Would Love and Appreciate All Advice: Taboo Relationship (Rocky)

[Younger4older]

Hello all,

I am pleased that I have finally found an active forum dedicated to gay/bi relationship advice. I will try and make this as detailed as possible so you all can fully understand my relationship as best as possible! Bear with me though.

I am a 19 year old bisexual male in a relationship with a 48 year old bisexual male. This is my first relationship I have ever been in and a serious relationship at that. He is married to a woman and do live together, however they are separated and their relationship is strictly platonic (sleep in separate bedrooms on opposite ends of the house, their own money, non-sexual, etc.) I met this man on a dating/chat/hookup site and we both did not expect to fall in love with each other. I knew I liked him from the beginning and soon fell head over heels for him. And he did as well. We have been together for almost 10 months now. It took time and we did not necessarily jump into a relationship together. When I began to feel a feeling of love and compassion for him I was scared to tell him. He was however the first one to tell me that he loved me. I reciprocated as I truly did and do feel the same way.

He lives about an hour away from me but that has not stopped us from seeing each other and spending time with one another. I am a student and during the fall semester football games he would come up and see me. After that he continues to come see me and I continue to see him where he lives. I have been the first guy he has ever invited over to his home he says. We are both not out to anyone in our lives so our relationship is that of secrecy to those around us. He has three children, one of whom lives out of state, and the other is 23 with two children, and the other is a girl my age whom he is closest with. As our relationship has continued to grow our feelings for each other have grown as well and I am the one who voices and expresses these feelings often while he tends to hold things in, be more reserved in feelings, not as expressive if things are wrong or bothering him, etc. We are both masculine but I feel as though I often handle my feelings in this relationship as typically described by actions/feelings of females.

This is where I believe the problem lies in our relationship and where it stands as of now. Recently, his daughter (who is awesome. I have never met her but she seems great.) has asked him who I am, where he has met, etc. Before this he told me he believed that he would be able to tell her who I am and the feelings he has for me, but I think he has gotten scared and has recently been extremely withdrawn and disconnected from me. We don't talk for days and I finally reach out to him to ask him what's wrong, what can I do, what can we do, is everything okay, what is happening, etc. Not all at once of course but I do admit I ask these frequently because I am aware that communication is vital in a relationship. (perhaps one of the biggest key components in one.) He had first responded that he needed time to think things over, what he needs to do, where he wants our relationship to go, etc. I have nothing but respect for him and his feelings/emotions so I gave him time and asked if things have gotten better for him, time to think, etc. and really got nothing in return.

In this relationship, I can admit that I handle my emotions irrationally at times and often bug out on him which I am displeased with myself about. I pour my heart out to him and hear nothing back from, and get even more upset. This I believe is pushing him away more in a sense. This is my first time ever in a relationship, while he has already been through these emotions once before. My emotions are all over the place and I am the type of person that communicates with others to solve issues while he is not. I completely understand and accept this personality trait but I am not sure what to do at this point in our relationship. Do I give him his space for now and not contact him for a while? Do I wait for him to contact me? If he does contact me and does not bring up this issue, then what do I do? Can I approach him differently?

I have already told him that I respect his wishes and wants and am more than willing to give those to him. I have told him that my love for him is unconditional and that I love everything about him, flaws and all. This may sound odd, but my love for him has not diminished in anyway even though recently he has seemed to shut me out, been withdrawn, etc. It is a terrifying feeling that you may be losing the person you are in love with. However I have hopes that this is not the case and that maybe he needs a long while to figure things out. Or could I be wasting my time hoping for him to communicate with me about what is going on and what can we do together and individually?

He says that he is afraid that he can't give me everything I want and everything that he wants to give me because of his age he can't see it any other way. This is what he told me. It is heartbreaking to hear that but I honestly can see where he is coming from. He has had his life, lived it, wrote many chapters in his life, everything. I am just beginning mine and we both understand this about ourselves. Inter-generational relationships are extremely difficult for many reasons I can tell you that. I cannot say I understand where he is coming from fully with many things because I simply have not lived them.

