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Why gays should be wary of "equality"

JayQueer said:
If both gay liberals & gay conservatives can understand each other (without demonizing & tearing each other down), it will be good for all gay people....

In the words of Rodney King, "why can't we get along?"
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Gay liberals will never understand why gay conservatives insist on supporting people who want a country where gays can be denied housing for being gay, denied jobs for being gay, and more.

So we won't get along until conservative gays stop supporting those people.
 
GayLad87 said:
I have not read the rest of the post. I am a gay conservative (British Tory). The word equality to me is a horrid word.
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So you prefer a country where some people get to break laws without penalty, others get privileges the rest don't in court cases, etc.? Because that's what you're saying.
 
JayQueer said:
I'm not a "Republican apologist." But I refuse to simply blindly follow liberals or Democrats, simply because "all the other gays are doing it." I don't like liberals OR conservatives trying to control my life & tell me what to do.

There is a pattern here on JUB that if you disagree with someone, then suddenly the personal insults & attacks come flying.

For the record, I never gave my personal views in this thread. I shared what gay conservatives think, so you can get some insight into their world-view. You don't have to agree with it. You can understand someone else's point-of-view without agreeing with them.
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Except you did give your personal views in Post 25. We're not stupid. We do follow your posts and can read. You can't say it was "interpreting" the reading. You took a position.

And don't accuse the community of personally attacking people if members disagree with you. Everyone knows about you, and this kind of fake, inciting material will only increase the negative reaction from the community who refuses to be taken in as fools.
 
Just_Believe18 said:
Except you did give your personal views in Post 25. We're not stupid. We do follow your posts and can read. You can't say it was "interpreting" the reading. You took a position.
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No I did not share my personal views, because they are much more complicated.

I shared what gay conservatives believe about the concept of "equality" which is commonly used by liberals & the gay community.

I went to a Log Cabin Republican meeting recently (I was curious) and I have talked to a few guys who identify as gay conservatives & gay Republicans. They had differing opinions about some issues, but they all shared the common belief that "big government is the problem" and that a government that gives you your rights can easily take them away. They don't like the term "equality" -- they prefer the terms "freedom" and "liberty." This ideology fits in with what other gay conservatives have written in the blogosphere, including that post on the "GayPatriot" blog by Daniel Blatt.

With that said, I don't agree with how right-wing Christians and social conservatives have reshaped the Republican Party into some kind of a "Christian Party" that is so vehemently anti-gay, to the point of booing an actively serving soldier who was also revealed to be gay. Many gay conservatives & gay Republicans are apologetic for many of the anti-gay politicians within their own party. That doesn't sit well with me.

But at the same time, I am not enthusiastic about the Democratic Party, because I feel like it has been pushed leftward by activists of the opposite stripe. I feel like the Democratic Party takes me, a gay man, for granted, because it assumes that I will vote Democrat no matter what. Just because I am a gay man does not mean I will camp out and give speeches at Occupy protests. I am also concerned about anti-war people within the Democratic Party who are against our troops. I am very PRO-military, and I support our troops no matter what. Sadly, many liberals (even here on JUB) are not pro-military. One person here on JUB called our troops rednecks and uneducated bigots. Luckily, JayHawk (who is in the military) took that guy to task.

So, I find myself neither satisfied or comfortable with either political party. I guess I'm in a flux right now because I'm trying to find out where I will land.

Just_Believe18 said:
And don't accuse the community of personally attacking people if members disagree with you. Everyone knows about you, and this kind of fake, inciting material will only increase the negative reaction from the community who refuses to be taken in as fools.
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I don't think it's "fake, inciting material". I was referring to a topic (& blog posting) by a gay conservative on a well-read gay conservative blog.

The fact that a conservative in this thread said himself, "equality is a horrid word," further leads me to believe that I was right on the money with this one.
 
Which you damn well know will get you this response, which opinions you damn well know we are all aware of, which you tediously bring up again and again - never offering anything new (since I first noticed you) and presenting nothing the great majority of us haven't heard from other people far more erudite than you - which you damn well know.

Honestly, do you think that anything you say hasn't been horribly beaten to death long before you came along?

