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X-Men 3: Dark Phoenix- New Visual Effects

  • Thread starter Thread starter malelover1
  • Start date Start date
Sorry, but Singer never planned on using the cosmic Phoenix. Do you really think that a director who tried so hard to ground this series in reality would have used an alien entity to take over Jean's body? Let me try to help you out here. Go back and watch the first movie. Now do you notice the expression on Jean's face when Magneto's machine was destroyed at the end of the film? Singer has stated in many interviews that *that* moment was when the Phoenix started to emerge in Jean's miind. That Magneto's machine had broken the mental blocks in her mind. And then on to X2. Scott talking to Jean at the museum telling her that she has been acting strange since Liberty Island.
That she had to consentrate to lift a book across a room and now when she dreams the whole room shakes. Go on. Take a look. And Dark Phoenix uses psychic fire too. Take a look at the comics.
I don't know where your snippy attitude is coming from, so you can go ahead drop it right now. Regardless of whether or not Signer intended to use the cosmic Phoenix, the point is that he intended to use a version of Phoenix that would have been handled much differently than the one used in X3 visually. In X3, Phoenix is closer to Claremont's original concept--Phoenix is only an alter ego of Jean Grey's mind.

What Singer had set up, what with the giant flaming bird under Lake Alkali, Jean lighting up in psychic fire, her eyes glowing, are all traits of that point to a Phoenix concept closer to that in the comic series, a different entity that embodies the form of a Phoenix.

What we have in X3 is just a case of schizophrenic personality disassociative disorder, one of those personalities giving itself a monicker of 'Phoenix' wholey unrelated to anything that could revive her or focus any kind of universal power through her. It's just what Jean would be if she wasn't afraid to use her powers at all. So I'm sorry, no. Comic Dark Phoenix uses psychic fire because she posseses and actually "is" the Phoenix Force.

Before being posessed by the Phoenix Force, Marvel Girl never exhibited psychic fire, just pink TK energy. Even when the real Jean came back, she never used psychic fire unless she actually harbored the Phoenix Force, it was still her trademark pink TK/TP energy signature.

So my point was that if we're never dealing with a cosmic entity in X3, then it follows suit that they wouldn't give the character graphics that resemble psychic fire, since it's a complete non-sequiter for anyone who isn't aware of what 'Phoenix' means in the comic series. The fact that X2 shows the theme around Jean Grey leading up to her analagous "death" saving the other X-Men, including a big flaming bird at the end points to a cosmic Phoenix.

Even interviews have stated that Singer intended for Phoenix to be the major plotline in X3, followed by Dark Phoenix in X4, which is where I draw my conclusions for Singer's intial ideas for some form of Phoenix that isn't just the unhinged id of Jean Grey.


And while I enjoyed the hell out of X3, I am disappointed because I felt as though with the indications built up by Singer that a) he would have stayed on to tie up the plotlines he had begun or b) that Ratner's team would have picked up where he left off both in storyline and imagery instead of taking a hard turn to something else.

If it was never Singer's intent to harbor a cosmic Phoenix, then he better have had a damn good reason behind the bird and the fire, because anyone who isn't an X-Men fan wouldn't understand how Jean being a strong telekinetic/psychic would ever lead to her being a pyrokinetic who suddenly likes gigantic birds. Psychic fire only made sense in the context of an actual firebird, and would only continue to make sense afterwards if used as a psychic illusion (such as Jean just casting psychic illusions that fit her history as the Phoenix). As I don't think Singer's detached from his audience, I can either assume that he would explain why Jean likes to cast psychic illusions of herself surrounded by a big bird and on fire, or that he'd be writing in something that actually explains why Jean was on fire, such as the Phoenix Force. The latter makes the most sense to me.
 
For me, the Dark Phoenix saga was the best storyline the comic book industry ever put out. So, for them to have pissed all over the mythology is inexcusable. So, X-Men 3 ended up comparable to getting kitty litter in your mouth.

My thoughts exactly!!!!!! Could not have said it better!!!
 
I don't know where your snippy attitude is coming from, so you can go ahead drop it right now. Regardless of whether or not Signer intended to use the cosmic Phoenix, the point is that he intended to use a version of Phoenix that would have been handled much differently than the one used in X3 visually. In X3, Phoenix is closer to Claremont's original concept--Phoenix is only an alter ego of Jean Grey's mind.

What Singer had set up, what with the giant flaming bird under Lake Alkali, Jean lighting up in psychic fire, her eyes glowing, are all traits of that point to a Phoenix concept closer to that in the comic series, a different entity that embodies the form of a Phoenix.

What we have in X3 is just a case of schizophrenic personality disassociative disorder, one of those personalities giving itself a monicker of 'Phoenix' wholey unrelated to anything that could revive her or focus any kind of universal power through her. It's just what Jean would be if she wasn't afraid to use her powers at all. So I'm sorry, no. Comic Dark Phoenix uses psychic fire because she posseses and actually "is" the Phoenix Force.