I have no problem trusting him as he is completely honest with me whenever we have had these serious conversations and expressed our true feelings towards one another. Yes, he has expressed his feelings whenever I have asked him if something is wrong or whatever the situation has been. This time, it is though there has been a total shut out to me. I do not have a fear of him cheating on me or finding someone else and I am in no way interested in anyone else. The thought makes me sick to my stomach in fact if I were to be with someone else. He has done a lot of things for me, the biggest is love and trust. No one has ever been as trustworthy as he has been with me. Nobody, ever in my life aside from family. That is very telling in my life, and has made me appreciate who he is even more.

I am just severely concerned and want our relationship to work out and get through this. I know all relationships have their extreme highs and extreme lows. I just am lost in what to do from here and am seeking help with those who have experience in this field. I appreciate all advice and feedback. Thank you for reading this (I know it is lengthy haha). But if you have gotten this far then thank you so much. I hope I have described the situation as much as possible without writing a book (in which I am sure I could). If you need any more information then just let me know.

Thank you again,

Chris

 

[Seasoned]

Welcome to JUB, Chris.

I'm sensing you're using the word taboo because of the age difference, but that's not the case because you are of legal age. I'd call it taboo because of his marital status and secrecy. That piece isn't healthy for either of you. I was married to a woman when I met my husband so I am responding from a position of experience.

I would never believe any married person who states they are separated but live together in separate bedrooms. I suppose it can happen, but the amount of times that explanation is used is laughable.

I'm afraid you are both in a dangerous and creepy place and your boyfriend ought to shit or get off the pot. He's treating you as he would a mistress and the fact he is bringing you to his home is totally uncool. He is behaving with great immaturity, assuming he's entitled to everything he wants, expecting it will be ok with everyone else in his life.

You have alluded to the fact that his life is over while yours is just beginning. You are wrong. He has the rest of his life ahead of him and he is only trapped because he lacks courage. He runs the risk of losing everyone and everything. His daughter is going to be pissed. How would you feel if your mom or dad brought someone your age home and you later found out they were lovers?

In my opinion you need to run and not look back. No matter how "wonderful" you think he is, his insensitity to loved ones and his selfishness is out of control. To imagine that the two of you will walk off into the sunset is naive at best. These situations can also be dangerous.

You don't need this drama. Run fast and run far and make it a rule to find unattached partners.

I know you don't want to hear this and you think you're handling things and he has only told you the truth, but, even if that is all true, examine how much you are in love with the drama of this as opposed to how much you love him. I'm thinking the drama is part of the attraction.

I wish you well.

 

[altlover85]

You sound like a smart guy, so I'll give you my feeback. If any of it comes out harsh, I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm simply giving my opinion.

I'll be asking you some questions as well, since I find that can help people to figure things out and help other help them.

First off, if someone is cheating on someone else with you, you really have to question whether or not that person is being honest with you. That doesn't mean that everyone who cheats is going to be dishonest to you, but it's definitely a big possiblity. So you really have no idea how seperate their lives actually are.

Second, you should ask yourself what you want out of a relationship and if you are getting your needs met. You may love this man and he might love you, but love in and of itself may not always be sufficient to sustain a relationship. You've outlined communication difficulties and those don't really get better on their own for the most part.

What has he told you about the future of your relationship? Is he going to leave his wife? What have you said to him about what you've wanted out of the relationship and what has he said in response to that?

I am currently involved in an age gap relationship and they aren't easy. You can be compatible on a lot of levels outside of the physical, but if you have different goals, it can really make things difficult. Generally with someone your own age, you are at least at the same stage of your life to some degree, especially when you're younger, which definitely helps the relationship move more smoothly.

A lot of times when we get involved with someone that's unavailable, which is generally what someone who is maried is, we neglect the fact that this person really isn't available to us and romantize our relationship with them. I know I have done it in the past.

My advice to you would be to let him go for now and see if he contacts you. If he doesn't contact you in a month, I would move on and if you need closure, I would write him a good-bye letter, although I really think it's better to go no-contact with this guy because I think you could get pulled in again. I know that no-contact is extremely hard and it's not something I'm very good at, I'm simply giving you what I think is the overall best move you could do in this situation given what you've told us.

