Would Repub Party win if it wasn't the party of bigotry?

[ReadyWithReadyWit]

Purely hypothetical question here... in the upcoming presidential election, if the American people could only choose between the Democratic platform and a hypothetical Republican platform that combined current conversative economic philosophy with liberal views on social issues, who would win?

I personally think Democratic economic policy is better for the country in the long run; however, this is irrelevant to the question above. The question boils down to the following: in an election where everyone claims the "economy" dominates, are social issues actually what are preventing the the Republican Party from winning? I think so... I think that enough Americans (whether correctly informed or not) would want to try something different economically that this would trump the bigot factor this election. If this is true, it should be a little disconcerting for some Republican sympathizers on this site that your party's bigotry is what could likely keep your candidate out of the White House and his corresponding economic policies on the kitchen table.

Just running out a goofy train of thought in my head... I'm probably just crazy though... let me know what you guys think...

 

[ReadyWithReadyWit]

No, you're not crazy. I see where you are coming from. I just think in America we have two political parties that are right wing. The democrats are right of center, and the republicans are moving so far to the right it's getting scary.

Yeah, I think we have a moderate party and FAR right party. However, I don't think think the average Republican voter has moved further right, just the party. On social issues, the party has been hijacked by a small group of bigots... ironically, much in the same way that the 1% has hijacked political voice in this country. But, these bigotted positions have become a legitimate liability for the party in an evolving society causing it to become more and more out of touch with even its own voters.

 

[Sausy]

Democrats aren't right of center. They've lost the old Southern conservative(now GOP)wing....they do have a moderate/conservative wing but because of conservative(ultraconservative Republican, really)gains even the moderate wing is losing out electorally and the much more European Socialist style progressive wing competes with a milder,pragmatic liberal wing to form an increasingly center left party. We need a true centrist party ..... Democrats are only right of center as a party if you need strong prescription lens. Republicans as a more far right party though these days I'd agree with and it's not good for our country or the world.

 

[ReadyWithReadyWit]

Democrats aren't right of center. They've lost the old Southern conservative(now GOP)wing....they do have a moderate/conservative wing but because of conservative(ultraconservative Republican, really)gains even the moderate wing is losing out electorally and the much more European Socialist style progressive wing competes with a milder,pragmatic liberal wing to form an increasingly center left party. We need a true centrist party ..... Democrats are only right of center as a party if you need strong prescription lens. Republicans as a more far right party though these days I'd agree with and it's not good for our country or the world.

I think it depends on what lens you are looking through. In context of our nation's past, I think the Democratic Party is pretty moderate (and maybe moving left); however, in context of other developed countries, I think it's right of center.

 

[Sausy]

I think it depends on what lens you are looking through. In context of our nation's past, I think the Democratic Party is pretty moderate (and maybe moving left); however, in context of other developed countries, I think it's right of center.

At one time very,very broad....ultraconservative to hard European type leftism. Centrist I'd agree with currently, though slipping left .Republicans though are much sharper right...the middle is virtually gone in their party. I would guess that compared to how conservative parties in Europe are more liberal by our standards especially on the social safety net you and Giancarlo would be correct. I don't think overall their conservative parties are so liberal as to be unrecognizable to some of our conservative tenets. Degree of ideological rigidity though GOP is far more inflexible. I certainly don't approve of such a hard right turn because in its beginnings conservatism always favored evolutionary and slow, gradual adaptation to revolutionary,radical ideological fads and movements.

 

[Benvolio]

After the Civil War, the Republicans became the party of the Northern, mostly protestant majority. The Democrats became an alliance of immigrants, mostly Catholic, and the Southern ant-Republicans.
That has changed some, but Republicans are the party of the assimilated Americans, mostly white, while the Democrats are a collection of minorities. The Democrats have pursued a policy of divisiveness to enlarge its base.It panders to the minorities at the expense of the majority. It discourages assimilation by teaching the blacks and Hispanics that whites hate them. It does everything it can to encourage immigration, and has enacted laws giving preference to diverse groups unlikely to assimilate (green card lottery). It promotes the idea that Republicans are the party of hate, because hate divides the country and is mother's milk to the collection of minorities.

 

[rareboy]

I ask again:

Why do you turn every thread into a diatribe about immigration?

Somehow along the way, the Republican party, which led the fight to abolish slavery and women's suffrage has morphed into the party of Ayn Rand objectivism and radical christian evangelism while the Democrats started finding a social conscience under Roosevelt, Kennedy and Johnson. By the time of Carter and Clinton, the party had become the refuge for everyone either blatantly shut out of the Republican party or who couldn't stand what the Republican party was turning into. It shows how fluid party politics and policies can be.

