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15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Election

Re: 15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Elec

Colorado and Nevada could very well decide the fate of the country, this year. That is where most of my focus is on. If Obama can take one of them, he will likely win.
 
Re: 15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Elec

Yeah, I know Snappy started this thread with his 15 states...but, mine are the 6 states bolded above. I'm a little surprised that NH has morphed back into that group. (I'm also surprised that Romney wasn't the VP since he has a home in NH, and is an asset in MI, CO, and NV).

Playing with those electoral votes, if I go ahead and give Colorado to McCain, but switch Nevada back to Obama (both are certainly highly possible), we have a 269-269 tie.

Of the 6 states,

Tier 1 Battlegrounds: Colorado, Nevada, New Hampshire, Ohio
Tier 2 Battlegrounds: New Mexico, Virginia,

Then, there are the Tier 3's: Michigan, Florida, Montana, Iowa, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, North Carolina

Neither candidate, of course, can afford to let up in MI, FL, and PA....and Palin will help with all the 'God, Gays & Guns' Repubs in some of those key states.
 
Re: 15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Elec

McCain has certainly gotten plenty of media hype out of the choice. It seems like it's received far more coverage than Obama's traditonal choice in Biden. And everytime I see these liberals on TV disparage her, I just cringe because they're shooting themselves in the foot. They are making her a sympathetic figure everytime they bash this sweet beauty queen mother of 5. The Dems on TV need to chill, and stay focused on McCain.

I couldn't agree more. They need to focus a little more on the troopergate story and see if it has legs. With her stance as a reformer this could be a possible liability.
 
Re: 15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Elec

So, who which of the 4 candidates do most American voters want to personally meet? Who do they find most interesting? Rasmussen polled that very question....

Overall
Obama - 43%
Palin -- 30%
McCain -- 17%
Biden -- 6%

Men
Obama -- 39%
Palin -- 31%
McCain -- 18%
Biden -- 6%

Women
Obama -- 47%
Palin -- 29%
McCain --16%
Biden -- 6%

Republicans
Palin -- 51%
McCain --32%
Obama -- 9%

Democrats
Obama -- 69%
Palin -- 14%
Biden -- 9%
McCain -- 6%

Poor Joe, nobody cares to get to know him...
 
Re: 15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Elec

^^Given the margin of error, it is a virtual tie.

That is not good for Obama this soon after the convention.
 
Re: 15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Elec

Obama is tracking very nicely now in most of the national polls...we'll have to see after the GOP convention what kind of bounce the MacMan receives. Hopefully, more state polls will be coming once everything settles down.

One thing to ponder....we know from recent histories that some folks will tell a pollster what they want to hear and then do the opposite. This has been esp. true where minority candidates are involved. In other words, tell the pollster that they'll vote for the black guy on the phone, but at the voting, you pull the lever for the white guy.

So, I wonder what % of a poll result should take into account this phenomenon. I've heard several people talk about this recently. Myself...I'm not sure these polling lies still occur. Certainly, by now, most people have grown so accustomed to Obama running that I'm not sure why they would feel compelled to lie about NOT voting for him. Two years ago, people in Tennessee felt like the last polls before the Harold Ford/Bob Corker senate race were wrong when they showed Ford trailing by a couple of points. The conventional wisdom said that people were lying and that this southern state would be a landslide win for Corker. Turns out, the polls were dead-on and Ford barely lost.

Any opinions... if we have a Nov. 1st national (or state) poll with Obama up by 2-3 points, will you view that as an ominonous sign that points to a McCain victory?
 
Re: 15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Elec

^^This was part of what I was referring to in my last post.

There will be a significant "hidden racism" factor.

It's now past Labor day.

If his percentages don't rise soon he's finished.

Unless McCain pulls a real blooper, all he has to do is appear presidential for 6 or 7 weeks. The attack ads against Obama will do the rest.

Of course, if McCain really screws up in the debates, that would change things. But I wouldn't bet on that happening.
 
Re: 15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Elec

One thing to ponder....we know from recent histories that some folks will tell a pollster what they want to hear and then do the opposite. This has been esp. true where minority candidates are involved. In other words, tell the pollster that they'll vote for the black guy on the phone, but at the voting, you pull the lever for the white guy.

So, I wonder what % of a poll result should take into account this phenomenon. I've heard several people talk about this recently. Myself...I'm not sure these polling lies still occur. Certainly, by now, most people have grown so accustomed to Obama running that I'm not sure why they would feel compelled to lie about NOT voting for him. Two years ago, people in Tennessee felt like the last polls before the Harold Ford/Bob Corker senate race were wrong when they showed Ford trailing by a couple of points. The conventional wisdom said that people were lying and that this southern state would be a landslide win for Corker. Turns out, the polls were dead-on and Ford barely lost.

