Why not a 'bailout' for the Unemployed

[Homoerectus]

I agree. Use old school buildings as daycare centers. Put the unemployed and welfare people to work. Use old school buses to pick them up and take them to and from work. Let them separate garbage, Burn combustibles to generate electricity. Sell plastics and glass to recyclers. Have them pick up garbage on the roads, cut grass on the roads. If they miss a day at work, dock them a days pay. Give then a physical exam under Medicaid to ensure they are healthy.

 

[Horschallen]

And have those financial executives return their $1.6 billions in bonuses they received shortly after the bailout. These money will certainly be appreciated by the people you are proposing.

 

[justapixel]

I agree. Use old school buildings as daycare centers. Put the unemployed and welfare people to work. Use old school buses to pick them up and take them to and from work. Let them separate garbage, Burn combustibles to generate electricity. Sell plastics and glass to recyclers. Have them pick up garbage on the roads, cut grass on the roads. If they miss a day at work, dock them a days pay. Give then a physical exam under Medicaid to ensure they are healthy.

Then we can fire the current daycare providers, garbage transfer workers, garbage men and people who cut grass.

Then we can hire those people to do ... oh wait.

 

[justapixel]

give each able and willing body $2,500.00/month (Federal Monies) to perform 'duties' (clerical to manual labor) as prescribed by local mayors within their cities.

individual 'Jobs' last for 12 months , program runs for 3 yrs.

This could be Obama's New Deal

How many would show up? What would this cost the US Tax Payers? Money well spent?

A lot of people would show up.

Anyone making less thank 30k a year would show up.

This means Wal-Mart, McDonalds etc would not be able to hire workers. The new minimum wage will be 30k a year.

Expect massive inflation as Wal-Mart, McDonalds raise prices to pay their employees the new minimum wage.

 

[cityboy-stl]

Perhaps if they would do something about all the jobs being shipped overseas or given to imported foreigners, a lot of Americans would be able to go back to work.

 

[White Eagle]

I swear that every time I need to talk to someone in technical section of Time Warner I get someone from India. Either the job is over there or they hired someone who cannot speak english well enough to talk to a Texan.
Go figure.

 

[cityboy-stl]

Ye it's called cut business and corporate hidden taxes so that you don't scare away business owners to hire Americans, and stop union abuse of power.

Well that's the republican mantra about it. How is cutting corporate taxes going to stop outsourcing? Cutting corporate taxes just means more corporate money in the hands of the corporation which would go to bigger executive bonuses and perks and continually higher profits at the expense of the American worker.

Republican trickle down economics is a failure. Mink coats don't shed. They're not going to hire more American workers if their taxes are lowered. They will keep it for themselves and continue to outsource until they have destroyed the jobs of all their customers and no one can buy their products and they create a serious recession. Oh wait...they already did that.

If you cut corporate taxes, the cut should be an incentive to hire Americans and be contingent upon it. There should be a tax penalty for outsourcing. Corporations should pay FICA, Medicare and Federal payroll tax at a 100% rate on every dollar spent on foreign labor for a start. Make it less profitable to outsource. That's the way to stop it.

I will agree with on you on unions though. We do need to get unions control. However, one thing - Corporations have only themselves to blame for unions. If they had treated their employees right in the first place there never would have been a need for unions.

 

[cityboy-stl]

^ "Let them eat cake".. got it.

 

[Kulindahr]

This ABC blog got me thinking on this

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/01/prez-elect-make.html

600,000 new government jobs.
At prolly $50/yr.
That's $30 billion in new spending.
And Clinton said the era of big government was over....

Then we can fire the current daycare providers, garbage transfer workers, garbage men and people who cut grass.

Then we can hire those people to do ... oh wait.

If you're hiring people to do jobs for people who can't pay for those things, or things that aren't getting done already, you don't bother the existing service providers at all.

There are lots of things around this county that don't get done because the unions keep wages so high that people can't afford them. So do things at lower wages for those who can't afford the union folks.
It might even teach the unions to be more realistic in their expectations.

 

[Kulindahr]

A lot of people would show up.

Anyone making less thank 30k a year would show up.

This means Wal-Mart, McDonalds etc would not be able to hire workers. The new minimum wage will be 30k a year.

Expect massive inflation as Wal-Mart, McDonalds raise prices to pay their employees the new minimum wage.

Absolutely.
Any program like this should be for just under the minimum wage, like by 25 cents/hour.

I think you need to brush up on the Great Depression and FDR's record. The New Deal was a broad economic/regulatory initiative (think FDIC, SEC, Deptartment of Labor, etc.). The WPA was a subsidiary, subordinate part of the New Deal. as such, your notion "Obama's New Deal" should read "Obama's new WPA."