I honestly hope that if he does contact you he's willing to give some and be honest with you about where things are going.

Let us know how things go and I hope this helps.

If things don't work with this guy, I'm pretty sure you'll be able to find someone else. You are certainly aritculate enough.

Best wishes to you in your situation.

 

[Younger4older]

Thank you for your response. It is very insightful although extremely difficult to hear as you stated.

I guess I feel obligated to respond to your response if that is okay with you. I intend not to offend you or defend a situation which seems unhealthy in which I am knowledgeable of. I guess being inside his home, seeing where he sleeps, seeing where she sleeps, and the description of their status solidifies (in my mind) that there really is no physical/sexual relationship. He has said that they are good friends but have not done anything each other for years. I guess to me, being so young, I just simply appreciate his honesty. I don't necessarily look at the drama aspect of this. I guess I should be more specific when describing the situation in its entirety. Although it becomes difficult transcribing it form my mind and heart to hear sometimes.

I am confused though when you said he's entitled to everything he wants and expecting that everything will be okay with everyone in his life. I do apologize the way I worded I am beginning my life and his over, I did not mean it to sound like that. He has 30 years on me and, indeed, he still has a long life ahead of him. You would be correct in his lack of courage. I guess to me I don't fully understand it but I feel like he feels immense pressure on his part because I have come to where he lives, done things with his profession, gone places with him, etc. while he hasn't really been around my family or anything. I feel remorse in a sense because I do want him to come see me more often but due to certain personal circumstances (nothing to do with our relationship) he cannot come see me as often as both of us would like. I have stated to him that his family will love unconditionally no matter what the circumstances may be. In fact he has joked saying that if/when he comes out to them that they would say "I knew it! I knew it!"

To answer your question about my mother or father bringing home someone my age, I would be shocked and pissed for a very long time but true, unconditional love in my mind has no boundaries and would be supportive of that relationship as I want nothing but the best for my mother. Although this is easier said than done and would have to be physically put in the situation to know exactly what I would do. She is single, never been married, been heart broken many times and for her to find true love somewhere and have it work, I would cry in joy for her. My father has never been in my life.

I again, thank you very much for your response. I hope to hear back again from you.

 

[Younger4older]

To altlover85: Thank you as well for your reply. Very insightful but difficult to hear of course.

He has stated before our relationship really did begin that he has sought out getting a divorce and look for his own place far before we began to know eachother. I'm too young to know how divorce works although I know they can be messy. By definition, he is cheating on his wife. I feel bad of course, and have told him that I don't want her to get hurt but he has reassured me there would be no resentment towards me or the situation necessarily. As of right now he states that he needs time to figure out where he wants this to go and what he needs to do. He has told me that he would like to live with me and share more of his life with me than he already has. This of course, years down the road as I have to finish college. We are both not looking to jump into this and I am certainly not pressuring him to tell anyone if he is not comfortable and he is not pressuring me either. I stated he is seriously considering divorcing his wife, although has thought this before we have met. I have told that I would like to live with him as well and share my life with him. A mutual wanting.

As our relationship progresses I have learned SO much about who I am as a person, who others are, everything. I can say I am blessed to have fallen in love. Not contacting him will be the hardest part for me as I have stated I am gung-ho on communication. If ultimately this doesn't work out I have prepared myself to write him a goodbye email/letter giving justice to this situation. I at least deserve to that for myself as well as him.

Thank you for your advice again and I hope to hear from you.

 

[Rolyo85]

"Untitled" was supposed to be "entitled".

I would normally go into a cold water tirade here, but Seasoned has posted what I would have said, and altlover85 added the rest. If you've been here awhile, you'll know without me saying it, but in case you haven't, let me tell you that Seasoned's opinion is VERY much the opposite of what he would usually say. The fact someone with his huge experience is so adamant about what your course of action needs to be, should be a red flag for you.

There is nothing romantic about cheating. There is nothing beautiful about enabling a cheater. It's ugly, and it's abusive to literally everyone but the cheater, you included.