Any opinions... if we have a Nov. 1st national (or state) poll with Obama up by 2-3 points, will you view that as an ominonous sign that points to a McCain victory?

I'm inclined to agree with you. The Bradley race that is generally mentioned in connection to lying to pollsters as a cover for racism was, what, 25 years ago? Society is different now.

As to the Nov. 1st scenario, I think it depends on the direction the campaign had been moving in during the previous ten days or so. It would also depend on whether the close poll looked like an outlier.
 
Re: 15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Elec

Finally, a few new STATE polls...all conducted over the Labor Day weekend.

OHIO -- Obama +2 -- CNN -- A tiny bounce in the all-important Buckeye state for Obama.

MINNESOTA -- Obama +12 -- CNN -- Important lead in the Northstar State for Obama...will see now if the GOP get a bounce from hosting their convention here.

NORTH CAROLINA -- McCain +3 -- Greenberg -- The Tarheel State (aka The Consistency State) is once again at McCain +3...the numbers just never move here.

IOWA -- Obama +15 -- CNN -- An astonishingly huge lead for Obama in the Hawkeye State...right now, inclined to categorize this poll as an outlier.
 
Re: 15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Elec

My gut tells me that Nevada will be close, but will break for McCain. Likewise for Florida and North Carolina. Ohio will be close and I haven't a clue who will win it yet. Polls are just too tight there. Virginia and Colorado could decide this election. Obama has held a slight lead in Virginia for most of the summer. If he can turn out his vote - as he has shown the ability to do - he will win Virginia. Colorado is just too tight for me to say much more about it at the moment.

My surprises continue to be that Obama is even competitive in North Carolina, Montana, and even North Dakota, and that McCain isn't really close to flipping any of the Kerry 2004 states.
 
Re: 15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Elec

Sept. 4, 2008 | Right now, I'm thinking this.…

With a John McCain win, he mirrors the 2000 Bush Electoral College: 278 (Bush had 271, then-reflective of the 1990s Census). McCain doesn't come across—at least not yet—as really having the chops to win over the electorate and pick off the industrial states.

Truth be told, I'm sticking with predicting Barack Obama to win the presidency. He would do so by starting off in retaining all of John Kerry's 2004 states (the three previous, presidential party pickups retained their party's losing candidates' states from the election just prior). Obama would add to Kerry's cumulative 252 electoral votes of states by first winning back Iowa, 7, and New Mexico, 5; they voted for Al Gore in 2000 and Bush in 2004.

Obama would reach the winning 270 mark by picking up at least two of the three leading bellwethers: Ohio, 20, and Nevada, 5. Never in history between Republican and Democratic matchups—and this dates back to 1856 (Abe Lincoln was the first Republican winner, in 1860, and won all three bellwethers at the same time Nev. first had the vote in his 1864 re-election)—has the winning candidate failed to carry those two plus that third of the leading bellwethers, Missouri, 11. Speaking of which, no Democratic president has won election while failing to carry Mo. or Virginia. If a winning Obama fails to carry Mo., then he'll pick up Virginia, 13—a major feat because it is one of eleven states that has voted for the GOP in all of the previous ten elections (1968-2004). (Additional note: Of the last four Democratic presidents—John F. Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, Jimmy Carter, and Bill Clinton—two of them failed to carry all three leading bellwethers. Kennedy lost Ohio in 1960 to Richard Nixon. Carter lost Nev. in 1976 to Gerald Ford. If Obama wins the election but loses his neighboring Mo., it would also be on par with the fact that the Show-Me State last voted for the loser—in this case, John McCain—in 1956. They've been on a roll since 1904, voting only once for the loser—52 years after the hot streak began. And, here we are, 52 years after Mo. backed Adlai Stevenson in his failed rematch with Dwight Eisenhower. If Mo. does indeed end up in a prevailing Obama's win column, Mo. would be the last of the three to go along, if you catch my drift, with Nev. and Ohio. Stay tuned.)

Keep an eye on Colorado and Montana. As I have mentioned in this thread, their voting record has been identical over the last 15 elections (1948-2004). Both polling as toss-ups, I believe however they'll vote in 2008 will once again be the same. (Fact: In those past 15 elections, Colo. and Mont. voted for Democrats only three times—Harry Truman [1948], Lyndon Johnson [1964], and Bill Clinton [1992]—and all were candidates who won their elections.)