It is ridiculous to brand the Democrats as only the party of minorities or to say that they are more actively encouraging immigration of groups unlikely to assimilate. You also have no evidence of the absurd claim that Democrats teach the blacks and Hispanics that whites hate them. Throughout the last century, no one actually has to teach any minority about the attitude of conservative whites in America. It is nakedly evident in the history books.

 

[chance1]

Great thread ....

The electorate is simply in 3 camps - it's bigger than that but ....

Dems
Repubs
Indies

Independents now I think are the MAJORITY - they are clearly disaffected prior members of either of the 2

They control elections it appears and therefore a party that has platform beliefs (more so) or dirty little secret beliefs that are bigoted or racist will turn off the reasonable non party acolytes

So, it couldn't hurt with Indies If the Republican platform wasn't impacted by the RR

That said, the RR might start their own party - they probably would actually

The other kicker is that the Dems - short or long term - hard to say - have hitched their wagon to class warfare - demagoguery - it slips off their tongue soooooo easily now - it's sad - the accusation becomes the story - merit is not required

I imagine that the "Republicans are the party of the rich" would just become a bigger focus

The Repubs would have to gin their base up on things other than social issues - it's actually a shame that Ryan's budget or at least the concept of responsible govt. IS NOT the focus - Romney's choice of Ryan has made it so but not sure how long that will last

Biden did his dipsy do "Y'All in chains" rather quickly

Sorry for the ramble - I will do more later

ABSOLUTELY, for this election, if Mittens had some core, if the Repubs were not so wedded (ironic) to the RR, the opponent to Barack Obama would win - by how much I don't know

I picture the electorate like puppets on strings with the likes of David Axelrod and David Plouffe being the master puppeteers when previously that position belonged to Karl Rove

Rareboy's point to a much shorter election cycle in another thread would help alleviate some of the distraction or perhaps the distraction would just be concentrated in a shorter window - either way, a worthwhile experiment

Great thread

 

[Benvolio]

Yeaterday your Vice President accused the Republicans of wanting to put them back in chains. The sort of accusation occurs on a daily basis. The Dems deliberately fan the flames of hatred as a major political too.

 

[portchar1908]

bigotry, hatred, lying, cheating are all critical ingredients in the fabric of the republican party. they have been for decades and decades and that's not going to change.

it's sad.

it's going to be the downfall of our great nation.

after all is said in done in this election, probably 2-4 billion dollars will have been spent.

just think of how much good those dollars could be used to help our nation.

 

[chance1]

bigotry, hatred, lying, cheating are all critical ingredients in the fabric of the republican party. they have been for decades and decades and that's not going to change.

it's sad.

it's going to be the downfall of our great nation.

after all is said in done in this election, probably 2-4 billion dollars will have been spent.

just think of how much good those dollars could be used to help our nation.

it could lead to the downfall of the Republican Party, but not the nation

I believe that faction is getting smaller and smaller - what's getting larger is the coverage by mainstream media and bloggers, many with an agenda of making that faction appear bigger and more powerful - as it fits THEIR agenda of fear and demagoguery

They're coming to get YOU !!!!!

The left needs the religious right to demonize - otherwise they'd have to defend social welfare programs and their financial merit (or lack thereof)

so simply put, the left NEEDS THE RR ON THAT WALL - Luv, please weigh in here

 

[TX-Beau]

"conservatism" in the US is not Conservatism by any definition anyone else uses, and no there is no Liberal party either.

The Right is this country is Neo-fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia dressed up in a frumpy new dress.

They will do themselves in with things like Ben's racist anti-immigration propaganda, their Cults of religious personality, their whoring their used assholes out to whomever can pay, but they are going to do a lot of damage to us along the way.

 

[portchar1908]

Chance, you're a complex dude. all said with lots of luv and respect.

it could lead to the downfall of the Republican Party, but not the nation

I believe that faction is getting smaller and smaller - what's getting larger is the coverage by mainstream media and bloggers, many with an agenda of making that faction appear bigger and more powerful - as it fits THEIR agenda of fear and demagoguery

They're coming to get YOU !!!!!

The left needs the religious right to demonize - otherwise they'd have to defend social welfare programs and their financial merit (or lack thereof)

so simply put, the left NEEDS THE RR ON THAT WALL - Luv, please weigh in here

 

[rareboy]

^ I would suggest that there are a lot of very normal conservatives out there in the US as well that are not happy and even disgusted at what has happened over the last decade or so.

