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Women and Children First?

jonnyboy

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A buddy and I were talking last night about the miracle on the Hudson,and how they were shouting out "women and children first", while they were evacuating, the plane. I know it is a long held tradition, way before the Titantic. We both questioned each other about that. We both agreed children should always be first,but the later we were not so sure. Should an 85yr. old woman, go before a 25 yr. old man who has his own kids, if their was only one more slot left on a lifeboat? Is a woman's life "always" more important than a mans?
 
"You chivalrous fool! As if the way one falls matters."

"When the fall is all there is, it matters."

From The Lion in Winter

I have also thought about that. I don't think its a question of which life is more valuable, but which person is more likely to survive under harsher conditions. Its a bit sexist to assume a woman will not survive as well as a man, but back in the day it was a forgone conclusion.

Please forgive me for telling a side but related story. My mother used to say that she hoped that if anything happened the whole family would die together because it would be so devastating to the survivors. I bought that for awhile and then I said, "You're old. I'm young. I think I'll get over it." Moms told me I was a hateful child.
 
Women and Chilren first as long as I can still reasonably escape/go wherever everyone is going. If space is limited, well, I like me more than I like strangers.
 
always heard from the media "women & children" 1st which is stupid.

i would judge who ever is more valuable.
In your example, a 25 yo man is difinitely more valuable than an 85 yo woman. I would let her go last (no offense). :)
 
I think it goes back to the very primitive and basic desire to see the clan/tribe/race survive.

Women were needed to birth future members, it wouldn't have taken more than a few men to impregnate them. Even the surviving boys would be up to that task in a few years time.
 
But what if, that 85yr is raising her grandchildren. Kids 10 and 12yr old. Grandma is quite healthy and has good genes. The 25yr old man is a drug addict and a pedophile..

Who is more valuable and how do you tell in a very short time from the equation set forth by the OP.

according to your answer "what if" is a big word.

What if
that 85 yo woman only have 1 more year to live ?
 
I would consider myself something of a chauvanist if I were to give up my seat on a life boat to a woman. Would want to be condescend to her now, would I?
 
The tradition goes back to 1852. The captain of HMS Birkhead said "Every man for himself" when a ship was sinking, and there were about 20 women and children on board. One of the commanding officers, thinking that the women and children would probably get swamped in the rush for the boats, ordered the soldiers to stand back so that they could get onto the boat first.

People have just held onto the tradition, even though it doesn't really make sense that any particular people need to go first if there's an orderly way of getting people out of an emergency situation (you could argue children, in which case their parents should go with them--regardless of their gender).

But alas, our culture still believes that women are inherently weaker than men, so it's probably not something that will be going away any time soon (and I doubt many women will be complaining about it).
 
Women are more more capable of bringing up children than men are.
Nonsense.
I would consider myself something of a chauvanist if I were to give up my seat on a life boat to a woman. Would want to be condescend to her now, would I?
Yup. Women get to vote, they get to drown like the rest of us. They can go into military combat roles too, while they're at it.
For some gay guys this maybe a confusing rule,:twisted: but for thousands of years, women and children were always first because they are considered weaker when it comes to physical survival and men always rather see that 85 year old woman go first because she is someone's mother, grandmother etc.
And the 85 year old man is someone's grandfather. If it was my family, I would have put grampa in the boat and tossed the old cow into the sea.
Lumping women with children is a very, very old thing.

We hear it when people talk about civilian deaths in war...."X amount of women and children were killed."

Do I feel that this is an outdated tactic? Absolutely.

Do I find it insulting to both men AND women? Yeppers.

There is human kindness, or there is not. Sex and age should have no bearing on whom we help and support in life.
Yup!
Do they shout 'a/s/l' when they do this? :confused:

LOL!:-)
 
But alas, our culture still believes that women are inherently weaker than men, so it's probably not something that will be going away any time soon (and I doubt many women will be complaining about it).

Women aren't weaker when it comes to survival, but we lack the upper body strength to fight off a man (or even a boy) for a space in the boat or for a life jacket. Additionally, the stereotype is that women are nice and polite and wouldn't start biting or stabbing or kicking a guy in the balls in order to get into the boat. Allegedly, all the women would perish. That, and the raising of the babies, is why I think this rule is so common. Personally, I don't care one way or the other. I have no children and have had a great life. I'd like to think that I'd give up my life in order to save another persons.

Nonsense.

Yup. Women get to vote, they get to drown like the rest of us. They can go into military combat roles too, while they're at it.

And the 85 year old man is someone's grandfather. If it was my family, I would have put grampa in the boat and tossed the old cow into the sea.

Yup!