And if you were outside of the relationship, you'd see how fake it all seems.

 

[Ganoderma]

hi Chris,

Welcome to JUB and good to hear that you have found a way to express your issues. I don't bother about age differences between people who are adults, but I do see problems because both of you are closeted (though less deep that both of you might think).

You wrote:

We are both not out to anyone in our lives so our relationship is that of secrecy to those around us.

I tend to think that being in the closet for both of you is a main reason for all issues. How do you see your future in having a secret relationship to anyone around you? It is not the age difference, but it is the secrecy which is killing this relationship.

Is the wife of your friend also free to have a guy / bring back home a guy / lover / etc?

You wrote:

I am the type of person that communicates with others to solve issues.

So I was wondering why you are not willing to tell your friends that you have also sexual interest in guys / that you are engaged with a guy, etc.

Do you really think you can maintain a long-term friendship (=boyfriends of each other) which is hidden to anyone around you and to him? Likely, some people around you (or him) already have some thoughts?


Thanks in advance for some replies.

 

[Younger4older]

Thank you for your reply. Since is this my first relationship, I have come to learn much about myself. One thing my partner ad I have talked about his the coming out point in our relationship. I now know of particular people I would/will tell when both of us would be ready. We have stated we would be there for each other during that time. I think that in a period of time from now I will be ready to tell people in my life about my bisexuality and relationship. I think at this point my boyfriend is not ready for that, as I don't expect that from him right now or even in the near future. As far as his wife, I do not not know that information.

 

[Seasoned]

Hi Chris,

Thanks to Roylo85 for pointing out my typo. I went back and corrected it.

I know you are resistant to hearing what I've said and I know how most people have to plod through life and make their own joy and sorrow.

I laid out a warning. You want this to work out. Could it? We don't know, but the probability is slim due to the level of dishonesty.

I can't argue with you and won't because my intention is not to win an argument, but to save you grief and, like I've said, sometimes the only way we learn is through our mistakes rather than through someone else's.

You tout his honesty, but he is dishonest down to his core.

You speak of unconditional love as if it's a given; it's not.

He has expressed every gay married man's fantasy when he imagines the loving arms of his children around him when he tells them. Check in with a gay father's group to see what really happens.

My fantasy was that when I told my wife I was gay she'd respond she was lesbian and we'd both have a great chuckle.

I'm 66 years old, was married to my ex-wife for 14 years and have been with my husband 29. I am open to most things and forgive indiscretions because sex is powerful. But on-going clandestine relationships hurt both parties. One is enabled and the other robbed. Healthy relationships should come as close to 50/50 as possible. I write to you the way a loving grandfather would. I'm not judging you. I'm probably judging him, not because he's screwing around, but because he's falling in love and allowing others to fall for him. That's what was happening to me before I got honest. What miracle do you think will happen allowing you to become a step-parent to people older than you and a step-grandparent to their children?

If you, for whatever reason, had no other hope of otherwise being held and made love to, I'd have a different response.

 

[altlover85]

Chris, I'm just going to point out some flaws and questions I am finding in your thinking. Perhaps you can explain yourself better and/or I might be able to help you better analyze the statements that you have made.

I guess to me, being so young, I just simply appreciate his honesty. I don't necessarily look at the drama aspect of this.

I think what many of us are trying to communicate is that his honesty is suspect because he is carrying on this affair with you behind his wife's back and thus shows through his actions (rather than his words) dishonesty.

I guess to me I don't fully understand it but I feel like he feels immense pressure on his part because I have come to where he lives, done things with his profession, gone places with him, etc. while he hasn't really been around my family or anything.

I'm assuming this is because you are both closeted. If neither of you is willing to come out, I think it's going to be very difficult for either of you to be around the other's family.

I have stated to him that his family will love unconditionally no matter what the circumstances may be.

You have no way of knowing that his family will love him unconditionally.

To altlover85: Thank you as well for your reply. Very insightful but difficult to hear of course.

You're welcome!

He has stated before our relationship really did begin that he has sought out getting a divorce and look for his own place far before we began to know eachother.