I don't even think you are a conservative, I think you want attention, and have self esteem issues enough that you think it should be negative.

There isn't an original political thought, or interpretation in the whole of your posting history that I've ever seen, it's all verbatim regurgitation of far right wackos you presents as if it's thought provoking or somehow overlooked or "new." Which we all are quite familiar with - which you damn well know.

The fact that JayQueer in this thread said himself, "if you disagree with someone, then suddenly the personal insults & attacks come flying," further leads me to believe that I was right on the money with this one.

See you know what will cause the shit storm, and you deliberately go there without an original thought at all - because discussion or even argument, is not what you are after.
 
mitchymo said:
The same old conservative nonsense.
I tell you something, conservatives are fantastic when there is one key goal to achieve because that becomes their sole focus. Being generally narrow minded about almost everything, they can't ever argue against the inevitable (tho they constantly do so) where that inevitabilty stems from the general populations desire to progress. If they'd care to factor into the equation, democracy, rather than just what the governmental role in society is, then we would all progress a hell of a lot faster.
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oh, my!

"Progress" implies a universality of values, hence goals, not yet achieved, hence, a need for social and political engineering to achieve that utopian vision.

The result is polities regimented from above, and a dehumanization of those below, into engineering categories, that are supposed to want and need the same things; e.g., as a "gay", I am supposed to subscribe to a particular sett of values, wants, and needs, and may not, as an individual, have any values, wants, or needs, that conflict with that ascribed set.
 
TX-Beau said:
LOL I saw the thread title and I just knew it was JayQueer. Still singing this same tired old ditty are we. The only pattern here is that you post incendiary crap knowing you'll get shit for it.

I picture you sitting there at your computer in your parents basement furiously flogging your cock in the ecstatic throes of your victim complex.

What you did was post one persons opinion and pretended that this guy was somehow spokesperson for a demographic you made up in your head (that would be the hordes of gay conservatives for whom this guy supposedly speaks.)

You don't post any personal opinions (and indeed I've never seen you post an argument) because I suspect what you are really after is the sweet angst of believing yourself martyred.
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I imagine him fiercely masturbating as he watches his thread’s view counts go up. Or any time he get quoted or mentioned.
 
Ahhhhh

Once again Jayqueer. You are caught out.

And this time, there's no one left to carry the ball for you.

As almost everyone has noted....you have nothing new or different to offer. We've seen this same thread and the same garbled pro-life, pro-military, anti-government arguments ad infinitum from you over the last six months.

You simply were sloppy in the way you posted this thread. Possibly on purpose or possibly because you really still don't understand the guidelines for posting on JUB for some bizarre reason after all this time.

At the very least though, this is probably the first thread in CE&P where you didn't infer that liberal guys are somehow femmy and inferior or didn't immediately deflect the topic by gushing about how hot straight, white, Republican males are. And for that, we thank you.

Oh. And by the way. Cut the bullshit argument about Democrats not being 'for the troops'. I've yet to meet one American anywhere who doesn't express support for the military personnel in the execution of their job. But that doesn't equate to some kind of mindless devotion to the militaristic opportunism or strategic fuck-ups by all the political and military figures at the top. To equate the two is to put yourself in the position of all those empty headed idiots throughout history who have followed tyrants and beasts and false causes in the name of 'patriotism'. One of the responsibilities in any healthy democracy is to question and challenge the purpose, goals and mode of execution of any war.

So stop equating being a liberal with being anti-patriotic. It is the kind of thing that poli-op trolls do. It is not the kind of thing that balanced, nuanced thinkers do.
 
JayQueer said:
I shared what gay conservatives believe about the concept of "equality" which is commonly used by liberals & the gay community.
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As if none of us here have ever heard what "conservatives believe about the concept of "equality."

So let's get beyond this shall we?

If GOP Gay Conservatives are trying to find another "word" to use within the rank and file of the Republican Party, no matter what "word" you use, you'll never convince the "social conservatives" within the GOP.

NEVER! [-X

You constantly bad mouth the Democratic Party, but the LGBT Community already has a prominent seat AT THE TABLE within their precincts, districts, and State Caucuses.

They don't have to go "hat in hand" begging for acceptance.