And having mentioned this before, Florida and/or Georgia have been in Democratic presidents' win columns over the last 25 elections (1908-2004). Winning both Fla. and Ga. were: Woodrow Wilson (1912, 1916); Franklin D. Roosevelt (1932, 1936, 1940, 1944); Harry Truman (1948); and Jimmy Carter (1976). Winning Ga. was John F. Kennedy (1960). Winning Fla. was Lyndon Johnson (1964). Winning them both—separately—was Bill Clinton (Ga., in 1992; Fla., in 1996). Anyone checking out the polling knows that if Obama wins the election, he's more apt to carry Fla. than Ga. in this election year.

I'll end it here; but it is interesting to note that between the Carolinas and Dakotas it is the Norths that leave the Republicans more vulnerable. This is going to get even more interesting over the next two months—leading all the way to Election Day.
 
Re: 15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Elec

Any further thoughts on whether Obama can grab Florida?

Florida is obviously the big Holy Grail that can almost guarantee victory, and it is statistically a toss-up - But the Dems always seem to write FL off in favor of countering those whopping 27 votes elsewhere.

Why is this, when Florida (to me, anyway) seems so close on paper? It also has, coincidentally, the largest black population 2nd only to New York. Any talk out there about whether enthusiasm among minorities in Jacksonville will be enough to tip FL into Obama's column?

Is there a resistance to "going there" with FL, after the debacles in 2000 & 2004?
 
Re: 15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Elec

New polling from North Dakota ...

Obama (D) 43
McCain (R) 40

Obama continues to poll strongly here, and I continue to be optimistic for this state to be a Democratic pickup.

New polling from Ohio ....

Obama (D) 47
McCain (R) 45



With third-party candidates:
Obama (D) 45
McCain (R) 44
Nader (I) 5
Barr (L) 2

McKinney (G) 1



This is still too close to call for me. Obama has slipped here and I'm not sure if that trend will continue or not.



Minnesota

Obama (D) 53
McCain (R) 41



Obama (D) 51
McCain (R) 37
Nader (I) 4
Barr (L) 2
McKinney (G) 1



Easy Democratic win here.



Iowa

Obama (D) 55
McCain (R) 40



Obama (D) 51
McCain (R) 38
Nader (I) 4
Barr (L) 3
McKinney (G) 2



Easy Obama win in Iowa.



New polling from North Carolina ...

McCain (R) 47
Obama (D) 44

Everytime I feel tempted to throw North Carolina into the McCain column I pause and then see a close poll. The fact that North Carolina is this close this late tells us something about the changing demographic in the Golden Triangle.
 
Re: 15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Elec

Any further thoughts on whether Obama can grab Florida?

Florida is obviously the big Holy Grail that can almost guarantee victory, and it is statistically a toss-up - But the Dems always seem to write FL off in favor of countering those whopping 27 votes elsewhere.

Why is this, when Florida (to me, anyway) seems so close on paper? It also has, coincidentally, the largest black population 2nd only to New York. Any talk out there about whether enthusiasm among minorities in Jacksonville will be enough to tip FL into Obama's column?

I expect the Florida turn-out will be larger than usual what with Obama's voter registration efforts and a DOMA initiative. Both factors make Florida even more of a toss-up than it usually is.
 
Re: 15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Elec

I just don't see Florida going with Obama. I've got Florida in the McCain column.
 
Re: 15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Elec

A couple of new polls:

ALASKA -- McCain +24 -- United -- McCain cruising in the Last Frontier.

INDIANA --McCain +2 -- Howey Polling -- This poll was done of Aug 29/30, the two days following the DNC.

As I posted in #307, I've pretty much decided this election will hinge on 6 states: CO, NM, NV, VA, OH and NH. Colorado is the ultimate swing. I've got NM and NH going Obama; and VA, OH, and NV going McCain. CO...who knows?

Otherwise, the other states will resume their tradition reds and blues.
 
Re: 15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Elec

Sammie, something tells me that you'll regret putting Virginia with the McCain column!
 
Re: 15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Elec

Sammie, something tells me that you'll regret putting Virginia with the McCain column!


I'm making that 'conclusion' based on: a) 4 of the last 6 polls in VA favor McCain b) there was alot of Obama interest in VA because so many Veep candidates were from there (Webb, Warner, Kaine), but that's out the window now c) its red state history d) McCain sells well in VA due to the DC area interest in defense and e) Palin will fire up the rural, mountain regions of VA that previously voted Hillary...these people are cultural Repubs and econ Dems.
 