The WPA concept is one I could support, for something like this. There are highways, bridges, trails, and parks all over which would never have been built except for WPA. That's where the focus should go, if a program like this would be done: focus on projects that will aid in generating wealth, which means a lot of infrastructure work.

Well that's the republican mantra about it. How is cutting corporate taxes going to stop outsourcing? Cutting corporate taxes just means more corporate money in the hands of the corporation which would go to bigger executive bonuses and perks and continually higher profits at the expense of the American worker.

Except that the U.S. already has some of the highest corporate taxes in the world, which drives jobs overseas where it isn't so bad. We should drop corporate taxes down to match the average of the EU, our two neighbors, and Japan. More jobs would stay here.

Besides that, you can't tax a company, you can only tax the customers -- where else do you think the money to pay taxes comes from?

 

[cityboy-stl]

Absolutely.
Except that the U.S. already has some of the highest corporate taxes in the world, which drives jobs overseas where it isn't so bad. We should drop corporate taxes down to match the average of the EU, our two neighbors, and Japan. More jobs would stay here.

Boy you sure have a lot of confidence in the honor and integrity of corporations. I frankly have zero confidence that "more jobs would stay here" if they cut the corporate tax rate. I think they would just use it to further line their own pockets. As I said, I would be in favor of cutting the corporate tax rates if the cut were legally contingent upon jobs returning and jobs staying here. Corporations should only receive a tax cut that is in proportion to American jobs returning and/or staying here in America. And they should pay tax in the form of FICA, Medicare and payroll tax on every dollar of outsourced labor. We need more money for Social Security, that's one way to raise it, an outsourcing tax.

What you seem to be saying is "Trust me, give me a tax cut and I promise more jobs will stay here" Sure...Right. "I also have subprime mortgages to sell you...trust me".

 

[cityboy-stl]

So? Does someone have a gun to your head to use Time Warner? You have options. But the funny thing next to never does anyone really put their money where their mouth is, and refuse to work with a corporation that outsources. Same thing goes for all those who bitch and moan about China stealing all the jobs. Yet one glance into their closets and around their homes, and you see tons of clothes, electronics, and home furnishings they bought for cheap made in China. Far easier to just bitch about it rather than do something about it. Why should a company change when most customers are only concerned about price and nothing else.

I have AT&T DSL, I call customer service and get India. What you suggest may have been an effective tool at one time but now is not realistic. If I refused to work with corporations who outsource I would have to become Amish. I try my damnedest to not buy products from China but it is impossible. So I and everyone else have no choice but to fight and bitch and moan about it. When was the last time you tried buy electronics, clothes, home furnishings not made in China?

What you've said is frankly impossible to do. I need a new coffee maker. Find me one Made in the U.S.A. and I'll buy it. Every single one I've looked at says Made in China.

 

[letme]

http://www.usstuff.com/esprsmch.htm
If you like fancy coffees

http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/bamw/bamw-041206-bunn.shtml

Plain Coffee

Cityboy here ya go. Hope you have some cash however !

 

[Kulindahr]

Boy you sure have a lot of confidence in the honor and integrity of corporations. I frankly have zero confidence that "more jobs would stay here" if they cut the corporate tax rate. I think they would just use it to further line their own pockets. As I said, I would be in favor of cutting the corporate tax rates if the cut were legally contingent upon jobs returning and jobs staying here. Corporations should only receive a tax cut that is in proportion to American jobs returning and/or staying here in America. And they should pay tax in the form of FICA, Medicare and payroll tax on every dollar of outsourced labor. We need more money for Social Security, that's one way to raise it, an outsourcing tax.

What you seem to be saying is "Trust me, give me a tax cut and I promise more jobs will stay here" Sure...Right. "I also have subprime mortgages to sell you...trust me".

A lot of companies would rather keep jobs here, but between taxes and unions they can't afford to.
I've elsewhere suggested that companies with overseas business which have all their manufacturing jobs in the U.S. should get a serious tax break.

I wouldn't put an outsourcing tax on any company whose jobs stay in the western hemisphere. We need to encourage prosperity in our own backyard, not overseas.

 

[MrWright]

A lot of people would show up.

Anyone making less thank 30k a year would show up.

This means Wal-Mart, McDonalds etc would not be able to hire workers. The new minimum wage will be 30k a year.

Expect massive inflation as Wal-Mart, McDonalds raise prices to pay their employees the new minimum wage.

I don't think I've ever read your post and agreed with you (at least in full)

But you are 100% right. People who say things like 'give money to the unemployed' don't get inflation - or standard rules of economics for that matter.

It's sad but you need some form of poverty (this is where I view things can be malleable) to have wealth.

