Will the Catholic Church Fix the Problem?

[Shepherd 2]

The contributions towards this thread have convinced me that there is some work to do to understand what the problem is that faces the Catholic Church. Yes, someone has to admit there is a problem. The system must be willing to be reformed where it is in error. Care for the real victims must be given. Criminals must be investigated, charged and criminally tried in the state courts. Guilty people must be imprisoned and kept there. Above all, children must be kept safe.

I have observed a lot of anger since I arrived at JUB about the pain the Church has brought to many gay and lesbian people, and it is time to set things right. It is a systemic issue and Criostoir, and since the Church system seems to be unwilling to reform itself, the states must insist and force the issue.

Finally, there is the old axiom that money talks. It is true that if the Church realized there will be a loss of a lot of income, leaders within the church will begin, perhaps reluctantly, to make the required changes. Otherwise, we may truly be living in the post Christian era.

Shep+

 

[Críostóir]

It is a systemic issue and Criostoir, and since the Church system seems to be unwilling to reform itself, the states must insist and force the issue.

I think it's actually beyond unwilling. I think it's UNABLE to reform itself because its structure is designed to resist change of any kind.

Finally, there is the old axiom that money talks. It is true that if the Church realized there will be a loss of a lot of income, leaders within the church will begin, perhaps reluctantly, to make the required changes. Otherwise, we may truly be living in the post Christian era.

I wouldn't go that far. Remember that the Roman Catholic Church is only one denomination (though it's pretty large). Even if every Catholic in the world suddenly became an atheist, we wouldn't be in the post-Christian era, just the post-Catholic era.

And that's not likely to happen. Some people will stay with the RCC no matter what; some will find other denominations; some few will be completely turned off on Christianity, but not (IMO) very many. Almost all current Catholics will realize that it's the Church that failed them, not Christ.

 

[Negasta]

Why would we want the Catholic Church to fix the problem/recover?

If any secular organization was linked to/involved with as much sexism, racism, homophobia, (cover-ups of) child abuse/rape and oppression of opposing world views as the the Catholic Church, nobody here would argue that it should be saved/fixed. We would all be agreeing that it should be extirpated. But because the Catholic Church is a religious organization there are actually people (many of whom aren't even members of that feted grouping) who think it it should be saved.

The whole reeking edifice should be dismantled and its leaders (especially the rape cover-uppers) should be tried and sent to prison. This should have been done after World War 2, when the Vatican should have been extirpated along with the fascists they so gleefully supported during the 1930's-1940's and helped to escape justice afterward.

 

[Shepherd 2]

I think it's actually beyond unwilling. I think it's UNABLE to reform itself because its structure is designed to resist change of any kind.



I wouldn't go that far. Remember that the Roman Catholic Church is only one denomination (though it's pretty large). Even if every Catholic in the world suddenly became an atheist, we wouldn't be in the post-Christian era, just the post-Catholic era.

And that's not likely to happen. Some people will stay with the RCC no matter what; some will find other denominations; some few will be completely turned off on Christianity, but not (IMO) very many. Almost all current Catholics will realize that it's the Church that failed them, not Christ.

Criostoir,
Thanks for a very thoughtful response. I guess on the first count, I want whatever church I am associated with the always be prepared to change or just die. We would be better off with the change.

Secondly, on the next point, I stand corrected by you. I like what you had to say, although I find the outcome you speak of sad.
Thanks,
Shep+