I know many fiscal conservatives who also believe that the government has no business in the bedrooms of the nation.

I know many conservatives who have no problem though with the idea that Government is just the things we do together. They believe that there is a role for regulation in environmental protection, food safety, public health, healthcare and funding infrastructure and education and providing supports for poor, elderly and military personnel.

They may argue vehemently about the 'how' of it and how to make it most cost effective, but they are smart enough to realize that a nation requires a consistent federal as well as local approach to many things in order for them to be able to do business across the country. They also understand that it isn't a good thing to have great inequalities from state to state; it ultimately results in a weak and fragmented federation.

They are a far cry from the radical conservatives who get all the press play time and make all the noise; the demagogues and charlatans who have damaged the 'conservative' brand to the point it now means something unpleasant and threatening, instead of being about standing for the things it used to represent.

 

[TX-Beau]

Well then it's time for them to do something other than being sad and shocked. if you vote for the nutcases, you are part of the problem.

 

[CowboyBob]

Republicans unite around a common theme: fear.

Fear of someone different than you either by color, race, gender, sexual orientation, religion. Fear of the government. Fear of foreigners. Someone is the enemy. The government is coming to take away your guns. The government is coming to take away your money. It's a common theme for the republican party.

Since the only ones who actually benefit from republican policies are a tiny minority (the wealthy) they need to attract large groups to keep themselves relevant and in power. So they create and massage fears and prejudices in people and exploit them for their benefit.

Since Reagan we've witnessed fear against welfare mothers, immigrants, Muslims, homosexuals, government and many others. In the 1950's republicans fear mongered over communists. Since the death of communism they need to find another group to focus on. Homosexuals were a good one because "it says so in the BIBLE!".

Republicans exploit people's fears for power and control. They're the party of greed and corruption of wealthy, white, heterosexual males. That group has always enjoyed "special rights" and they have a fear of sharing power with anyone else. Unfortunately there are many people foolish enough to fall for this and they do. It's those pawns that keep these creatures in power.

 

[ReadyWithReadyWit]

The electorate is simply in 3 camps - it's bigger than that but ....

Dems
Repubs
Indies

Independents now I think are the MAJORITY - they are clearly disaffected prior members of either of the 2

They control elections it appears and therefore a party that has platform beliefs (more so) or dirty little secret beliefs that are bigoted or racist will turn off the reasonable non party acolytes

So, it couldn't hurt with Indies If the Republican platform wasn't impacted by the RR

That said, the RR might start their own party - they probably would actually

The other kicker is that the Dems - short or long term - hard to say - have hitched their wagon to class warfare - demagoguery - it slips off their tongue soooooo easily now - it's sad - the accusation becomes the story - merit is not required

I totally agree with your first two points here.

I think most Independents have a switch in their brain with regard to social issues. They find it unfathomable that a party with rational economic policy would also promote such ludicrous, unreasonable, and hateful positions on social issues and are immediately turned off.

I also am 100% convinced that the RR would split off, which is what makes my scenario purely hypothetical- because my hypothetical Repub Party would obviously lose the election if the RR ran as a third party. The Repubs have anchored themselves to a sinking ship with the diminishing RR; whereas the Dems, for better or worse, have linked themselves to a minority base growing in power.

In terms of class warfare, I think there is a natural (and healthy) ebb and flow of class werfare rhetoric . While Repubs can claim demagoguery, the charge becomes more difficult when the Dems actually have something to stand on... reality. I don't think Dem rhetoric causes class welfare; I think the reality of unprecedented income divergence causes class warfare.

 

[rareboy]

I totally agree with your first two points here.

I think most Independents have a switch in their brain with regard to social issues. They find it unfathomable that a party with rational economic policy would also promote such ludicrous, unreasonable, and hateful positions on social issues and are immediately turned off.

I also am 100% convinced that the RR would split off, which is what makes my scenario purely hypothetical- because my hypothetical Repub Party would obviously lose the election if the RR ran as a third party. The Repubs have anchored themselves to a sinking ship with the diminishing RR; whereas the Dems, for better or worse, have linked themselves to a minority base growing in power.

In terms of class warfare, I think there is a natural (and healthy) ebb and flow of class werfare rhetoric . While Repubs can claim demagoguery, the charge becomes more difficult when the Dems actually have something to stand on... reality. I don't think Dem rhetoric causes class welfare; I think the reality of unprecedented income divergence causes class warfare.
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[MassRuss]

Highlighted for emphasis.

+1 for ReadyWithIt's post.