LOL!:-)


In the U.S. women are not allowed to serve combat roles (which comes w/ a higher pay) but they are on the front lines of the fight. It's silly. Let 'em be drafted, be in the infantry, and pay them just like the male soldiers. They are there anyway. :rolleyes:

We can keep grandpa, he'll make useful shark bait for later. Or, we may have to eat him. And let's face it, most folks are going to be more willing to murder gramps later on, then they will be to murder granny. So, yeah, he can stay until he's needed to serve a "greater purpose." ;)

But, if we're really talking about survival of the fittest, why are we so adamant about saving the children? Think about it. It makes no sense at all. If we're marooned, those kiddies won't be able to help build the shelter or search for food. They aren't strong enough to lift things and they are more likely to get sick. If our plane crashes in the snow, the kids are more likely to catch hypothermia. If we crash in the ocean, the children are more likely to dehydrate. Plus, you'd have to deal w/ their crying, their fears, and their whining. If they perish, their bodies aren't large enough to fill everyone's tummy (sure, we have gramps, but we might be in danger for a long while) and teens need a lot of food in order to survive. Children aren't as intelligent as adults and do not have the survival skills of adults. They aren't an asset.

This is survival of the fittest. The men have the upper body strength, but women have heels, and mace, etc. Let' em fight it out. At least one woman will get a good kick in to the guys nuts, or will be able to spray the dude w/ her mace, and she'll get on the raft. The kids, older folks, and disabled, will all get the shit beat out of them and maybe even killed by these men who are insistent on survival. That'll help the woman who isn't quit willing to kill off a child. And there ya have it. We have enough healthy and capable males and females who can continue the human race. ..|
 
Women aren't weaker when it comes to survival, but we lack the upper body strength to fight off a man (or even a boy) for a space in the boat or for a life jacket. Additionally, the stereotype is that women are nice and polite and wouldn't start biting or stabbing or kicking a guy in the balls in order to get into the boat. Allegedly, all the women would perish. That, and the raising of the babies, is why I think this rule is so common. Personally, I don't care one way or the other. I have no children and have had a great life. I'd like to think that I'd give up my life in order to save another persons.

Right, and in an "every man for himself" situation like where the tradition began, it made perfect sense. But in modern day situations where we already have proper protocols for this sort of thing, as long as it's organized, there's no need for anyone to be fighting anybody else off for life-jackets or boats.
 
LOL. The women can also swim longer in the ocean. A lot of the best endurance open-water swimmers have been women because they have a higher healthy level of body fat, which lets them survive in the water. So the fragile men need to get into the boat, and the women can swim alongside.
 
Right, and in an "every man for himself" situation like where the tradition began, it made perfect sense. But in modern day situations where we already have proper protocols for this sort of thing, as long as it's organized, there's no need for anyone to be fighting anybody else off for life-jackets or boats.

I'm not advocating that women and children should be protected. I just think that's why the thought of "women and children first," came about.

But sure, there are protocols and such for handling a disaster, but in reality, most folks PANIC and don't think about that in times of disaster. Every time we fly, the flight attendants explain how to handle a scenario if the plane should crash. Look around you and you'll notice that some folks are already asleep and hardly anyone is paying attn. Therefore, I have very little faith on those protocols. Additionally, those procedures are just meant to make you feel safe. If the plane crashes, you're probably going to die. If the boat sinks, you're probably going to die. And in those situations, I often wonder if it's better to die quickly in the plane, instead of getting out of the plane onto the raft, and being eaten by a shark or slowly dieing of dehydration.

These procedures sure seem organized when they're being explained, but as soon as the shit hits the fan, utter chaos will erupt. At that time, no one will think, "Hmmm...now I'm supposed to put my mask on before helping my child," and "Oh, we should save those who have kids." And seriously, we could all lie and claim to have babies in order to survive.
 
LOL. The women can also swim longer in the ocean. A lot of the best endurance open-water swimmers have been women because they have a higher healthy level of body fat, which lets them survive in the water. So the fragile men need to get into the boat, and the women can swim alongside.

Hell no. If the men are weaker for this type of survival, they have to die. It's survival of the fittest. If they can't cut it. Sorry. They're out of the raft and meant for shark bait. Well, I guess we'd have to keep one to continue the human race. Hope he's not gay. ;)

And no children at all are allowed. They can't row.
 
I would consider myself something of a chauvanist if I were to give up my seat on a life boat to a woman. Would want to be condescend to her now, would I?

LOL, the last couple of times I tried to give my seat to a woman on the bus (I only do this because sometimes they can't reach the rail) I got dirty looks and attitude.
 
The Fire

I just remembered today, the Jerry Seinfeld episode, where George pushes the women and children out of his way at a birthday party, during an apartment fire. Too funny! [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URvMd-pjSMc&feature=related[/ame]
 
LOL, the last couple of times I tried to give my seat to a woman on the bus (I only do this because sometimes they can't reach the rail) I got dirty looks and attitude.


Certainly wouldnae be the case if it were the last parachutte, eh?
 
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