Re: 15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Elec

A problem with some of the analyses is here: For those predicting a Barack Obama win, they keep thinking in the Electoral College it would be so narrow a victory that Obama will be in the 270s (or 280s at best). I see the narrow victory in the U.S. popular vote. But in all honesty, not greater than 5 points. And not necessarily smaller than 2 points. This Electoral College guessing of Obama win is underestimated (and that the Illinois senator will be healthily over 300).

I think it would be more decisive, that some of the key states routinely determining election winners (Ohio and Florida not splitting but agreeing) would fall in line with the winner, because of the history of some states—like leading bellwethers Missouri, Nevada, and Ohio—in adding them to a likely hold by Obama of John Kerry's 2004 states. (Again, we've never had the winner fail to carry a single state among those three top bellwethers. They're crucial pieces to stringing together an Electoral College victory.)

I've mentioned the Florida/Georgia Democratic presidents' connection over the last 100 years (25 elections). To dismiss Fla. as a natural John McCain hold—because it's tough to envision Obama snagging it—I think is a mistake. Ga. somewhat the same (polling isn't as strong for Obama there)…yet in predicting Obama to win—oh, boy, I'm amazed people underestimate that potential. How this would translate in what states Obama would move. I keep saying it, and will say it again…if Obama wins, both Fla. and Ga. will not remain in the GOP camp. At least one of them—more likely Fla. than Ga.—would make the switch from red to blue.

I've mentioned that Virginia and Missouri being lost by a Democrat has historically added up to a Republican victory—so it would be wiser to predict not both being lost this year (if we are to see a prevailing Obama). Otherwise, if you're gonna forecast both states to remain red…predict McCain to win Election 2008.

And something even I've previously failed to mention: reports over the past few months show that registered Democrats are now outnumbering Republicans in a few states—in this current 2008—by comparison to four years ago. Florida and Nevada are two that stand out. This is a reversal of fortune.

If I were to predict McCain, the pressure is on him to hold all of George W. Bush's 2000 and/or 2004 states (yeah, that would be a case of the Maverick assured victory in New Hampshire), requiring the Arizona senator to not lose Ohio (no GOP president has won the election without it!). McCain would also secure both of Ohio's fellow bellwethers, Missouri and Nevada. Florida (and Georgia) would stay red. Virginia, too, of course. And Colorado and Montana would remain red once again.

Would a McCain victory involve picking off industrial states like Michigan and Pennsylvania? Not when considering the Republicans are currently in power and both states are suffering economically. Especially my home state Mich. If McCain were to really win over the electorate—alright, both would move. Ah, but had current president Bush been a great leader, back in 2004 they would've moved (so, too, a lot of other states that have gone to the Democrats ever since Bill Clinton won them over in 1992). Mich.'s and Pa.'s voting record is nearly identical over the last ten elections (1968-2004), disagreeing only in 1976 (Mich. backed native son Gerald Ford; Pa. went with winner Jimmy Carter). The state of Washington has agreed with Mich. in all ten except 1988 (going for Michael Dukakis while Mich. backed winner George Bush). That's just three (two that are industrial). Anyone believing any of the three will move to the GOP camp? Anyone laughing at the question? (Take a look at the polls: In this tug of war over the 2008 Electoral College, in whose direction do we notice a movement of any of the battleground states?)

No, a McCain win would be the narrow Electoral College victory of 2008—you know, the unhealthy result. A forced, divisive, Bush-like Electoral College result…that amounts to a third consecutive election nightmare.

As I have pointed out before: In five previous elections—spanning 60 years' time—we had dealt with a terrible economy and/or an unpopular war. (1932: Great Depression/Prohibition. 1952: Korean War. 1968: Vietnam War. 1980: Inflation. 1992: Recession. I'm not certain whether any polling was done back then, but surely the incumbent president had low voter approval.) And in each of those elections, not once did we reward the incumbent political party with the White House for the following four years.
 
Re: 15 States to Watch in the US Presidential Elec

As I have pointed out before: In five previous elections—spanning 60 years' time—we had dealt with a terrible economy and/or an unpopular war. (1932: Great Depression/Prohibition. 1952: Korean War. 1968: Vietnam War. 1980: Inflation. 1992: Recession. I'm not certain whether any polling was done back then, but surely the incumbent president had low voter approval.) And in each of those elections, not once did we reward the incumbent political party with the White House for the following four years.

Now that's a telling point!
All these juggling figures of states for a basketful of reasons just gets confusing and seems like so much crystal-ball gazing.
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But the comparison of parallel situations has more a feel of substance.
 
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