friendships, look inside others and appreciate substance, and let others in to see the real you so when you make a friendship it's because of who you are, not what others want you to be.

 

[rareboy]

Find friends who are honest with you, honest about themselves and honest in their criticism and validation of you. Nurture friendships with people who bring out the better you, not people who excuse and even encourage your lesser self. If you want to make and keep genuine friendships, look inside others and appreciate substance, and let others in to see the real you so when you make a friendship it's because of who you are, not what others want you to be.

...and don't play games with friendship or with people's heads.

....and don't be cynical about relationships.

That about covers it.

 

[Caeth]

I don't think everyone goes through those kinds of experiences growing up...but I think a fair amount of homosexuals do. My experiences were not exactly the same but they are somewhat similar. I never acted "flaming", so no one knew I was gay....but I was the weird foreign kid in elementary/middle school. I also felt like I never fit in in high school, never could keep friends, and was generally a "loser".

Its had a profound effect on my life...I"m still dealing with the fallout. As a result of feeling so horrible and depressed all the time I dissociated by playing a lot of computer games. Now, even though I'm out, have no problem attracting guys, and have a fair amount of friends....I still don't like getting close to my friends and everyday is a struggle to not isolate myself.

I think it has to do with a lot of what was mentioned in a different thread. Homosexuals don't generally have a normal high school or adolescent phase. As a result they go through "adolescence" at an older age. My therapist actually told me about that a month ago lol. I know that ever since I came out and began a "normal" college experience- my confidence and sense of self has exponentially grown.

 

[Matthew-]

Your story makes sense. And its true that gay constantly get negative comments...

 

[NickCole]

....but I was the weird foreign kid in elementary/middle school. I also felt like I never fit in in high school, never could keep friends, and was generally a "loser". ...

I think it has to do with a lot of what was mentioned in a different thread. Homosexuals don't generally have a normal high school or adolescent phase. As a result they go through "adolescence" at an older age. My therapist actually told me about that a month ago lol. I know that ever since I came out and began a "normal" college experience- my confidence and sense of self has exponentially grown.

It is "normal" in high school to feel like we don't fit in, to struggle with relationships and socialization. That's what peer pressure is all about.

That's not a gay thing, it's an adolescent thing. Every kid goes through it to some extent, and those who go through more extreme versions (a "foreign kid," or "flaming" or overweight or unattractive or really bad at athletics, or poor in a rich town, or black in a mostly white town, or however you might be on the severe side of not fitting in) have the opportunity to really nurture elements of their self-identity and socialization out of that pain. That's the reason so many really successful people have personal histories of feeling set-apart and not fitting in.

Some who feel set-apart (because they're secretly gay or a geek or whatever) don't grow into their genuine self-identity but instead find some source of power that lets them hide the fear and shame and incompetence they felt in adolescence while getting some version of what they want -- adult gay men in the closet, for instance, or an ugly ducking grows into a swan and uses his good looks to attract friends and lovers and jobs rather than nurturing the growth of his genuine self-identity. But while being gay can be another reason we feel we don't fit in, particularly in high school, how each of us handles challenges and life's passages is, I think, not much related to being gay or straight.

 

[maxpowr9]

One thing I realized through reading alot of these long posts is that alot of people tend to dwell in the past (as for many of us, it was a bad experience). I know if I continually thought about the past, I would be depressed again. I look towards my future with some optimism.

As for the whole friends thing. Don't try to be someone you're not. Most people are not stupid and can see through the phony. In contrast, when you first meet someone, try to show your your positive abtributes. Dont let your sexuality be your center focus (unless you are trying to pick up a guy).

 

[Caeth]

I don't think it's fair to compare feeling awkward because of being gay to another type of estrangement. First of all, I had no suspicion I was gay until junior year of high school...and after that I was in very deep denial. That's not the case in other situations...you can pinpoint the difference.

Also saying that feeling set-apart actually gives one an advantage because it forces one to deal with tough issues isn't exactly right either. It's not just a feeling of set-apart...feeling set-apart is more in the vein of "oh i'm different, what does that mean?, let's explore!, etc." . Isolation/depression has to do with "there's something wrong with me...i'm x, y, z, and therefore i'm fucked" It's a different way to approach the aspect of being "different". In truth everyone is "different" lol.

The fact also is that when ur gay in high school and either don't accept it or don't know, you will not allow yourself or be able to find any kind of social comfortability. If ur a poor kid in a rich school, I'm sure you can find friends from another neighborhood or people who understand ur situation, etc. If ur gay and can't accept it, you yourself won't allow that kind of socialization.