Has he actually made any moves in that direction?

I feel bad of course, and have told him that I don't want her to get hurt but he has reassured me there would be no resentment towards me or the situation necessarily.

He reassured you that there would be no resentment towards you or the situation on whose part? His or hers?

Some of the quotes I've picked are simply the ones that seem to not be based on any real reality, but rather are your opinion. I'm trying to get you to see that just because we think something will be the case it doesn't mean that we are correct. We sometimes need to challenge why we think certain things so that we can see things more objectively.

Keep us posted on things and good luck!

 

[bananagoof]

Reading your story I felt you were in a not great situation, but in reading the other comments here I have to agree that there are some pretty big problems, and you stand to be the one who gets hurt the most.

This is the only situation I can imagine where things go well for you. You read this and tell me if this sounds like something that would ever remotely happen, or a wild dream with no basis in reality:

He asks his wife for a divorce, she says she understands and signs without getting upset. You two move in together and tell all your friends and family you are a couple and no one is bothered. He tells his children he's been having sex with someone younger than they are/the same age as they are, and they say they're fine with that.

...to me, that sounds pretty unrealistic. Even IF his wife is fine with the divorce (which is unlikely since NO ONE is okay with divorcing their husband and the father of their children, no matter how far apart they sleep at night), then you still have the issue of the children. There's maybe, MAYBE a 1% chance that they won't mind you sleeping with their Dad. I believe people can be understanding...and I know older men date younger women often...but it's still considered "gross". It almost always makes the older guy look like a creepy pervert taking advantage of a younger person, or the younger person like a naive fool or financial leech.

Bottom line: there will be BIG obstacles ahead if you stay with this guy, and no matter how close you've become...you have to ask yourself if he's really going to choose you over his wife of X years and his children. Will he risk hurting them to be with you, and if he does, will he resent you for it?

I'm not saying he's a bad person or that you are a bad person. I'm just trying to look at the big picture here. If he really wanted to live his life honestly, he'd have already taken steps to leave his wife and prepare his children for the realities of having a gay Dad. If he does it now, YOU are his excuse, his reason...and you'll be the one blamed for the consequences. He's still in denial, still wants to hide. He's not ready for the changes, and you really do have your life ahead of you.

Good luck, and remember not to let your love for him make you do things that you would never do.

 

[TX-Beau]

Yeah, if neither of you are out, there is no honesty here on either of your parts. No one knows you are seeing him, not his wife and kids, not your friends and family.

None of these people even know who the two of you are.

No matter what you think, no matter what he says - you DO NOT know what goes on between him and his wife, you can't. You don't know what he tells her when you're not there, you don't know what's between them. Plus it does't help that just about every cheating man has said he'd leave the wife, but that almost never happens.

Your problems aren't the age issue, that would be fairly straight forward, your problems are the huge levels of dishonesty involving both of you and both of your lives. You won't be able to sustain that. Any hope you have is to start working on being honest about your lives. Otherwise, you'll be tortured until this implodes.

 

[HunterM]

Hi Chris,
You're just starting out in life. Give your boyfriend and yourself space. You should start dating other unattached guys. Don't be in a relationship where you keep giving in to what the other person wants without reciprocation. Otherwise, you will soon lose your own identify, your self-worth. This is where emotional or physical abuse rears its ugly head. It's like a trap.

Save yourself. Find yourself. Go see what's on the other side...to get a perspective. You will be much better off at the end.

 

[Younger4older]

Thank you all for your opinions and advice. They are much appreciated and respected.

 

[Just_Believe18]

You've been given a lot of good advice here. I would echo others to follow what Seasoned has said. You're a smart guy, but you've put yourself in an unhealthy, unhappy situation that is ultimately not going to end well. This man is caught between two worlds, and the revelation of everyone knowing they exist will tear each world apart. When it's all over, his family will never be the same, and neither will you. That's why he's so fearful. He wants to keep the status quo of living a lie. The truth you seek from this relationship will ultimately destroy the bond you have with him. You can't expect him to divorce his wife and tell his kids then expect this healthy, functioning relationship with you.