Before being posessed by the Phoenix Force, Marvel Girl never exhibited psychic fire, just pink TK energy. Even when the real Jean came back, she never used psychic fire unless she actually harbored the Phoenix Force, it was still her trademark pink TK/TP energy signature.

So my point was that if we're never dealing with a cosmic entity in X3, then it follows suit that they wouldn't give the character graphics that resemble psychic fire, since it's a complete non-sequiter for anyone who isn't aware of what 'Phoenix' means in the comic series. The fact that X2 shows the theme around Jean Grey leading up to her analagous "death" saving the other X-Men, including a big flaming bird at the end points to a cosmic Phoenix.

Even interviews have stated that Singer intended for Phoenix to be the major plotline in X3, followed by Dark Phoenix in X4, which is where I draw my conclusions for Singer's intial ideas for some form of Phoenix that isn't just the unhinged id of Jean Grey.


And while I enjoyed the hell out of X3, I am disappointed because I felt as though with the indications built up by Singer that a) he would have stayed on to tie up the plotlines he had begun or b) that Ratner's team would have picked up where he left off both in storyline and imagery instead of taking a hard turn to something else.

If it was never Singer's intent to harbor a cosmic Phoenix, then he better have had a damn good reason behind the bird and the fire, because anyone who isn't an X-Men fan wouldn't understand how Jean being a strong telekinetic/psychic would ever lead to her being a pyrokinetic who suddenly likes gigantic birds. Psychic fire only made sense in the context of an actual firebird, and would only continue to make sense afterwards if used as a psychic illusion (such as Jean just casting psychic illusions that fit her history as the Phoenix). As I don't think Singer's detached from his audience, I can either assume that he would explain why Jean likes to cast psychic illusions of herself surrounded by a big bird and on fire, or that he'd be writing in something that actually explains why Jean was on fire, such as the Phoenix Force. The latter makes the most sense to me.


I'm going to stop arguing here because it seems that the facts of what singer was planning for Phoenix (which are stated in plenty of interviews) will never get through to you. If you would just do some research you will find out for youself instead of clinging onto what you *think* Singer was going for. I believe he mentions a bit of it on the X-Men 1.5 comentary.
 
For me, the Dark Phoenix saga was the best storyline the comic book industry ever put out. So, for them to have pissed all over the mythology is inexcusable. So, X-Men 3 ended up comparable to getting kitty litter in your mouth.


I have said this before and I will state it one last time...

Chris Claremont, The LEGEND who wrote the original Dark Phoenix Saga, made a guest appearance in the 3rd movie... now coming from a logical stand point... if you created something so powerful it's considered to be one of the best stories in comic history, and someone destroyed it, would you be willing to appear in said destruction?

Trying to make the Dark Phoenix Saga as it was in the comics which spanned 37 months of writing, A mad alien emperor, a cosmic entity, and so much time in space.... would have resulted in an epic movie probably longer than Lord of the rings.....

I think it was handled well in the medium they had... each incarnation of X-Men outside the comic continuity is completely different and shouldn't be viewed as something to be directly taken from the comics.... Look at the first cartoon series... that was nowhere near the original story but is pretty well loved ( even though it had shitty animation)

X3 had so much going for it as opposed to the first one which had so many glaring errors it wasn't even funny...

Although as an avid X-men fan for the past 20 years I enjoyed all 3 movies for what they were and that was a chance to see my favourite characters come to life....
 
Although as an avid X-men fan for the past 20 years I enjoyed all 3 movies for what they were and that was a chance to see my favourite characters come to life....
I agree, in that X3 was probably the only one of the three that had action the way I wanted to see it on film. However, I do admit (despite my fierce history defending it) that the stories could have been handled, even with so many on hand, much better given that the movie itself was so unnecessarily short. As well, Phoenix could have been handled in a lot of ways that weren't so sloppy, such as, if we want to mention the previous films, carrying over the energy signature she had in the second film. Stewart talking about the cucoon of TK energy, while more or less accurate to the comics, was phrased so matter-of-factly that I heard everyone in the audience who probably wasn't a comic fan snicker or laugh or went "uh...okay" and I almost agreed with them. Not to mention character negligence on the parts of Kitty, Peter, and Warren. It was hard to care about them all as a team.

It's still the one that has the best action of the three and the most varied (and true to comic) use of mutant powers, but it certainly felt rushed to me. In a way, of course, it was, and I only lament it for what it could have been if more time and resources had been given to it. The trade off between what Superman Returns ended up being and what X3 could have been definitely didn't make up for it.
 
wow that was awsome! I wish they would've had all that "fire glow" in the movie.
 
Well open your eyes, he said MOVIE VERSE. So one would think he meant the series as a whole.

Stupid little goat man. You just admitted that there was no true Pheonix, only a supressed personality.

Fallen: Idiot. And just how many good books have Claremont written since then? He's nothing now but a dirty old man who'll do anything for a paycheck - - including appearing at a low-brow crapfest called X3.
 
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