 

[NickCole]

I don't think it's fair to compare feeling awkward because of being gay to another type of estrangement. First of all, I had no suspicion I was gay until junior year of high school...and after that I was in very deep denial. That's not the case in other situations...you can pinpoint the difference.

No two ways of feeling set-apart are exactly the same. Being fat isn't the same as being poor in a rich community, which is different from being unattractive, etc. My point is that a desire to fit in, and feeling set apart, is a normal element of adolescence. And I think trouble keeping friends is not connected to being gay so much as being fundamentally uncomfortable with, or distanced from, who you really are. Of course there are other reasons people can have a tough time with friendships, but I wanted to point out that lots of gay men and women have satisfying genuine friendships -- so it's not being gay, it's something else.

Also saying that feeling set-apart actually gives one an advantage because it forces one to deal with tough issues isn't exactly right either.

I didn't say it gives one an advantage. I said it provides opportunity.

Adversity always provides opportunity.

It's not just a feeling of set-apart...feeling set-apart is more in the vein of "oh i'm different, what does that mean?, let's explore!, etc." . Isolation/depression has to do with "there's something wrong with me...i'm x, y, z, and therefore i'm fucked" It's a different way to approach the aspect of being "different". In truth everyone is "different" lol.

The fact also is that when ur gay in high school and either don't accept it or don't know, you will not allow yourself or be able to find any kind of social comfortability. If ur a poor kid in a rich school, I'm sure you can find friends from another neighborhood or people who understand ur situation, etc. If ur gay and can't accept it, you yourself won't allow that kind of socialization.

If you're poor in a rich community and can't accept it, it's the same thing.

It's accepting the truth of who we are and our circumstances, and utilizing whatever opportunities we have that makes it possible for us to grow and mature and move beyond feeling set apart.

 

[backpacker]

I'm sorry you had such a rough childhood. I'm sure there are others on JUB who can relate to your experience. I do think you generalize a little too much. Many gay guys have deep, long lasting friendships. Of my three best friends, I have known two since 5th grade and one since high school. Many of the gay guys I know have very long term friendships as well. There's a lot more to it then whether you are gay or not. Unfortunately many straight kids have experiences similar to yours.

Just because you have had a hard time forming relationships in the past doesn't mean it needs to continue. First, why don't you make the gay issue a non-factor. Join some gay groups. You should probably explore why the friendships you made in high school were not deeper and lasting. It's very possible that your experience of being picked on in school have caused you to put up a rough exterior that makes it hard for you to open in friendships. A little counseling would probably be useful for that. You also need to get comfortable in your own skin. Your friend from Atlanta sounds like a good someone you can lean on for advice. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Matthew-]

It is "normal" in high school to feel like we don't fit in, to struggle with relationships and socialization. That's what peer pressure is all about.

Interesting... In fact, i always wondered if those making mean comments in school did it because they believed those comments or just wanted to impress their friends...

 

[Soilwork]

I'll tell you that people can sense a faker miles away. If you're hiding something.. people will just instinctively know.

They won't know what you're hiding from them but they'll know you're hiding something.

Yup.. your friend is right. Just being who you are will be much better. People really do respect that.

I know that when I was on Fratmen shoots and pretending to be straight.. I'd fool no one. Regardless of how thick I laid it on.. they'd know.

when I just didn't care and didn't try to hide being gay from anyone, the guys were always a bit more surprised to find out but respected me a lot more.

 

[jockboy01]

I'll tell you that people can sense a faker miles away. If you're hiding something.. people will just instinctively know.

Generally true. Although there are definitely exceptions.

Very interesting topic though. While I didn't really share any of the same experiences with you, I'd never thought of it that way. Actually, I had a ton of friends in high school. But maybe it explains why so many gay guys I've met have no real self confidence. Never thought of things this way.

I'd say just be yourself. At your age, you're still trying to figure that out for sure (so am I). But I've also found that you can be anybody you want to be. So figure out who you want to be and just work toward that as well.

 

[Daximus]

I can identify with the OP's story. I've found that by not lying (or hiding my true nature if you want to view it that way) to people about who I am was the best decision I've ever made in my whole life. I feel the limited # of friends I have now respect me more than when I kept a tight lid on who I was from day 1.

 

[BrandonSBCA]

That pretty much sums up how my keeping friends is in my life. Great post.