Would I be a pederast

[Críostóir]

I have a friend who is now a registered sex offender, he was 18 and had sex with a 16 year old (both of them male), the 16 yr olds parents found out and had him arrested for molestation. My friend is now in his mid 20's and now has to register whenver he moves.

I hope the parents get gout, kidney stones, macular degeneration, and avascular necrosis, and live for 20 years in that condition before having disabling strokes and being fully conscious and aware but unable to move or speak, and live 40 more years that way.

 

[Level27]

Dang, Crios. A little harsh there.

Giorgiobaby, what would your friend's partner's parents have thought if the two were simply kissing each other, leaving the sex out of the picture? Would they still have accused your friend for 'child molestation?'

 

[KaraBulut]

Do elaborate on why you believe it's sad, KaraBulut. (If you can make your explanation more than just one or two measly sentences, it would be much preferred).

Also, I'd like to ask: Would you think that an 17 and a 21-year-old making out is sad?

Because a 20 year old making out with a 15 or 16 year old serves little purpose than to introduce the younger man to pleasures of the flesh and the elder man to the pleasures of the public justice system.

And- as a twenty year old- you might as well be in a Belgian fine chocolate shop asking if they carry Hershey bars.

I would typically say that the 20 year old could do better, but I suspect it might be the 15-16 year old who has that capability.


There... that's 3 measly sentences.

 

[BabiGayPimp]

So if two guys are dating, and one's 16 and the other's 17, and then they each have a birthday, the 18-year-old should "exercise adult judgement" and break it off?

I'm pretty sure you don't believe that.

And when I was one year out of grammar school I was 11. No one here is talking about 11-year-olds.

Criostoir, I see what you're getting at, but I still don't think it's any great hardship for a grown man to simply wait until his "true love" is 18 before initiating any sort of sexual contact.

You can dance around with all the "what it" scenarios you like, but the essential truth is, if you're an adult and your chosen lover is also and adult, not a child, you don't have these legal and ethical complications to contend with.

I'd hate to see somebody wind up in jail because he missed some technicality in the law that makes a kiss a felony. Do we really need these kinds of problem, seriously?

Grown-ups should stick with grown-ups and let those boys have their childhoods, undisrupted. And if you're a grown man fixated on 15 year olds, get a life! It's not worth it.

 

[giorgiobaby]

I hope the parents get gout, kidney stones, macular degeneration, and avascular necrosis, and live for 20 years in that condition before having disabling strokes and being fully conscious and aware but unable to move or speak, and live 40 more years that way.

I agree, harsh...but fair

 

[giorgiobaby]

Dang, Crios. A little harsh there.

Giorgiobaby, what would your friend's partner's parents have thought if the two were simply kissing each other, leaving the sex out of the picture? Would they still have accused your friend for 'child molestation?'

who knows why people act the way they do? You know how people get about their children, they probably overreacted and thought that by having him arrested would make their son not gay. Poor fools

 

[levenshulme31]

15/16 year olds may look and act like 25 year olds, 12 year olds or 15/16 year olds. (same goes for 20 year olds).

As it stands you could be accused of acting improperly towards a minor and could potentially incur the full wrath of a puritanical, paedophile obsessed justice system which could ruin your life. Moreso if your relationship was to go further than a kiss and a hug.

Look at the possible scenarios.
1. You and he are the perfect couple, destined to live happily ever after - in which case, keep it platonic until he's of legal age then you can live that dream.
2. You are a couple of horny young'uns who get off on each other, but as he's that bit younger than the law decrees, is it really worth the risk?
3. You are a horny guy lusting after a bit of younger flesh. Naughty but nice. Again is it worth the risk?
4. He is a horny youngster who is into you, his older buddy, at the moment and may even talk you into bed. But he (or his family) could then turn on you leading to criminal charges or blackmail or even a lynching.

The running theme here is: hold off for a couple of years.

 

[rareboy]

Pederasty or paederasty is portmanteau of the Greek prefix pedo, referring to child, and -erasty, a derivative of the Greek word referring to erotic love, eros. The term refers to an erotic relationship between an adolescent boy and an adult man outside his immediate family. Traditionally and according to modern usage, pederasty only refers to erotic relationships between two males. From the earliest times, pederasty has existed through a variety of customs and practices within different cultures. Pederasty has been criminalized at various times in history, and today its legal status in most countries is determined by whether or not the boy has reached the local age of consent

The wiki definition.

Hope this answers your original question.

 

[Críostóir]

Dang, Crios. A little harsh there

You should have seen the first version.

I agree, harsh...but fair

I prefer "imaginative and well-deserved."

who knows why people act the way they do? You know how people get about their children, they probably overreacted and thought that by having him arrested would make their son not gay. Poor fools

Yes, and they should be CRUSHED for using archaic laws in that fashion. I will spare no pity for them, preferring to save it for the young man whose life they ruined.