 

[MrWright]

I have AT&T DSL, I call customer service and get India. What you suggest may have been an effective tool at one time but now is not realistic. If I refused to work with corporations who outsource I would have to become Amish. I try my damnedest to not buy products from China but it is impossible. So I and everyone else have no choice but to fight and bitch and moan about it. When was the last time you tried buy electronics, clothes, home furnishings not made in China?

What you've said is frankly impossible to do. I need a new coffee maker. Find me one Made in the U.S.A. and I'll buy it. Every single one I've looked at says Made in China.

You can't find them (at least even close to reasonably) because they don't exist.

The US is not a manufacturing power anymore - we've moved into service industries as our authority. The blue collar world is dying out and to try and force products other nations now make cheaply back into the US would just quickly bankrupt all of us.

Stories of the White house spending a few thousand on toilet seats isn't too unreasonable if we defy supply and demand rules.

 

[Kulindahr]

You can't find them (at least even close to reasonably) because they don't exist.

The US is not a manufacturing power anymore - we've moved into service industries as our authority. The blue collar world is dying out and to try and force products other nations now make cheaply back into the US would just quickly bankrupt all of us.

Stories of the White house spending a few thousand on toilet seats isn't too unreasonable if we defy supply and demand rules.

We need to be a manufacturing power again, because other countries are rapidly catching up to us in everything else.

Or we could build a space elevator when the materials are good enough, and own the Solar System.

 

[MrWright]

We need to be a manufacturing power again, because other countries are rapidly catching up to us in everything else.

Or we could build a space elevator when the materials are good enough, and own the Solar System.

Perhaps but to properly be a manufacturing power we'd need to sell materials at at least comparable prices to other competitors and I'm pretty sure NO ONE in the US wants to take a wage cut as dramatic as would be necessary to achieve that.

However, I'm down with the solar system space elevator...new meaning to space race.

Philosophical question: how many 'stories' would a space elevator have? I'd assume beginning and destination but what's the end in an indefinable mass?

 

[Kulindahr]

Perhaps but to properly be a manufacturing power we'd need to sell materials at at least comparable prices to other competitors and I'm pretty sure NO ONE in the US wants to take a wage cut as dramatic as would be necessary to achieve that.

However, I'm down with the solar system space elevator...new meaning to space race.

Philosophical question: how many 'stories' would a space elevator have? I'd assume beginning and destination but what's the end in an indefinable mass?

Well, 'balance point' would be at geosynch, which is like 42k km up there. A base station would be sunk deep into the bedrock, maybe 50 floors deep with anchor pits going perhaps a half kilometer. At the top, balance mass would be strung out beyond the balance point so the whole mass would be effectively in orbit. Its center of mass would not be at geosynch once finished, though, due to some rather interesting orbital dynamics. To keep a bit of tension on the cable, mass (another station) would be put at the "top", to tighten it after the fashion of a rock spun on the end of a rope.
The mass has been defined, approximately; it would be a minimum of a million metric tons of just cable; the rest would depend on the structures hooked to it.

BTW, there's already a consortium of businessmen with funds pledged to build the thing once a material is available to make the cable. Labs all around the world are working on "buckytubes" of carbon, which are calculated to have more than enough strength. If built, the cost to get a load from the ground to geosynch orbit would drop from the order of $11k US to about $250 US.
Whoever builds it could effectively own the solar system, since cables could then be dropped on Mars, etc. -- and loads to the outer system could be launched by the simple expedient of dropping them off the outer end.


Heh -- I just edited the Wiki article....



note: building such a thing would employ a LOT of people!

 

[MrWright]

Well, 'balance point' would be at geosynch, which is like 42k km up there. A base station would be sunk deep into the bedrock, maybe 50 floors deep with anchor pits going perhaps a half kilometer. At the top, balance mass would be strung out beyond the balance point so the whole mass would be effectively in orbit. Its center of mass would not be at geosynch once finished, though, due to some rather interesting orbital dynamics. To keep a bit of tension on the cable, mass (another station) would be put at the "top", to tighten it after the fashion of a rock spun on the end of a rope.
The mass has been defined, approximately; it would be a minimum of a million metric tons of just cable; the rest would depend on the structures hooked to it.

BTW, there's already a consortium of businessmen with funds pledged to build the thing once a material is available to make the cable. Labs all around the world are working on "buckytubes" of carbon, which are calculated to have more than enough strength. If built, the cost to get a load from the ground to geosynch orbit would drop from the order of $11k US to about $250 US.
Whoever builds it could effectively own the solar system, since cables could then be dropped on Mars, etc. -- and loads to the outer system could be launched by the simple expedient of dropping them off the outer end.


Heh -- I just edited the Wiki article....



note: building such a thing would employ a LOT of people!

I think that would definitely outdo New Deal building projects.

Kind of a modern day Giza.