GOProud, and the Log Cabin Republicans aren't even allowed a recognized "caucus" within their own Party, or even allowed to "purchase booth space" at ANY REPUBLICAN Conventions, in any State that I'm aware of.

So if using a word like "equality" is too incendiary within the GOP, then you Gay Conservatives should be able to call it whatever you want.

Just keep in mind that the Democratic Party is already DECADES ahead of the Republican Party.

My personal opinion?

It could be because "Gay Conservatives" have yet to earn the respect "power brokers" with the GOP, and the only way that they've been able to do so is by staying in the closet.

That's the "choice" presented by Republicans.

'Well take your money, now go back into the closet and STFU.'

Now Democrats tell us the same thing, except we stop giving the Democratic Party ANY money, and become even more vocal about it.

All the while still maintaining a "seat at the table."

So when you or the "gay conservatives" are even allowed into the same convention hall whenever Republicans "caucus" together, as openly Gay then you might be able to pass some judgement, and do some "name calling" against the "liberal-socialist-left-wing-cock-suckers."

Until then some of us will continue to mock you, laugh at you, and hold you in contempt.

Many of us have already made our "compromises" to be accepted within the Democratic Party.

You're not winning any support by blaming those "West Hollywood" Gays as the reason why they and the California Republicans don't like so called "Republican Gay Conservatives."

Many of us out here in the real world, wonder why many "Republican Gay Conservatives" even exist.

The Republican Party Platform neither recognizes, or acknowledges your existence until it's time to raise money, or help them to get out the vote for candidates who openly campaign against the rest of your LGBT brother's and sisters while gladly accepting your hard earned money in campaign contributions.

As I've shared here in CE&P before, I'm a credentialed member of the Texas State Democratic Party.

I'm Gay, and Open within the Texas Democratic Party.

When it comes time to "caucus" within my Party, I caucus as a Precinct Chair, I caucus within my Senatorial District, and I caucus with the Stonewall Democrats.

My voice is one of many voices, and we don't all agree everything.

But we do agree that we're all Americans first.

Republicans seem to require a litmus test, and the fact that Gay Conservatives Suck Dick, automatically disqualifies you as not only an American, but also as a Republican.*

*Unless you're married, in the closet, and don't request anything that "sounds like" equality.

So booya! ;)
 
To me equality smacks of communism. WE should not have the right to marry as a man and a woman should. We should have extensive tests before we give blood.
 
Marriage is a religious right, not a civil one.
 
GayLad87 said:
Marriage is a religious right, not a civil one.
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True.

Just another tired old "conservative" argument.

Here in America "marriage" doesn't exist without a "civil certificate" issued by the local Registrar's office (The Government).

Mickey Mouse could "marry" you, but unless he's "given the power, vested" by the State it's not considered "legitimate."

The "Church" can do (or not do) whatever it likes, but if they're going to tell me that I can't have a "marriage" with another man then they damned well should start paying taxes on their assets.

Otherwise, either swing open the doors, or STFU about it.

Just saying. ..|
 
GayLad87 said:
To me equality smacks of communism. WE should not have the right to marry as a man and a woman should. We should have extensive tests before we give blood.
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Well. you are wrong.

Marriage is as much a legal and civil institution as religious. Has been for centuries. So there.

And homos should not have to give any more extensive tests before donating blood than heterosexuals. Anyone who checks the box saying they have had multiple sexual partners and unprotected sex should fail.

But I see that it seems we're going to enjoy having another reactionary homo-hating troll to deal with on the boards as we head into this festive season and new year.

Oh. And the equation of equality with communism betrays a serious gap in comprehension skills. It is the resort of the ill educated....and often by those who are a significant distance away from the upper end of the food chain.

I'll be looking forward to it.
 
GiancarloC - that has GOT to be baiting.
 
GiancarloC said:
I don't think it is baiting. If a moderator thinks so they can edit it and I apologize. His argument was not making a distinction between economic and legal equality.

Again, if it is perceived as baiting, I apologize. That wasn't my intention.
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No, I think that TxBeau is saying that the other poster is just baiting.

I would agree.

Although I fear it may be more like trolling than baiting. The gratuitous references tossed in about blood screening smacks of something that lives under the bridge.
 
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