 

[BabiGayPimp]

BabiGayPimp, I can definitely appreciate your message, and to a degree, I agree with you. However, I'm not so much discussing pederasty from a legal standpoint than I am on from a cultural one. I should have mentioned that to Críostóir when I responded to his first reply.

You can spin it any way you want, but if you go around fucking 15 year olds, your ass will be put under the jail. These kinds of "cultural' inquiries are always disingenuous because what we really have here is a predator trying to rationalize his behavior and looking for any kind of support he can get. I for one am not buying it.

Are you really 20 years old or are you 40?

This whole line of inquiry doesn't seem to be the type of things 20 year olds waste their time on. They just find a willing 18 or 19 year old and get to business. They don't lurk around schoolyards lusting after children.

What do we really have here?

 

[midnight81]

I think people are forgetting what it's like to be 20 years old, or maybe are from a time when being 20 meant something different than it does now.

I'm 27 and when I was 20, I still had friends in high school. If I met someone who was 15 and he acted mature for his age and we happened to hit it off, I wouldn't have given a shit about his age. I was 20 years old and knew minimal gay people, had never dated and longed to have some sort of romantic connection. If I found that with someone only 5 years younger than me, I wouldn't have cared. I would have been smart and stayed away from sex until it was legal---and I knew what was legal at that point because I had looked it up when I was 16 and had just come out.

Being 20 and dating a 15 year old does not make the guy a pederast. A 20 year old might be a legal adult and eligible for arrest if he hooks up with someone considered a minor under the law, but I'll be damned if I consider any 20 year old a full adult in this day and age. It might've applied back in Ancient Greece when 16 was considered an appropriate marrying age, but nowadays 20 is still quite immature.

Babi, I think you're taking this and turning it into something a lot darker than it is and that disgusts me more than the idea of a 20 year old hooking up with a 15 year old. Level was asking a question in a friendly environment, and you're treating him like he's a dirty old criminal. Leave the kid alone.

 

[Level27]

The wiki definition.

Hope this answers your original question.

Yes it does, rareboy. Thank you.

(According to wikipedia, (although I don't always trust it)) I would not be considered a pederast because the 16-year-old is not an adolescent. And, making out may not necessarily be considered 'erotic'.

You can spin it any way you want but if you go around fucking 15 year olds, your ass will be put under the jail.

Ok, well that is speaking from a legal standpoint. The involvement of the jail was exactly what made it so.

My original question was intended to discuss whether or not pederasty/pedophilia would include such a relationship and/or kiss involving the two subjects of a 20-year-old and a 15/16-year-old, and that alone. Not whether or not there if there is some way such a case could be legal.

These kinds of "cultural' inquiries are always disingenuous because what we really have here is a predator trying to rationalize his behavior and looking for any kind of support he can get. I for one am not buying it.

The U. S. law is constantly changing. A case deemed illegal now may not be considered illegal in the future if it were to take place then. That said, according to your logic, I'd be a 'predator' now if I was with a 16-year-old but would not be a 'predator' when (and if) the law lowers the age-of-consent to 16 years of age in, say, 2019?

And by the way, some countries have a legal age that is lower than that in the U. S. For example, the age of consent between homosexual guys is 14 years of age in Brazil (source- http://www.glrl.org.au/publications/major_reports/age_of_consent/age_of_consent_07.htm). So, would a 21-year-old Brazilian guy be a 'predator' if he had sex with a 16-year-old Brazilian guy?

I hope you see the flaw in your argument that I am trying to point out to you.

Are you really 20 years old or are you 40?

Okay. Now, you are being rude and just getting out of hand. I'm 20.

This whole line of inquiry doesn't seem to be the type of things 20 year olds waste their time on. They just find a willing 18 or 19 year old and get to business. They don't lurk around schoolyards lusting after children.

But I'm not wasting my time on anything. I have a genuine question, and so, I come here to JUB to ask it. That's why we have JUB forums, right?

And as far as lusting after children, a 16-year-old is not a child who belongs to an elementary-school's playground, and I'm talking about a 15/16-year-old here.

What do we really have here?

Well, as far as whether or not I'm telling the truth about my 20 years of age, for proof, ask other JUB'ers who've seen me at a regional meet before (such as DarlingStacy, NineofClubs, Gdude30, MidnightPrism, PrairieLooner, Jory, Jay, JD and TheWiz, to name a handfull). Or, you can go to a JUB meet that I might be going to and find out.

You can dance around with all the "what it" scenarios you like, but the essential truth is, if you're an adult and your chosen lover is also and adult, not a child, you don't have these legal and ethical complications to contend with.

The 'what if' is exactly the reason that this thread existed in the first place.

Babi, I think you're taking this and turning it into something a lot darker than it is and that disgusts me more than the idea of a 20 year old hooking up with a 15 year old. Level was asking a question in a friendly environment, and you're treating him like he's a dirty old criminal. Leave the kid alone.

Midnight, thanks for your defense, but it's not really necessary. I think when BabiGayPimp said "you", he wasn't directing that at me personally; he was simply meaning a general, all-around "you".

Because a 20 year old making out with a 15 or 16 year old serves little purpose than to introduce the younger man to pleasures of the flesh and the elder man to the pleasures of the public justice system.

No, not always the case. What if it was the 15-16-year-old who made the first moves on the 20-year-old? Hey, how many gay high-schoolers lust after a college student and only wish that he would have just one night with said college hottie? See what I mean?

You know how people get about their children, they probably overreacted and thought that by having him arrested would make their son not gay.

Okay, so are you implying a "yes" to my question to you?

I don't see why anyone would willingly pursue anyone not of legal age of where they live.

As criostoir said (and I agree with him), sometimes, two people "can't help but fall in love". Also, in certain cases, the relationship both start as the two were minors and then one becomes 18 while the other one still has years or months to go before he does too.

 

[Level27]

Okay, so, we've already diverged from the original topic. I think I'll just simply let it go at that, because I feel that most of yous want to discuss a slightly different topic.

If a moderator could get rid of the "On-Topic discussion" label in the title, that would be nice. Thanks.

 

[Críostóir]

(According to wikipedia, (although I don't always trust it)) I would not be considered a pederast because the 16-year-old is not an adolescent. And, making out may not necessarily be considered 'erotic'.

I don't think 'adolescent' means what you think it means. A 16-year-old is certainly adolescent. In fact, depending on how you draw the line, so is a 20-year-old (when people talk about "adolescent brain development" they end around age 25).

I think you're thinking of 'pubescent', which means just beginning puberty (the biological part of adolescence). THAT's usually about 13-year-olds (for boys).

I looked through the Wikipedia article on Adolescence, and didn't find anything obviously wrong. Note that, for example, they talk about "the last stage of puberty" beginning around 17-19.

 

[Level27]

Having checked the Newbury House Dictionary of English, as well as dictionary.reference.com, I've concluded that, you're right.

Makes me question the term that I was taught back in middle-school. (Then again, I should have noted that my mother, no matter how good of an English speaker she is, did not speak English as a first language, so there you go)

At any rate, I guess wikipedia would call the 20-year-old a pederast.

 

[Críostóir]

I don't think the term 'pederast' is much used, at least west of the Atlantic. Reread my first post in this thread in light of what you know now.

 

[chatolandia]

Pedophilia refers to attraction to prepubescent children.

So, a 20 year old who made out with a 10 year old would be a pedophile.

A 20 year old who made out with a 15 year old would just be sad, but not a pedophile.

yeah but pederasty is different


and that's considered pederasty


even by the people that institutionalized it

Pederasty or paederasty is portmanteau of the Greek prefix pedo, referring to child, and -erasty, a derivative of the Greek word referring to erotic love, eros. The term refers to an erotic relationship between an adolescent boy and an adult man outside his immediate family.

 

[pallenk]

By law, yes. though 16 and 20 is not somethig i personally would consider bad. i mean you are kind of on the same social scene. i mean. 15 and 25 yeah i think that is crossing a line. but, i don't know. just be careful. and try to hang out with people your own age.

 

[Críostóir]

By law, yes. though 16 and 20 is not somethig i personally would consider bad. i mean you are kind of on the same social scene. i mean. 15 and 25 yeah i think that is crossing a line. but, i don't know. just be careful. and try to hang out with people your own age.

What you'll think of me, a 49-year-old in love with a 19-year-old, I can't imagine.

My boy is old enough, is how I see it.

 

[pallenk]

no a 49 year old with a 19 year old is okay by me. things would get kind of blurry if he were 15. especially when the law is concerned. i am not here to pass judgement. i would have dated and had sex with a 49 year old at 15. and i would have probably been the one who was totally in control of the situation. but, the difference between me at fifteen and me now is well...when i was 15, i didn't really have responsibilities or care which laws i was breaking. and i would not have had any backlash for sleeping with someone older. but, the 49 year old would have had to make the choice. is having a piece of ass worth going to jail for? my 15 year old ass would have been. haha. so, i think it is the responsibilty of someone older to kind of evaluate the pros and cons. and usually. there are people who aren't considered minors to go shag silly. so, it is a matter of what the law allows you to do and not your own moral standards. i don't think you are breaking any laws. so you are okay with the law. and definately okay by me.

to the thread starter. i think 15 and 20 is okay. i usually date people in a four or five year gap of my age. but, the law may not be on my side where you are from.